Is it too far?

[Supernaut]

My Cousin should be executed for molesting my sister and his sister, also my cousins husband for molesting his 5 children!
And we don't know how many more they savagely raped and mentally abused or scared! So yes even my own! Wrong is wrong!
We where betrayed "ALL" of us! They betrayed our trust!

Another reminder this is premeditated!

The reminder did not escape me. It seems you are a bit quick to issue death upon others even unto your own children. Is there no room for rehabilitation? No room for transformation through the Holy Spirit?

 

[Blackmarch]

Hypothetical scenario here.

Gentleman comes to Church asking to be allowed in. Sounds ok right? You then find out that he has been arrested and awaiting trial for child molestation. Even though he has not been found guilty, your skin crawls at the idea of anyone doing harm to a child. You tell him that you will get back to him.

You approach your Church council/congregation with the gentlemans request. There are mixed feelings from the congregation. Eventually everyone seems to agree to allow the gentleman in with strict access, including a chaperone to would follow him around.

What would you do? Would you give the final yay/nay?

Would you preserve the "safety" of the congregation and tell him no? Turn him away?

Would you let compassion win and allow him in (under above stated guidelines) at least until the completion of the trial?

Would you ask, "What would Jesus do?" ?


One need not be Christian to respond.

What i'd do...

First if he was the one that let me or someone in authority know about his arrest and etc.. then I'd be willing to let him in.


If he didn't, and I found out by other means, then I would triple check with authorities to confirm that (and to let them know where he was and to get additional advice... if the the authorities left any instructions regarding him then those would be followed)- and if it turns out to be the case then I'd confronthim privately about it, if he confesses to it then I might be willing to let him stay there... if not then I'd probably give him the boot.


I'd tell him that he could not participate or be in or the childrens' areas and that there would be someone to keep an eye out in those areas.. or on him the time he was there (then designate a person or do it myself due to privacy issues).

 

[allhart]

The reminder did not escape me. It seems you are a bit quick to issue death upon others even unto your own children. Is there no room for rehabilitation? No room for transformation through the Holy Spirit?

Look man these rapes will effect generations and it's proven they always do it again! Most of them think they aren't doing anything wrong, also don't judge me until you walk in my shoes. In my family we know the devastation! For premeditated murder you lose your life. In death or in prison! This is on logical thinking towards premeditated child rape. We can trust them, nor can we ever. My friends daughters coach raped her and had an affair with his wife! I have no sympathy or patience for these sick'os. They are predators! Ravaging our innocent and weak willed!

 

[allhart]

Eastern country's show public shame for theft. They cut the thief's hand off and it's the hand they would shake yours with. For shaking another hand with the one you wipe your behind with is an insult! Is there no public shame anymore? I don't care about these guy's feelings. I want to protect our children or women (generation-ally) For children raped or women, instill in their children anger and fear! Even unintentionally!

 

[Zaac]

Hypothetical scenario here.

Gentleman comes to Church asking to be allowed in. Sounds ok right? You then find out that he has been arrested and awaiting trial for child molestation. Even though he has not been found guilty, your skin crawls at the idea of anyone doing harm to a child. You tell him that you will get back to him.

Get back to him about what? He wants to come to Church, he should be allowed to come to Church. I'd much rather he be at church than on a playground or someplace that people weren't loving him and encouraging him to follow Christ and HIS way.

You approach your Church council/congregation with the gentlemans request. There are mixed feelings from the congregation. Eventually everyone seems to agree to allow the gentleman in with strict access, including a chaperone to would follow him around.

Approach them for what? It's a Church. He can come to our church. He doesn't have to get approval.

What would you do? Would you give the final yay/nay?

It's God's Church, not mine. There is no yay/nay to give. The House of the Lord is open to all sinners.

Would you preserve the "safety" of the congregation and tell him no? Turn him away?

What safety? We're not placing him in daycare. He's comeing to Church, hopefully , to be saved if he is not, and to fellowship and worship with the Saints if he is.

Would you let compassion win and allow him in (under above stated guidelines) at least until the completion of the trial?

I don't even see why compassion is an issue. It's Church. He wants to come to Church. What's the problem?

Would you ask, "What would Jesus do?"

I already know what Jesus would do. He'd give up his seat and let the gentleman have it.

One need not be Christian to respond.

But one does need to be a CHristian to know why such a thing is moot amongst mature Christians.

 

[allhart]

Get back to him about what? He wants to come to Church, he should be allowed to come to Church. I'd much rather he be at church than on a playground or someplace that people weren't loving him and encouraging him to follow Christ and HIS way.



Approach them for what? It's a Church. He can come to our church. He doesn't have to get approval.



It's God's Church, not mine. There is no yay/nay to give. The House of the Lord is open to all sinners.



What safety? We're not placing him in daycare. He's comeing to Church, hopefully , to be saved if he is not, and to fellowship and worship with the Saints if he is.



I don't even see why compassion is an issue. It's Church. He wants to come to Church. What's the problem?



I already know what Jesus would do. He'd give up his seat and let the gentleman have it.




But one does need to be a CHristian to know why such a thing is moot amongst mature Christians.

In asking or in discussion. There is a time and place for everything, correct? And there should be consequence for premeditated actions, right, logically thinking? I also wonder about child molesters asking society to forgive once they are caught? They can't be trusted and is it not our job to protect the innocent, our children?
There is no public shame and who knows to be mindful of Dr's, teachers, coaches and many other so called nice people? First time shame on them second time shame on you!

 

[Zaac]

In asking or in discussion. There is a time and place for everything, correct? And there should be consequence for premeditated actions, right, logically thinking? I also wonder about child molesters asking society to forgive once they are caught? They can't be trusted and is it not our job to protect the innocent, our children?
There is no public shame and who knows to be mindful of Dr's, teachers, coaches and many other so called nice people? First time shame on them second time shame on you!

Nobody is saying be stupid. But His question is basically should the man be allowed to come to Church?

Is this not akin to the principle of not showing favoritism as mentioned in James 2? Would we treat a billionaire this way if he wanted to come to church? Would that be put to a vote?

why on earth would it ever be an issue if someone shows an interest in getting right with God?

 

[keith99]

I start from a position of confusion. Is Los Angeles different from the rset of the world? I can walk into just about any Church here and just sit down and listen to the preacher. I can choose to contribute to the offering or not. I can leave after the service or mingle as I see fit (which would not include walking into the area where children are away from thier parents).

Having pointed this out can anyone here see the obvious? The man did not have to say this, he did not have to tell anyone. I can think of only 2 reasons for him to bring this up. It is either a call for help, a desire to be honest which implies a concern for the Church in question or a bit of each.

That make it pretty obvious to me that the next step is just 2 words.

Let's talk.

In a talk much can be decided. He can be made aware of real concerns. If the Church is Christian in any meaningful way it does have a concern for this man, but it also has a concern for the existing members of the Church. There are many things to consider.

How to work something out that protects the existing members and also allows this sinner (sinner in any case, all fall short) to work out his salvation in fear and trembling. I do not want to call it conditions, that has the ring of one side dictating the rules. Instead this should be a situation where both sides agree.

One ideal that comes to mind is attending only late night services and ideally joining a fellowship group that the man in question can feel safe sharing things with. (And a group the pastor knows will will not talk, yet not miinimize things if he is in fact a molester and ideally will help him avoid temptation and lead him away from it is he takes a wrong step).

Of course a lot depends on exactly how that first talk goes.

 

[allhart]

Nobody is saying be stupid. But His question is basically should the man be allowed to come to Church?

Is this not akin to the principle of not showing favoritism as mentioned in James 2? Would we treat a billionaire this way if he wanted to come to church? Would that be put to a vote?

why on earth would it ever be an issue if someone shows an interest in getting right with God?

I or no one saying they can't get right with God, (for no one know another mans heart) but what I am saying is they can't get right with us in society. They can't ever gain back our trust! Molesters need to be Identifiable in society, obviously, visually, marked for life!

 

[Hentenza]

I or no one saying they can't get right with God, (for no one know another mans heart) but what I am saying is they can't get right with us in society. They can't ever gain back our trust! Molesters need to be Identifiable in society, obviously, visually, marked for life!

The person in the example by the OP has not yet gone to trial. Are you presuming guilt?

Second, branded a sex offender is being used by the judicial system for offenses that should not be. For instance, the new prosecution of young adults for texting suggestive pictures. It would be horrible for someone like this to be branded a sex offender for the rest of their life.

Third, some that are branded sex offenders are not one. I personally know a person that was convicted of a sexual offense against their own child solely on the testimony of his vindictive ex-wife. He is still fighting the charges.

Where do you draw the line? It seems that you want to clump them all together regardless of circumstance.

Everyone needs Christ and the church is the best place to find Him. The church is for sinners. All sinners.

 

[visionary]

Since he did ask, he should be given special considerations, notifications to parents [heads-up], restrictions regarding access to where children are and offer of consultation with the Pastor.

 

[Supernaut]

Look man these rapes will effect generations and it's proven they always do it again! Most of them think they aren't doing anything wrong, also don't judge me until you walk in my shoes. In my family we know the devastation! For premeditated murder you lose your life. In death or in prison! This is on logical thinking towards premeditated child rape. We can trust them, nor can we ever. My friends daughters coach raped her and had an affair with his wife! I have no sympathy or patience for these sick'os. They are predators! Ravaging our innocent and weak willed!

I have first hand experience with this very matter. I know personally the effects it can have on people. I also know how crippling anger and rage can be to oneself. Forgiveness is always the better route to take. Not always easy....but it is possible. Give all things up to God and let go.

You are absolutely right I have not walked in your shoes but, I have walked in my own.

 

[Supernaut]

Eastern country's show public shame for theft. They cut the thief's hand off and it's the hand they would shake yours with. For shaking another hand with the one you wipe your behind with is an insult! Is there no public shame anymore? I don't care about these guy's feelings. I want to protect our children or women (generation-ally) For children raped or women, instill in their children anger and fear! Even unintentionally!

Good thing we are in western culture over here right? Lets try to stick to that instead of veering off to comparisons to other unrelated cultures.

 

[allhart]

I have first hand experience with this very matter. I know personally the effects it can have on people. I also know how crippling anger and rage can be to oneself. Forgiveness is always the better route to take. Not always easy....but it is possible. Give all things up to God and let go.

You are absolutely right I have not walked in your shoes but, I have walked in my own.

What about protecting them children? Forgiveness is one I can and have done, but that doesn't change their behavior or the trust factor!
As I have stated I or you can't know their hearts only God can, so we must be proactive towards protecting the helpless, however; in my opinion they deserve life in prison or even death depending on the severity of the crime. For molesting is premeditated!
Make harsh justice and the rest of the pedophiles will think twice or you have them all moving to the state Vermont for the lean-yet verdicts!

 

[Supernaut]

What about protecting them children? Forgiveness is one I can and have done, but that doesn't change their behavior or the trust factor!
As I have stated I or you can't know their hearts only God can, so we must be proactive towards protecting the helpless, however; in my opinion they deserve life in prison or even death depending on the severity of the crime. For molesting is premeditated!
Make harsh justice and the rest of the pedophiles will think twice or you have them all moving to the state Vermont for the lean-yet verdicts!

I agree that protecting society is a must. In this situation though, the person is not yet proven guilty. He would also be kept to a minimum of Church activities. He would also be chaperoned. Ultimately, he would be kept as far away from children as possible.

Precautions have been set in place. As for the potential outcome of the verdict upon trial completion, only time will tell.

 

[allhart]

I agree that protecting society is a must. In this situation though, the person is not yet proven guilty. He would also be kept to a minimum of Church activities. He would also be chaperoned. Ultimately, he would be kept as far away from children as possible.

Precautions have been set in place. As for the potential outcome of the verdict upon trial completion, only time will tell.

For this case o.k. You are innocent until proven guilty.....,However; he comes to the Lord I'm happy for Him, but for the victim and society there is a debt to be paid! Saved or not actions have consequences and society needs to call down justice in its rightful place. This is a heinous crime!

 

[Supernaut]

For this case o.k. You are innocent until proven guilty.....,However; he comes to the Lord I'm happy for Him, but for the victim and society there is a debt to be paid! Saved or not actions have consequences and society needs to call down justice in its rightful place. This is a heinous crime!

Agreed it is a horrible crime. If they do come to the Lord though, imagine the guilt he will feel when the Holy Spirit frees him from the grip of his behavior and he realizes exactly what he has done.

 

[allhart]

Agreed it is a horrible crime. If they do come to the Lord though, imagine the guilt he will feel when the Holy Spirit frees him from the grip of his behavior and he realizes exactly what he has done.

Look I have compassion, but who has compassion for the victim? And God says He forgives, but that doesn't mean God can stop justice! Our consequence for the sin in the garden is death and He told Adam that!

 

[Supernaut]

Look I have compassion, but who has compassion for the victim? And God says He forgives, but that doesn't mean God can stop justice! Our consequence for the sin in the garden is death and He told Adam that!

There is always help and hope for the helpless. He does forgive absolutely.

Humble yourself before going too far as to what God can stop. He is in control of everything right?

But by the grace of God we can be saved. We will not see death eternal.

 

[b&wpac4]

Look I have compassion, but who has compassion for the victim?

and killing the man will do what for the victim? Will it make the crime go away? Will it heal the wounds?

You want to show compassion for the victim, make sure the victim gets the care they need.