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IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

Dave L

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Why does he need to when you have not proved your point with scripture and when scripture is posted to you then you choose to ignore it?

Please see post # 50 linked.

Hope this helps.
Are you confusing the Ten Commandments (abolished) with the Two Great Commandments written in the heart under the New Covenant?
 
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Dan the deacon

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Where does Scripture say that God will judge Gentiles by the Law?
It doesn't
The law was written to the O T Jews and not to gentiles. The OT has been fulfilled which means completed. The lae was a schoolmaster to trach us we could not even keep ten simple laws. This is why God planned for Jesus to save us from before the foundation of this world.
 
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Dan the deacon

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Where does Scripture say that God will judge Gentiles by the Law?
It doesn't
The law was written to the O T Jews and not to gentiles. The OT has been fulfilled which means completed. The law was a schoolmaster to teach us we could not even keep ten simple laws. This is why God planned for Jesus to save us from before the foundation of this world.
 
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jamesbond007

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Thanks for posting God's objective moral laws. Breaking them is always a sin and it could lead to more severe transgressions. It's good to review them once in a while as situations change.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Are you confusing the Ten Commandments (abolished) with the Two Great Commandments written in the heart under the New Covenant?

Hello Dave,

Last post of the night for me. I hope to help you see that you cannot separate Law from LOVE because under the NEW COVENANT of LOVE God's 10 Commandments are an EXPRESSION of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to man.

Please I ask you take the time to look at these scriptures and do not ignore this post as you did the other post. It will not take too long to read and shows that God's 10 Commandments are how LOVE is expressed under the NEW COVENANT.

Let's look at the scriptures...

............

There are two great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to mankind that Jesus talks about in *MATTHEW 22:26-40. These two great commandments of LOVE are not new commandments. They are quoted from DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18 to sum up God's 10 commandments.

Besides being in the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures the Jewish lawyers already knew that LOVE to GOD and LOVE to MAN was only a summary of how to obey God's LAW as OBEDIENCE to God's 10 Commandments is an EXPRESSION of LOVE. The Jewish experts in the Mosaic laws understood this application in the OLD and NEW Testament scriptures.

For example, in the NEW TESTAMENT...

LUKE 10:25
[25], And, behold, a certain LAWYER stood up, and tested him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

The GREEK word used for LAWYER here is different to the way we would understand the use of the word today. The GREEK word used here is ἐκπειράζω ; ekpeirazō it means in this case an expert in the Mosaic laws.

So we have an expert in the Mosaic law standing up to try and ask Jesus a trick questions and test him, saying what must I do to inherit eternal life?

[26], He [JESUS] said unto him, What is written in the law? how read you?

Listen to the response of the expert in the Mosaic law...

[27], And he answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.

Sound familiar? Jesus then says...

[28], And he said unto him, You have answered right: this do, and you shall live.

Here is another accasion this time Jesus was answering...

MATTHEW 22:35-40
[35], Then one of them, who was a LAWYER, asked him a question, testing him, and saying,
[36], Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said unto him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

Notice the same answer given by the expert in the Mosaic laws but Jesus adds;
ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

WHY? because these two great commandments of LOVE TO GOD and LOVE TO MAN SUMMARIZE our duty of LOVE as EXPRESSED in the OBEDIENCE of GOD'S LAW through faith. OBEDIENCE to GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS is HOW LOVE is EXPRESSED to GOD and to MAN.

.................

Now did you notice in the first set of scriptures above that [LUKE 10:25-28] what question was asked by the expert in the MOSAIC laws? He tried to test Jesus by asking the question;

* What shall I do to inherit eternal life? (Luke 10:25)

Jesus says that he gave the correct answer; LOVE GOD with all your heart (Deuteronomy 6:5) and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORE as yourself (LEVITICUS 19:18)

Now notice how Jesus answers the very same questions asked by the Lawyer in Luke 10:25 by the rich young rule and how the very same question he answered earlier by saying to LOVE GOD and LOVE your neighbore and on these to HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets...

MATTHEW 19:16-21
[16], And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Same question asked by the Lawyer in Luke 10:25 where the answer was to LOVE GOD and your neighbore. How does Jesus answer the question?

[17], And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.

Which commandment some might say? If we stopped here some would argue cannot be the ten commandments. Let's read on..

[18], He said unto him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
[19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[20], The young man said unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
[21], Jesus said unto him, If you will be perfect, go and sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Did Jesus answer the same question correctly? Absolutely! WHY because OBEDIENCE to the the 10 Commandments are how LOVE is EXPRESSED to GOD and MAN. The first 4x commandments in * Exodus 20:3-11 are our duty of LOVE to GOD. The next 6x commandments are our duty of LOVE to our neighbore * Exodus 20:12-17.

LOVE TO GOD and LOVE TO MANKIND as an EXPRESSION of LOVE is SUMMED up in the 10 COMMANDMENTS and is why Jesus says "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [LOVE TO GOD AND LOVE TO MAN] HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

PAUL is saying the same thing in ROMANS.

ROMANS 13:9-10, [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, IT IS SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

................

CONCLUSION the two great commandments of LOVE are EXPRESSED by OBEDIENCE to GOD'S 10 commandments which show our duty of LOVE to GOD (Exodus 20:3-11) and our neighbore (Exodus 20:12-17). LOVE sums up the 10 Commandments and LOVE is the fulfilling [doing or establishing them] * ROMANS 3:31

................

The practical application here can be seen in these examples.

LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART MIND AND SOUL (Deuteronomy 6:5)

* If you love God will you have other gods before him? (Exodus 20:3)
* If you love God will you make yourself idols and worship them? (Exodus 20:4-5)
* If you love God will you take his name in vain (Exodus 20:7)
* If you love God will you forget his Sabbath memorial of creation? (Exodus 20:8-11)

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORE AS YOURSELF (Leviticus 19:18)

* If you love your neighbore will you dishonor your parents? (Exodus 20:12)
* If you love your neighbore will you kill him? (Exodus 20:13)
* If you love your neighbore will you commit adultery with their spouse? (Exodus 20:14)
* If you love your neighbore will you steal from them? (Exodus 20:15)
* If you love your neighbore will you lie to them? (Exodus 20:16)
* If you love your neighbore will you covet or be jealous of them? (Exodus 20:17).

ROMANS 13:8-10, [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

.................

CONCLUSION: IF you are breaking any of God's 10 Commandments that define our duty of LOVE to GOD or LOVE to MAN you are not LOVING therefore you stand "UNDER THE LAW" guilty before God because you are still in your sins (Romans 3:19).

I hope this helps brother. God's LAW of LOVE is not new it was written in the OLD COVENANT pointing to the NEW. If you are breaking any of God's 10 Commandments which are our duty of LOVE to GOD and MAN then you do not LOVE and are still "UNDER THE LAW" guilty before God of sin.

Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM (Hebrews 10:26-27).
 
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mmksparbud

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You need to prove your point using scripture. An absence of sabbath keeping in the NT answers my claims.


That is what I asked you to do!! There was plenty of Sabbath keeping in the NT.

Act_1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Act_13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act_13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
ct_16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act_18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa_66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
 
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mmksparbud

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You need to prove your point using scripture. An absence of sabbath keeping in the NT answers my claims.


That is what I asked you to do!! There was plenty of Sabbath keeping in the NT.

Act_1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Act_13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Act_13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
ct_16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act_18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

And we will continue to keep it:

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa_66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
 
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Dan the deacon

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Acts 15:24
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I agree Dan. Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says we do not have to keep the Law of Moses (in reference to the whole of the 613 commands of the OT as a whole or package deal and it is not talking about the Moral Law like do not murder, do not covet, and do not steal, etc.). The 10 gives us the Saturday Sabbath and it is not a repeated command in the New Testament (NT). You may see folks observing it in the NT, but observing a day is not the same as it being a command. So when you say you have to keep the 10, you are saying you have to keep the Law of Moses (Which is forbidden in Acts of the Apostles 15:24 because we are not told to obey the Law of Moses - which includes the ceremonial command of the Saturday Sabbath within the 10).

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17).
 
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GingerBeer

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Some of the ten commandments are not generally obeyed. Honouring of one's mother and father is kept but only weakly, not coveting property is not well kept in our consumer society, not coveting your neighbour's spouse is frequently breached, keeping Friday sunset until Saturday sunset as a holy day of rest is generally not observed.
 
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You are espousing the opposite end of the spectrum of the problem here. Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God's Moral Laws have not been abrogated. A person cannot murder and or steal and still be saved unless they repent (i.e. they seek Jesus's forgiveness and they forsake that sin). Paul lists various sins (the breaking of the Moral Law) in Galatians 5:19-21, and he says that those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
 
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GingerBeer

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Can a person give verbal disobedience to a parent and stay saved, or can a person keep Sunday and be saved, can a person covet your car or house or hi-fi or computer and stay saved?
 
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expos4ever

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I thought the whole world being under God's Law and being judged with the Flood and 2 Peter 2:6-8 made it pretty clear.
We are, I am quite certain, discussing the Law of Moses. Despite a lot of misunderstanding, when Paul talks about "the Law", he is talking about the 613 elements that make up the Law of Moses.

That came after the flood and 2 Peter 6-8 does not refer specifically to the Law of Moses.

It is important to get this right! I will wager a frosty yard of ale that no Biblical scholar with a real degree would not know that when Paul (or Jesus) refer to "the Law", they are referring to the Law of Moses.

The existence of righteousness and sin means that there is a standard of what is and is not righteous or sinful, and that standard is God's Law,
Not in the sense you mean:

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world,

There we have it - before the Law of Moses was given, sin was present in the world. The Law of Moses may indeed have imparted knowledge of sin to the Jew, but sin was definitely in the world prior to the arrival of the Law!

So there is indeed a standard, but it is not necessarily the Law.

and if you believe that Gentiles are required to do what is righteous and to refrain from sin (1 John 3:10, Romans 6:15), then you should think that Gentiles are required to obey God's Law.
The Law of Moses is clearly for Jews only. I will not making the case I have made before and which should be obvious to any Bibilically literate person.

We should not be having this discussion - it is clear as clear can be that the Jew in under the Law and the Gentile is not:

For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law,....

Soyeong, what does Paul mean when he says the Gentiles do not have the Law? Please give a clear, concise answer.

Look, we get it - the principles and spirit that underlie the Law of Moses are accessible to all mankind. But, as a formal code of practice and behaviour, it is clearly restricted to the Jews.
 
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expos4ever

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I thought the whole world being under God's Law and being judged with the Flood and 2 Peter 2:6-8 made it pretty clear.
We are, I am quite certain, discussing the Law of Moses. Despite a lot of misunderstanding, when Paul talks about "the Law", he is talking about the 613 elements that make up the Law of Moses.

That came after the flood and 2 Peter 6-8 does not refer specifically to the Law of Moses.

It is important to get this right! I will wager a frosty yard of ale that no Biblical scholar with a real degree would not know that when Paul (or Jesus) refer to "the Law", they are referring to the Law of Moses.

The existence of righteousness and sin means that there is a standard of what is and is not righteous or sinful, and that standard is God's Law,
Not in the sense you mean:

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world,

There we have it - before the Law of Moses was given, sin was present in the world. The Law of Moses may indeed have imparted knowledge of sin to the Jew, but sin was definitely in the world prior to the arrival of the Law!

So there is indeed a standard, but it is not necessarily the Law.

and if you believe that Gentiles are required to do what is righteous and to refrain from sin (1 John 3:10, Romans 6:15), then you should think that Gentiles are required to obey God's Law.
The Law of Moses is clearly for Jews only. I will not making the case I have made before and which should be obvious to any Bibilically literate person.

We should not be having this discussion - it is clear as clear can be that the Jew in under the Law and the Gentile is not:

For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law,....

Soyeong, what does Paul mean when he says the Gentiles do not have the Law? Please give a clear, concise answer.

Look, we get it - the principles and spirit that underlie the Law of Moses are accessible to all mankind. But, as a formal code of practice and behaviour, it is clearly restricted to the Jews.
 
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Dan the deacon

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Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Define the word " establish". I think that will explain why this verse does not mean what you suppose it means.
 
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Dan the deacon

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Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Define the word " establish". I think that will explain why this verse does not mean what you suppose it means.
 
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expos4ever

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Thanks for posting God's objective moral laws. Breaking them is always a sin and it could lead to more severe transgressions. It's good to review them once in a while as situations change.
There is indeed an objective moral law that remains in effect. But the 10 commandments, which obviously reflect that objective moral law, are part of the written Law of Moses. And the Law of Moses has been retired. Paul is clear about this, not least in Romans 7 and Galatians 3.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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This emphasis on the 10 commandments usually ends up as a side door to make a case that we need to keep a Saturday Sabbath. There are plenty of sins not covered by the 10 commandments, like pride, gossip, selfishness and many more. Coming to jesus should have our lives turning from sin and then putting on the good works of God in our own lives.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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This emphasis on the 10 commandments usually ends up as a side door to make a case that we need to keep a Saturday Sabbath. There are plenty of sins not covered by the 10 commandments, like pride, gossip, selfishness and many more. Coming to jesus should have our lives turning from sin and then putting on the good works of God in our own lives.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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This emphasis on the 10 commandments usually ends up as a side door to make a case that we need to keep a Saturday Sabbath. There are plenty of sins not covered by the 10 commandments, like pride, gossip, selfishness and many more. Coming to jesus should have our lives turning from sin and then putting on the good works of God in our own lives.
 
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