IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

Saint Steven said:

I agree with poster Dave L, who says something to the effect that, if it takes that many words to answer, there is most likely something majorly wrong with the answer.

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I don't that is only said by those who have no scripture to support their belief.

Copperhead said:

We had a saying in the military back in the day.... "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS". Makes me wonder these lengthy posters hold a verbal conversation with others.

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So your trying to say if someone has a lot of scripture from God's WORD to support their case then it is not true and those that have little to none must be correct? That is a cleaver way of thinking.

Jason0047 said:

I have made my share of long posts before from my Google Documents (So as to show the weight of Scripture in supporting a particular belief), but I would not continue to keep posting super long walls of texts over and over and over and over again. The only time my posts can get a little long (sometimes) is if I replied to someone who said a lot and we are deep in conversation about many things. But even then I try to break down my responses into smaller bite sized posts so as to reply to them (So others can read, too). I believe he has taken the long post allowance waaaay beyond the threshold. For people are busy and wading through a long endless sea of super long posts is never effective to tell people about what you believe to be true. I believe an occasional long post is okay, but if everyone of your posts is a wall of text, people are just going to tune you out because it does not seem like you are taking the time to truly listen to them (in what they have to say). It is just using the copying and paste tool with them not really listening. For I had 4 long walls of text posted to me last night after I said that was my last reply on the matter of the Sabbath.

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Yet Jason does it not concern you that the scriptures you used have not been in context and that you are not using your key to unlocking that door to the new (John 10:8)

Saint Steven said:

I agree. I think his aim is to reprogram readers to his POV. That requires a lot of reading and a lot of gullibility. Notice he is trying to get promises from readers that they will keep to his talking points. I refuse. It's a brainwashing tactic. These folks are sheep stealers. We are their prime target. Reader beware.

Jesus came to seek and to save those who were lost.
These folks have come to seek and to enslave the saved.
(and to steal their salvation in the process)

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Not at all, only God's WORD is true and we should beleive and follow it. If you cannot support what you believe with God's WORD then maybe you should consider what you believe.

Jason0047 said:

Yeah, it makes one think about SDA (and or other churches who say that not keeping the Sabbath is a sin). Ellen G. White had a vision of the 4th commandment being highlighted by a light on the two tablets of stone given to Moses by God. Yet, many of her predictions have not come to pass (and were proven to be false). God's Word says if a prophet's words do not come to pass just one time, we are not to listen to them.

Anyways, I really liked the movie Hacksaw Ridge because I am a New Testament Pacifist (who believes in just war or justice by the hands of governments), but after this thread, it truly makes me realize the serious danger of the SDA church and those like it that promote Sabbath keeping as a part of salvation (When the NT in no way clearly talks about that). It is like those who were trying to promote "Circumicision" for salvation. Paul condemned those who did that. For circumcision is a part of the Mosaic Law, just like the weekly Sabbath is a part of the Mosaic Law (and not the law given to us by Christ).

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Yet here you still are Jason, not being able to reply to all the scriptures that disagree with your teachings. If God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that if broken give us a knowledge of what sin is and those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not enter into God's KINGDOM, does this not worry you Jason? Many are going to be dissappointed come judgment day.

Saint Steven said:

Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We have such a high priest, one who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the sanctuary and the true tabernacle that the Lord, not man, set up. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. So this one too had to have something to offer. Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. The place where they serve is a sketch and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary, just as Moses was warned by God as he was about to complete the tabernacle. For he says, “See that you make everything according to the design shown to you on the mountain.”
But now Jesus has obtained a superior ministry, since the covenant that he mediates is also better and is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one. But showing its fault, God says to them, “Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. “It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord. “For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people. “And there will be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his brother saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the greatest. “For I will be merciful toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.” When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.
I will give them one heart and I will put a new spirit within them; I will remove the hearts of stone from their bodies and I will give them tender hearts, so that they may follow my statutes and observe my regulations and carry them out. Then they will be my people, and I will be their God.
The work of the Holy Spirit is internal, changing our hearts from hearts of stone to hearts of flesh. He creates in us a love for God and a desire to obey His commands. As a result, we can draw near to Him, entering into an intimate relationship free from fear and dread. The New Covenant enables us to become His people, and He becomes our God. This kind of intimacy is something that the Old Covenant could never produce. The New removes the curse, not just a cover for sin.

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Steve, if you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is? The OLD TESTAMENT scriptures are the key in God's Spirit that unlocks the door to the NEW. If you have lost your key haw can you open a locked door (John 10:9)?

Saint Steven said:

That's lame. I showed you two scriptures that indicate they are different. Just because God's WORD doesn't align with your beliefs doesn't mean it is false.

You are not in agreement with God's WORD. The Apostle Paul indicates that they are different. Even Christ makes the distinction. Scripture below.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

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You did provide two scriptures and none of them said they were different laws. How can God the father and Jesus be one and have different laws? How could Jesus be one with the Father if they had different laws to each other? (John 10:30). Sorry Steve your teaching here does not make any sense and does not agree with Jesus.

Saint Steven said:

Try reading it again s l o w l y so you get it this time o k a y ?

1) I wasn't talking to you.
2) I asked for the scripture from the law that said doing good on the Sabbath is lawful.

Apparently there is no such thing. Which proves my point.

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Maybe you need to read it slowly? Your question was answered with God's WORD. You asked for the scripture that says doing GOOD in the sabbath is lawful. It was provided to you in MATTHEW 12:12. I guess you did not like the answer.

Saint Steven said:

What was the "grace already given" that grace was a replacement for?

What was the old covenant replaced with, since there was something wrong with it?
(which is why it is now obsolete)

John 1:16-17
Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 8:7, 13
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

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Grace was given for obedience to the faith. It is not a replacement for anything. It is a demonstration of God's Love as revealed in the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures. How can you know what what the NEW COVENANT is if you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is? If you have lost your key how can you open a locked door (John 10:7)?

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

ROMANS 1:5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

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DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

Hope this helps

Saint Steven said:

Here is your post. "... everything that God requires..." of a "babe in Christ". Requires? For what?

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Steve that is not very hard to understand. Why make things hard for yourself? The post you are quoting from is is in relation to an earlier discussion on Romans 2 and Romans 3. JEWS and GENTILES all under sin. All have broken God's LAW and all are guilty before God of sin (Romans 2:4-12 and Romans 3:9-20).

Your question was ...

I thought you also contended that those who are ignorant of the law are not condemned by it. How could they have "sinned without law"?

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The response give you was...

Nope, there is a difference between being an "UNBELIEVER" who does not know God and someone who is a believer growing in grace as a babe in Christ that does not know everything that God requires of them through his WORD. In times of this ignoreance God winks at until a knowledge of the truth is come.

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God's WORD says..

ROMANS 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

The scriptures in ACTS 17 is talking to all those who are ignorant of God's WORD {The IGNORANT ARE ALL THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD'S WORD}. If you are ignorant of God's WORD then you do not know it, therefore have not rejected it to become an "UNBELIEVER" who is someone that does not believe (REJECTED God's WORD)

ROMANS 2:12 says regardless if you break God's LAW there will be consequences for breaking it. If you live your live with out it you will perish without it. If you live your life in it you will be judged by it.

When we are "IGNORANT" or NEW "BELIEVERS" we are only held accountable to what we know not what we do not know as we need time to Grow in Grace and the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD. It is not untill we have God's WORD given to us and reject it that we become and "UNBELIEVER"

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GROWING IN GRACE

HEBREWS 5:11-14, Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing you are dull of hearing. [12], For when for the time you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13], For every one that uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [14], But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

2 PETER 3:18, But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

When one is a babe or NEW CHRISTIAN we do not know everything that God requires of us right away. To be a Christian is conditional on CONTINUING in God's WORD, learning and growing in GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Now when one is "IGNORANT" of God's WORD or a new Christian and beginning to learn they are not held accountable to everything in God's WORD untill they have been given a KNOWLEDGE of the truth.

At this time God expects us to REPENT and BELIEVE the WORD of GOD and follow it through faith. Those who do not repent and believe God's WORD when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth is come, have chosen then to become UNBELIEVERS and therefore, no longer under God's GRACE (Hebrews 6:4-8; Romans 6:1-2; Jude 1:3-4).

ACTS 17:30-31 [30], And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent: [31], Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; whereof he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

When God gives you a knowledge of his WORD he expect you to change your ways, repent and follow it.

Hope this helps Steve

Saint Steven said:

I have scripture to support my beliefs, so does Dave L, and many others. Again, somehow your quotes are God's WORD, but ours aren't. Can you explain why our direct quotes from scripture are NOT God's Word?

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We need to be workman correctly dividing the Word of truth. You have been shown through scripture that you choose not to respond to that you leave out context and do not understand the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures which have effected your understanding of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures.

If you disagree with any of the scriptures posted to you that disagree with your teaching that God's LAW is abolished you are welcome to reply to these posts. So far you have simply chosen to ignore them.

Saint Steven said:

There is only one minute between posts #561 to #563. So you are claiming to have typed those posts in one minute without copy/paste? Not possible.

Post #561 has 78 typed lines plus inserted links. Done in one minute?

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Your a funny one Steve , I do not think you read my posts to you. No I already told you that I spent a lot of time in WORD writing those posts. Once complete they were all ready for posting into CF. I did not write then in CF, I only posted them. Not hard to understand.