Is it right to pray to saints?

[Thekla]

just an observation:

channeling is a misnomer (and a loaded term, given its present useage)

 

[Thekla]

In the Middle East and the Balkans, it is not unusual for Muslims to visit Monasterys to ask for the Virgin Mary to pray for them. Many Muslims have respect for Mary. Many healings, etc in this way have been effected and, as a result, many Muslims convert to Christianity in this way.

justa note

 

[mont974x4]

There's no biblical support for the act.

There is no indication that the saints in Heaven even hear the saints on earth.

There is no mention of a live person talking to a dead person that is in a good light.

 

[Catholic Christian]

how about this EO version:

"Agia Anna, well pleasing to God, pray to God for me."

Sounds nice

 

[Catholic Christian]

There's no biblical support for the act. .

Yes there is. It has been laid out for you multiple times

There is no indication that the saints in Heaven even hear the saints on earth..

Yes there is. Scripture indicates that the angels in heaven rejoice at the conversion of one sinner, and saints & angels are both spirit.

There is no mention of a live person talking to a dead person that is in a good light.

People in heaven are not dead. You simply refuse to grasp that.

 

[NoDoubt]

Here is an image of a request for a lonnnnnng intercessory prayer to ask for shortening the duration of the souls of the departed stay in purgatory. It's called a litany.

You can send in your cash donations. Indulgences.

 

[Thekla]

A paralyzed limb is still very much part of the body, yet it does not respond to the body’s commands. Similarly, the dead saints remain part of the body of Christ, but there is an effective separation from the living saints. The same Lord who healed paralytics during his earthly ministry will one day give His people a glorified and immortal body and gather us all together. Until then we must face the sad consequence of death: separation!​

this illustration is curious; it seems to equate the act of listening with its physical equivalent, but fails to recognize the spiritual act of listening. Anotherwords, it overemphasizes the body. Further, it fails to acknowledge the reality of the Holy Spirit, and our spiritual communion with others.

 

[NoDoubt]

this illustration is curious; it seems to equate the act of listening with its physical equivalent, but fails to recognize the spiritual act of listening. Anotherwords, it overemphasizes the body. Further, it fails to acknowledge the reality of the Holy Spirit, and our spiritual communion with others.

But if you read just above: The soul of the departed is alive and conscious – in heaven or hell, but there is no communication between the departed and us. That’s why the Bible forbids us from trying to communicate with the dead.

There is absolutely no scriptural evidence that they can hear us. And I know that you and many others keep repeating "they're alive" but there is that gap. They have left their bodies. The communication has been severed.

They can't hear us.

 

[Thekla]

But if you read just above: The soul of the departed is alive and conscious – in heaven or hell, but there is no communication between the departed and us. That’s why the Bible forbids us from trying to communicate with the dead.

There is absolutely no scriptural evidence that they can hear us. And I know that you and many others keep repeating "they're alive" but there is that gap. They have left their bodies. The communication has been severed.

They can't hear us.

so communication is wholly reliant on the body ?

 

[NoDoubt]

so communication is wholly reliant on the body ?

I don't believe in 'psychic communication' with uncorporeal beings.

 

[Thekla]

I don't believe in 'psychic communication' with uncorporeal beings.

thats not quite what I said, but nonetheless, you are suggesting that the body is the only way we can communicate. This implies then, that in death we also can not hear God.

 

[Thekla]

I don't believe in 'psychic communication' with uncorporeal beings.

I may misunderstand your terminology, but the use of "psychic communication" seems to rely on secular understanding; meaning mediums, magic, esp etc.

Psyche comes from the Greek for soul. If our communication is reliant on the body, this means we must be animals. In Genesis, the animals are made first, they are 'brought forth living souls from the earth'. Their souls are from matter. Genesis is quite clear, however, that our bodies are made from matter, but our soul is 'breathed into us by God'. It is not the same as an animal soul, and is conected with our spirit-- that which communicates with God.

Your statement leads to two possible conclusions; either we have an animal soul, or our soul at death is disconnected from both our body and our spirit.

 

[NoDoubt]

thats not quite what I said, but nonetheless, you are suggesting that the body is the only way we can communicate. This implies then, that in death we also can not hear God.

When we die, we go into the immediate presence of God (or to Hell -- depends on the individual)

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:8

 

[NoDoubt]

I may misunderstand your terminology, but the use of "psychic communication" seems to rely on secular understanding; meaning mediums, magic, esp etc.

Psyche comes from the Greek for soul. If our communication is reliant on the body, this means we must be animals. In Genesis, the animals are made first, they are 'brought forth living souls from the earth'. Their souls are from matter. Genesis is quite clear, however, that our bodies are made from matter, but our soul is 'breathed into us by God'. It is not the same as an animal soul, and is conected with our spirit-- that which communicates with God.

Your statement leads to two possible conclusions; either we have an animal soul, or our soul at death is disconnected from both our body and our spirit.

I said psychic communication because that's what 'praying to saints' is. Necromancy pure and simple. Dangerous stuff.

I am not an animal.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I don't think you understand the fact that we are not to talk to people who have died. They are not to be contacted. It is forbidden and it is unscriptural.

You say that the saints are alive. That's fine if you want to think that. But don't try to contact them. Leve them be. It is forbidden.

Do you mean,

When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

This is from the Old Testament. Now, in the new covenant, there is no more death for those who are in Christ...He conquered death.. it says that we should not contact the dead, and I fully agree with that! But the point is that the saints are alive!

I think that many 'mediums' who try to contact the dead end up contact demons...but praying to saints is different, because it is within God's will and they are in heaven...we are all one in Christ. When we die, we don't stop being part of the Church.

peace

monica

 

[Catholic Christian]

This is from the Old Testament. Now, in the new covenant, there is no more death for those who are in Christ...He conquered death.. it says that we should not contact the dead, and I fully agree with that! But the point is that the saints are alive!
I think that many 'mediums' who try to contact the dead end up contact demons...but praying to saints is different, because it is within God's will and they are in heaven...we are all one in Christ. When we die, we don't stop being part of the Church.
peace monica

@

 

[NoDoubt]

Do you mean,


This is from the Old Testament. Now, in the new covenant, there is no more death for those who are in Christ...He conquered death.. it says that we should not contact the dead, and I fully agree with that! But the point is that the saints are alive!

I think that many 'mediums' who try to contact the dead end up contact demons...but praying to saints is different, because it is within God's will and they are in heaven...we are all one in Christ. When we die, we don't stop being part of the Church.

peace

monica

This is absolutely ridiculous. I could keep repeating over and over again how it is dangerous and how God forbids it and how the scriptures indicate that there is only ONE intercessor which is Christ and it would make no difference, would it?

 

[Thekla]

I said psychic communication because that's what 'praying to saints' is. Necromancy pure and simple. Dangerous stuff.

I am not an animal.

again, your understanding of the human soul and communication is based on the idea that the soul, like an animal soul, is material. Please refer to my prior post. If we are united through the Holy Spirit, yet our unity in Christ through the Holy Spirit cannot bridge the gap of the death of the body, then our spirit also dies or is separated from the soul at death. This implies, then, that in heaven we cannot hear God, since we are also separated from our spirit.

Paul was quite clear; even in life (while our bodies are alive) we have come to the heavenly Kingdom. We are united spiritually.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Wrong and sinful, I don't know, but I'd never recommend it. Waste of time, I think so. If the saints are alive(which they are, but I don't know about having a new body quite yet.) and care about us, that's great. But we already have a helper, and that is more than enough for me. How great that God will listen to our prayers, and we needn't go through a process of people to get to him.

Ishida, I think you're misunderstanding it a little....I don't think that people pray to saints instead of praying to God, we all pray to God lots too! And the point of saints is not to "get to God", as you said,....it's true that we don't need anyone but Christ to reach the Father....

peace

monica

 

[NoDoubt]

You're wasting your time with this one. The person you are addressing claims that the Catholic Church prevented her from having a Bible in her home. Need I say more?

I thought I was on your ignore list?