Is it really a choice?

[elephunky]

Blerk, im done trying to explain my point to you people. I dont think you understand where Im coming from or what I mean

 

[Zebra1552]

Blerk, im done trying to explain my point to you people. I dont think you understand where Im coming from or what I mean

I reckon we understand exactly what you mean and where you're coming from. You're coming from an extremely secular background, full of ideas on pluralism and whatnot. We just disagree with your meaning and your ideas on this matter because it's not logical or biblical.

 

[elephunky]

And your post GodsChild just proved to me that you werent taking my posts for what they are.

I understand why people do what they do in regards to God and Christianity. This does not mean that I encourage it or condone it.

You dont know my background so you can stop with that right now.

And its completely logical for this people to deal with it the way they do, just because its not logical for you does not mean its not logical for others

 

[Zebra1552]

And your post GodsChild just proved to me that you werent taking my posts for what they are.

How so?

I understand why people do what they do in regards to God and Christianity. This does not mean that I encourage it or condone it.

Do you? Then please explain it from God's perspective.

You dont know my background so you can stop with that right now.

No, I don't know it 100%, but I sure can make an accurate guess.

And its completely logical for this people to deal with it the way they do, just because its not logical for you does not mean its not logical for others

Logic does not depend on one's point of view. In other words, it doesn't matter if it's logical for others. It's still illogical. You can't reject God and not choose hell. They go hand in hand.

 

[elephunky]

How so?


Do you? Then please explain it from God's perspective.

No, I don't know it 100%, but I sure can make an accurate guess.


Logic does not depend on one's point of view. In other words, it doesn't matter if it's logical for others. It's still illogical. You can't reject God and not choose hell. They go hand in hand.

IF you cant figure it out, reread my posts, then reread your post.

Im not trying to explain it from Gods perspective, Im explaining it from what I have experienced it to be from a non christians perspecitve.

Its not an accurate guess, its a judgement. Do not judge me.

log⋅ic   /ˈlɒdʒ

ɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [loj-ik] Show IPA
–noun 1.the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.2.a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic. 3.the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.4.reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move. 5.convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts. 6.Computers. logic circuit.



log·ic (lŏj'ĭk) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.
2. 1. A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic.
   2. A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow.
   3. The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science.
   4. The nonarithmetic operations performed by a computer, such as sorting, comparing, and matching, that involve yes-no decisions.
   5. Computer circuitry.
   6. Graphic representation of computer circuitry.
3. Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
4. The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.

 

[Zebra1552]

IF you cant figure it out, reread my posts, then reread your post.

No. If you want to make claims about what I do or do not understand, then you can explain exactly how I don't understand it and what I'm missing. It's not my job to explain what I'm missing, since I am the one (according to you) missing it.

Im not trying to explain it from Gods perspective, Im explaining it from what I have experienced it to be from a non christians perspecitve.

It is our duty as Christians to see things from God's perspective:
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Not the world's perspective.

Its not an accurate guess, its a judgement. Do not judge me.

Is there some rule that tells me not to? Or does it just offend you that I know what perspective you're using in your arguments?

log⋅ic   /ˈlɒdʒ

ɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [loj-ik] Show IPA
–noun 1.the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.2.a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic. 3.the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.4.reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move. 5.convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts. 6.Computers. logic circuit.



log·ic (lŏj'ĭk) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.
2. 1. A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic.
   2. A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow.
   3. The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science.
   4. The nonarithmetic operations performed by a computer, such as sorting, comparing, and matching, that involve yes-no decisions.
   5. Computer circuitry.
   6. Graphic representation of computer circuitry.
3. Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
4. The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.

Logic, as it is understood in philosophy and ethics, is not arbitrary, as highlighted above. It is objective, as evidenced by terms like 'system' or 'principles' or 'science'. It does not depend on perspective. Posting things from answers.com isn't going to change that.

 

[elephunky]

It is our duty as Christians to see things from God's perspective:
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Not the world's perspective.

Is there some rule that tells me not to? Or does it just offend you that I know what perspective you're using in your arguments?

Logic, as it is understood in philosophy and ethics, is not arbitrary, as highlighted above. It is objective, as evidenced by terms like 'system' or 'principles' or 'science'. It does not depend on perspective. Posting things from answers.com isn't going to change that.

I think that while we should see it from Gods perspective, it is important to understand things from the worlds perspective. You cant connect with someone if you dont understand them and their actions.

Answers.com? I got that from an online dictionary. Geez, each person has their own sense of logic. There is no generic standard of logic, it would be impossible to implement such a thing. If we all had the same understanding of logic, the world wouldnt have half the problems it does.

 

[Zebra1552]

I think that while we should see it from Gods perspective, it is important to understand things from the worlds perspective. You cant connect with someone if you dont understand them and their actions.

I'm not worldly, nor do I see things from the world's perspective. So why are you using one in talking to me?

Answers.com? I got that from an online dictionary.

Answers.com IS an online dictionary.

Geez, each person has their own sense of logic. There is no generic standard of logic, it would be impossible to implement such a thing.

You really don't get it...
Do you understand what logic is? It is not common sense. It is not wisdom. Logic is a set of laws and principles that do not change no matter where you go. These laws and principles dictate what is and is not a valid conclusion. 'Logic' that does not come to valid conclusions are called logical fallacies. It does not depend on perspective. It depends on whether or not a statement is logical or illogical, as determined by the rules and principles of logic.

If we all had the same understanding of logic, the world wouldnt have half the problems it does.

This is because people like you don't properly understand the rules and principles involved in logic, nevermind know what logic IS.

 

[elephunky]

Im done talking with you on this view of mine.

 

[Nadiine]

Lol they are not given coal. And that is only evidence to those who believe. Im sure that the psychics could give you evidence why it is real. As with those who belong to other religious and belief systems.

But, it proves that we do not have a choice. Hmmm, bowing down to god or eternity in hell, the term "well, doesnt look like i have a choice here" comes to mind.

We are to be living robots that turn on each other for the sake of argument

You're also to honor and obey your parents - does that make everyone
a robot becuz they should do what they're parents tell them?

The ONLY way you're correct in this is if EVERYBODY WERE CHRISTIANS
becuz God says you have to be saved.
But everybody is NOT a Christian. So how are they robots?
They know the Christian religion, Jesus is well known historically
around the world and yet there are millions and millions who aren't
born again.

How is that lack of choice? There is simply consequence for refusing
Salvation - the penalty of sin is eternal condemnation apart from God
becuz sin HAS to be put away and done away with to restore the
world to it's former glory and give those who loved Righteousness a life
with God in His presence.

I don't know why you see a lack of choice - people refuse to respond
to God every single day. IF He removed all your will, you'de be
forced to obey or have serious punishments against you to get you
in line.

Sorry, this argument makes no logical sense

 

[Nadiine]

I think that while we should see it from Gods perspective, it is important to understand things from the worlds perspective. You cant connect with someone if you dont understand them and their actions.

Most all Christians I know came out of sinful, rebellious lives & lived
like the world before their conversion - I don't know of any Christians
who don't understand the world's perspective when they were one of
them all their lives prior to meeting up with the Lord personally.

I personally think Christians understand alot about people's actions -
but it's people who don't understand their own actions who don't
connect or relate to Christians as I see it.

 

[dies-l]

The question that I keep coming back to on this topic, is this: If a person does not like God in this life, why would that person want to spend eternity with Him?

Why is it so absurd to think that those people who have chosen to reject God might also willingly choose to spend eternity apart from Him?

Don't most people tend to choose to stay away from others that they don't like? Why would this tendency be different with God?

 

[Nadiine]

The question that I keep coming back to on this topic, is this: If a person does not like God in this life, why would that person want to spend eternity with Him?

Why is it so absurd to think that those people who have chosen to reject God might also willingly choose to spend eternity apart from Him?

Don't most people tend to choose to stay away from others that they don't like? Why would this tendency be different with God?

exactly.

As I see it, alot of our time is going to just be praising Him and giving
Him glory - many people find that repulsive. So why would they
want an eternity with Him?

(and I include those who bash the Bible God & invent their own
"Jesus" - as if you can reject the Father but love the Son?.
Is someone really worshipping God when they deny who He is in reality and call Him a monster & think up of a god they like instead?)

 

[Zecryphon]

People arent chosing hell if they dont believe in it.

A child would know that the consequence of disobeying that parents because the result is phsical and they have no doubt experienced it before.

So if you don't believe in hell, it ceases to exist? Let's try that logic elsewhere. Let's say I don't believe in Iraq, I think it's a made up place. I don't care what evidence you show me that it exists, I think it doesn't. Does Iraq now cease to exist simply because I don't believe in i it?

 

[Zecryphon]

Im not saying there is no evidence, I am saying that Christianity isnt the only one with the evidence, so what do you expect peopel to do with so much evidence beign thrown in their face all the time.

The same thing you should do with any and all evidence you are presented. Investigate it, research it and find out if it is true or not.

 

[Zecryphon]

IT may have olverwhelming evidence, but that doesnt over ride the evidence that other belief systems have. No matter to what extent that it is.

Evolution is out to prove that there is no God, and I have to say that some of the evidence is compelling stuff. People are more likely to trust science of what man says about a spiritual being whether we like it or not.

Evolution does not seek to disprove the existence of God, since evolution never addresses subjects such as: "where did the universe come from?" "What caused the Big Bang?" "Where did we come from" and "What is our purpose?" Since evolution never touches on these subjects it does not exist to disprove God. Now people may be using the theory to try and disprove God, but the do so erroneously. Anybody who has studied science or listened to their findings over the years is apt not to trust them because science is always correcting itself, which means that the previous consensus of the scientific community was wrong.

When I was in school we had 9 planets, absolutely, no doubt about it, 9 planets. Now we have 8. What happened? Science made a mistake. You can not trust a system that is always making corrections to what it believes, because that means, that what it believes at the moment is probably wrong and will be corrected at a later time. Why would anyone put their faith in something like that?

 

[Zecryphon]

Blerk, im done trying to explain my point to you people. I dont think you understand where Im coming from or what I mean

Of course we don't, because you never cite any sources for your claims. It's a bunch of hearsay. Look at your OP, a bunch of hearsay claims and not one shred of support for any of it. Until we know what your sources are for your information we have no way of proceeding in answering your statements. So do you have sources for your beliefs or are you just going with what you've heard?

 

[Zecryphon]

IF you cant figure it out, reread my posts, then reread your post.

Im not trying to explain it from Gods perspective, Im explaining it from what I have experienced it to be from a non christians perspecitve.

Its not an accurate guess, its a judgement. Do not judge me.

log⋅ic   /ˈlɒdʒ

ɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [loj-ik] Show IPA
–noun 1.the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.2.a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic. 3.the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.4.reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move. 5.convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts. 6.Computers. logic circuit.



log·ic (lŏj'ĭk) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.
2. 1. A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic.
   2. A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow.
   3. The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science.
   4. The nonarithmetic operations performed by a computer, such as sorting, comparing, and matching, that involve yes-no decisions.
   5. Computer circuitry.
   6. Graphic representation of computer circuitry.
3. Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
4. The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.

If the experiences you are relaying are coming from a non-Christian background, and from what it seems from your posts a current non-Christian life, what are you doing with a Christian icon?

 

[Zebra1552]

The question that I keep coming back to on this topic, is this: If a person does not like God in this life, why would that person want to spend eternity with Him?

They wouldn't. But they also likely dislike a caricature of God rather than God himself. You know, a genocidal egotistical maniac like Dawkins ascribes to.

 

[Zebra1552]

Im done talking with you on this view of mine.

Then have fun talking with my fellow brothers and sisters who also disagree with this view of yours.