Is it really a choice?

[elephunky]

Do people still consciously choose hell?

Why do you say to a child, 'This is your first warning, if it happens again you get a 5 min. time out'? To discipline them. So they will not influence other children to hit other people. What happens when they do it again and again and again with complete disregard for the consequences? Let me answer that too- they get kicked out. They don't get to be a part of the school anymore because of how much they threaten its stability.


Not really, that's a very poor analogy.

People arent chosing hell if they dont believe in it.

A child would know that the consequence of disobeying that parents because the result is phsical and they have no doubt experienced it before.

 

[Zebra1552]

People arent chosing hell if they dont believe in it.

That's not at all what the Bible says. There's no middle ground. Either you accept the Bible or you don't. If you don't, you're choosing not to believe and you are thus choosing hell. Check out the CS Lewis quote in my siggy.

A child would know that the consequence of disobeying that parents because the result is phsical and they have no doubt experienced it before.

Not all children, however, believe that their parents will actually follow through with the punishment, and many in fact do not.

 

[elephunky]

That's not at all what the Bible says. There's no middle ground. Either you accept the Bible or you don't. If you don't, you're choosing not to believe and you are thus choosing hell. Check out the CS Lewis quote in my siggy.


Not all children, however, believe that their parents will actually follow through with the punishment, and many in fact do not.

I think in those days there wasnt any questioning of whether it was real, people knew God existed but chose to reject him. If someone doesnt believe hin God, they are rejecting the idea of him, Its a little different dont you think?

Why would I want to send a letter to santa when I dont believe he exists.

Bad parenting is not my problem

 

[Zebra1552]

I think in those days there wasnt any questioning of whether it was real, people knew God existed but chose to reject him. If someone doesnt believe hin God, they are rejecting the idea of him, Its a little different dont you think?

Why would I want to send a letter to santa when I dont believe he exists.

No, I don't think it's any different. Any way you slice it, they're rejecting God.
Why would you not believe in Santa if you got coal every year?

Bad parenting is not my problem

No, but it relates to the analogy I'm using.

 

[elephunky]

No one gets coal, thats the point.

 

[elephunky]

Would I give an offering to a greek God or Goddess if I dont believe in them? Would I go around giving praise to buddha if I think he was just a wise man with no real spiritual significance in my life? Would I practise satanic rituals if I didnt owrship the devil?

 

[Zebra1552]

No one gets coal, thats the point.

Children are indeed given coal, though not by Santa. Similarly, prayers are answered, lives are restored, and people are made whole. There's plenty of evidence for God's existence.

Would I give an offering to a greek God or Goddess if I dont believe in them? Would I go around giving praise to buddha if I think he was just a wise man with no real spiritual significance in my life? Would I practise satanic rituals if I didnt owrship the devil?

That doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that they reject God. Because they are rejecting God, they are then choosing hell. You cannot avoid that.

 

[elephunky]

Children are indeed given coal, though not by Santa. Similarly, prayers are answered, lives are restored, and people are made whole. There's plenty of evidence for God's existence.

That doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that they reject God. Because they are rejecting God, they are then choosing hell. You cannot avoid that.

Lol they are not given coal. And that is only evidence to those who believe. Im sure that the psychics could give you evidence why it is real. As with those who belong to other religious and belief systems.

But, it proves that we do not have a choice. Hmmm, bowing down to god or eternity in hell, the term "well, doesnt look like i have a choice here" comes to mind.

We are to be living robots that turn on each other for the sake of argument

 

[Nadiine]

Originally Posted by dGirl1986

People arent chosing hell if they dont believe in it.
​

Actually they are - it's called "reality".
They know God becuz He's made Himself known to them as well
as His truth. They replaced that truth with their own & went
their own way.
IF God didn't draw everyone to Himself, you would have some merit
in that statement.

By default, that's what they're choosing to reject:
the true God and His righteousness when He convicts them of the sins
they commit and continued in them anyways.

Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

(prefering darkness over light - self over God).
John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

 

[elephunky]

ITs not hat God has made himself known to thema nd they have rejected the God himself. Its what people make him out to be and they see the crazy stuff people do in the name of God - they loook at stuff like that and just go, what a bunch of looneys., as far as they are concerned, they havent experienced him - therefore he must not be real.

 

[Zebra1552]

Lol they are not given coal. And that is only evidence to those who believe. Im sure that the psychics could give you evidence why it is real. As with those who belong to other religious and belief systems.

It's evidence all the same. Bringing up psychics isn't going to help your case here. The point is that there is a lot of credibility to Christianity and a lot of evidence backing it up. If you disagree with that, take it to CA.

But, it proves that we do not have a choice. Hmmm, bowing down to god or eternity in hell, the term "well, doesnt look like i have a choice here" comes to mind.

We are to be living robots that turn on each other for the sake of argument

None of what you've cited proves there is no choice, and you are oversimplifying the choice we have. You're giving a purely secular perspective. Not a wholistic one.

 

[elephunky]

Im not saying there is no evidence, I am saying that Christianity isnt the only one with the evidence, so what do you expect peopel to do with so much evidence beign thrown in their face all the time.

 

[Zebra1552]

Im not saying there is no evidence, I am saying that Christianity isnt the only one with the evidence, so what do you expect peopel to do with so much evidence beign thrown in their face all the time.

Christianity is indeed the only religion with overwhelming amounts of evidence to back it up. Two other major religions have the same roots- the Torah.

 

[elephunky]

IT may have olverwhelming evidence, but that doesnt over ride the evidence that other belief systems have. No matter to what extent that it is.

Evolution is out to prove that there is no God, and I have to say that some of the evidence is compelling stuff. People are more likely to trust science of what man says about a spiritual being whether we like it or not.

 

[one11]

IT may have olverwhelming evidence, but that doesnt over ride the evidence that other belief systems have. No matter to what extent that it is.

Evolution is out to prove that there is no God, and I have to say that some of the evidence is compelling stuff. People are more likely to trust science of what man says about a spiritual being whether we like it or not.

To get rid of your typos dgirl, simply right click on the word and there should be a list of the correct word you need.

Next, I'm not sure what you are trying to say? If people want to trust science more than love God who died for us, what are people supposed to do? Even Saint Paul mentioned if we marry and become unequally yoked there is no guarantee we will be able to save our spouse who is a non-believer that Christ is the Messiah. So a spouse cannot even save the person they love. It is a choice. We have to chose God, but he usually calls us first, I'd have to say.

Next, people trusting science gets a little too out of hand at times, case in point, Pluto is no longer a planet but a star. Pluto is too small to be considered a planet, so science taught us wrongly all those years.

 

[elephunky]

My point being - People dont see things the way we see things because there is so much conflicting evidence and opinions and dealings around them. They cant realistically make the choice to love him or hate him because all taht is around is telling them taht everything is a lie in a gain to control us.

 

[Zebra1552]

IT may have olverwhelming evidence, but that doesnt over ride the evidence that other belief systems have. No matter to what extent that it is.

Ma'm, that's the very definition of overwhelming evidence. So yes, it does override the evidence of other belief systems.

Evolution is out to prove that there is no God, and I have to say that some of the evidence is compelling stuff. People are more likely to trust science of what man says about a spiritual being whether we like it or not.

Evolution can only judge the origins of man, not the metaphysical (God). For it to do that, it would have to become philosophy rather than science.

 

[Zebra1552]

My point being - People dont see things the way we see things because there is so much conflicting evidence and opinions and dealings around them. They cant realistically make the choice to love him or hate him because all taht is around is telling them taht everything is a lie in a gain to control us.

They can make a choice and they do make a choice. They choose to do their own thing and reject God. There's no getting around that.

 

[one11]

My point being - People dont see things the way we see things because there is so much conflicting evidence and opinions and dealings around them. They cant realistically make the choice to love him or hate him because all taht is around is telling them taht everything is a lie in a gain to control us.

Oh to another point you made about evolution, lol, is that the creation account was written in Hebrew poetry.

Also, a day is not a 24-hour period in the Genesis account. People got that wrong, especially since the ancient Hebrew calendar was a lunar calendar.

Anyhow, to make my point about Genesis, read this about the "generations" which could mean eras, as a day can mean an era also.

Genesis

1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4: These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

****************

But to your point above, I still don't quite understand your point of view? Give an example of "conflicting evidence". And what is controlling us?

 

[skullkrusher]

ITs not hat God has made himself known to thema nd they have rejected the God himself. Its what people make him out to be and they see the crazy stuff people do in the name of God - they loook at stuff like that and just go, what a bunch of looneys., as far as they are concerned, they havent experienced him - therefore he must not be real.

It is essential we do not dismiss the message of Scripture (the Romans passage noted above). People are without excuse precisely because God has made Himself sufficiently know to all.

That said, your point about people rejecting Christ because of what they see in so many Christians is spot-on. In fact, this can actually be a very effective means of establishing rapport with nonbelievers -- too often Christians seem to feel compelled to defend anything and everything done in the name of the faith. This is unwise. It is important to be seen as a trustworthy witness, and you cannot be seen as such if you defend many of the defenseless deeds committed throughout the centuries. I believe we will give account, among other things, for what we have done that turned people off to the Gospel. Unbelievers often wrongly reject the truth for very right reasons. We ought to be able to affirm an unbeliever's valid criticism without thinking we are somehow being disloyal to Christ or the Church.