Is it really a choice?

[elephunky]

Problem?

 

[Nadiine]

Problem?

yes there is a problem, but I'll let the info argue against
drug use.

& I have personal experience with it in my past, so I'm
not ignorant about drugs by any means.
I wasn't finished w/ that post, I added links

 

[elephunky]

If thats the case, we shouldnt take antibiotics, panadol, things that help with our health.

 

[Nadiine]

If thats the case, we shouldnt take antibiotics, panadol, things that help with our health.

do they really help?
have you read the long list of side effects from pharmaceuticals?
Outside of the direct side effects, any nutritionist or Dr. will tell you that ALL medications practically ruin your liver if taken longer term -
esp. statin drugs - like to lower cholesterol, etc.
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/statin.html
this page gives the same info I've heard from nutritionists warnings of them

The issue is mind altering which "drunkeness" in Luke 21 in Greek
amounts to substances being used to alter the mind. (this
includes sniffing glue or whatever someone uses).

It's linked to sorcery/witchcraft in the definition; historically, drugs
were strictly used by people in the occult/pagans.

I don't believe meds are "good" for people; in that all they do is
solve or alleviate 1 problem while creating others (some very serious)
but if not misusing a medication for personal recreation, I don't
see how it's any sin.
Otherwise, asprin would be viewed as sin and to me that's absurd.

 

[sy1990]

it is totally our choice

we can choose to embrace god and all he has done for us like creating us

or we can choose to turn our backs on him
if we do that then how can we get into heaven if we dont want to be there really
some people say hell anyway is just an absence of god

 

[elephunky]

do they really help?
have you read the long list of side effects from pharmaceuticals?
Outside of the direct side effects, any nutritionist or Dr. will tell you that ALL medications practically ruin your liver if taken longer term -
esp. statin drugs - like to lower cholesterol, etc.
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/statin.html
this page gives the same info I've heard from nutritionists warnings of them

The issue is mind altering which "drunkeness" in Luke 21 in Greek
amounts to substances being used to alter the mind. (this
includes sniffing glue or whatever someone uses).

It's linked to sorcery/witchcraft in the definition; historically, drugs
were strictly used by people in the occult/pagans.

I don't believe meds are "good" for people; in that all they do is
solve or alleviate 1 problem while creating others (some very serious)
but if not misusing a medication for personal recreation, I don't
see how it's any sin.
Otherwise, asprin would be viewed as sin and to me that's absurd.

Without my ADD meds I would never have made it through school.

Without antibiotics my bronchitis would worsen and turn into something more serious that could kill me.

The list goes on.

It may have been used by people who were into stuff we deemed evil, but good can be taken from these situations.

 

[Nadiine]

Without my ADD meds I would never have made it through school.

Without antibiotics my bronchitis would worsen and turn into something more serious that could kill me.

The list goes on.

It may have been used by people who were into stuff we deemed evil, but good can be taken from these situations.

It looks to me like you're attacking positions I never took here
and reading things into my statements.

I simply gave a much overlooked and ignored medical fact about these
drugs people take so carelessly without research.

As I had stated, they help 1 thing yet cause other damage. I never
said they're useless or da debil or any such thing.
Just that people have to be aware they aren't healthy.

 

[elephunky]

Just that people have to be aware they aren't healthy.

People arent stupid, they are aware that with all medication there are risks, and those risks are always stated on teh product.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Here is a verse that shows that not all whom saith unto him Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

So you believe that all these people make an empty confession of "Lord, Lord" which is SIN... to the glory of God the Father? To the GLORY of His Name?

No one is doubting that come judgment day everyone will bow down to God. At that point, no one can deny Him. What we are saying is that, that action does not mean God is going to save everyone. That's something that is prophesied to happen, not something that automatically makes someone save.

Besides He gave us an analogy between the narrow and broad road. If He thought EVERYONE would be saved, why would He even mention those roads dealing with life (narrow road) or death (broad road)? Why then would He have so many parables about hell? Sorry The Lord did not lie. The prophecy will come true but that prophecy does not say for ALL will be saved at that time.

And if scripture says these people says "Lord, Lord" and doesn't call that a sin, I am not going to presume that their confession is empty and that it is sin. If you want to argue with Matthew 7:21 go right on ahead. And also Romans 14:23 is used out of context, because it is dealing with making a brother stumble based on the food they were eating while Matthew 7:21 is dealing with judgment day.

Edit: I went back and read Romans 14:23 and realized that the context was not communion.

 

[Nadiine]

People arent stupid, they are aware that with all medication there are risks, and those risks are always stated on teh product.

I didn't SAY they were stupid -
the correct word would be ignorant, and sorry but many people ARE ignorant that medication is harmful.
They tend to think that if they don't suffer severe side effects
from it (the risks), that it's good for them.

I know of no "safe" medication even when someone doesn't suffer
adverse side effects.
But again, we agree that medications can be and are helpful -
but it's so often abused when people get addicted to many of them
and they're prescribed for people who shouldn't even take them.

Anyways, I don't plan on continuing a medication discussion, I think
most of this is just common sense and obvious.
Your post used the word "drugs", drugs and medication don't have
the same meaning.

 

[elephunky]

drug

1   /drʌg/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [druhg] Show IPA noun, verb, drugged, drug⋅ging. –noun 1. Pharmacology. a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being. 2. (in federal law) a. any substance recognized in the official pharmacopoeia or formulary of the nation. b. any substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in humans or other animals. c. any article, other than food, intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of humans or other animals. d. any substance intended for use as a component of such a drug, but not a device or a part of a device.

 

[Zecryphon]

Anyways, I don't plan on continuing a medication discussion, I think most of this is just common sense and obvious.

Good, cuz I was gonna start throwing Vicodin at you, with the understanding that I get it back. LOL I need my Vicodin for my knees.

 

[Rick Otto]

The pharmo-...pffft! The drug use criticised in scripture was religious.
Therapeutic applications weren't being addressed.
Not that therapeutic applications are free of ethical restraint, rather they are simply not being addressed in that particular passage.

 

[Rick Otto]

it is totally our choice

we can choose to embrace god and all he has done for us like creating us

or we can choose to turn our backs on him
if we do that then how can we get into heaven if we dont want to be there really
some people say hell anyway is just an absence of god

 

[Nadiine]

Good, cuz I was gonna start throwing Vicodin at you, with the understanding that I get it back. LOL I need my Vicodin for my knees.

hey, we can have a meds fight =)~

 

[Nadiine]

The pharmo-...pffft! The drug use criticised in scripture was religious.
Therapeutic applications weren't being addressed.
Not that therapeutic applications are free of ethical restraint, rather they are simply not being addressed in that particular passage.

So you're going to tell us that street drugs are fine as Christians?

 

[Zecryphon]

hey, we can have a meds fight =)~

Okay, I'm armed with Lexapro, Vicodin, Valium, Klonopin, Xanax, Naproxen and Hydrocodone. Granted I only take the Lexapro, Vicodin, Klonopin and Naproxen, now. But I have the others from a couple of years ago. What are you bringing to this fight?

 

[Zecryphon]

So you're going to tell us that street drugs are fine as Christians?

That's not the impression I got from his post. I think what Rick was trying to say is that to apply that scripture in Luke to pharmaceuticals or any drugs is wrong because drunkenness and the cares of this life are what's being addressed there, not mind altering substances. Now there is a verse in the OT that discusses drug use for religious worship and of course, it's forbidden by God, but that verse still doesn't apply to the position you're taking against the use and abuse of pharmaceuticals.

 

[Nadiine]

That's not the impression I got from his post. I think what Rick was trying to say is that to use that scripture about pharmaceuticals or any drugs is wrong because drunkenness is being addressed there, not mind altering substances. Now there is a verse in the OT that discusses drug use for religious worship and of course, it's forbidden by God, but that verse still doesn't apply to the position you're taking against the use and abuse of pharmaceuticals.

oh ok thanks.

but I'm not referring to pharmaceuticals (even tho they can be
considered sin when abused) - the OP was (I guess).
She brought up that "drugs" weren't bad, just how we use them.

I assumed she meant drugs like cocaine, heroine, pot,
ecstacy, crack, etc.

& the word drunkenness there is to be 'intoxicated' - meaning
something altering your mental state.
The issue isn't drinking to excess, it's what the excess does to
you. The effects of something that alter your actions

I think we all know that drugs and alcohol both work on the
mind to remove our inhibitions and cause us to do things we
wouldn't in a sober state.
In fact that's WHY they are used most of the time.

In a documentary I saw on strippers and prostitution & porn
actors, it was a common theme that drugs & alcohol were used
to help them be able to perform.

Drug use was heavily and commonly used in occultism (I'm not
sure if it is today?) But I think that should tell us the source right there and that it's not ok for people to get into.

 

[Nadiine]

Okay, I'm armed with Lexapro, Vicodin, Valium, Klonopin, Xanax, Naproxen and Hydrocodone. Granted I only take the Lexapro, Vicodin, Klonopin and Naproxen, now. But I have the others from a couple of years ago. What are you bringing to this fight?

asprin?

I'm not on any meds - but this sure explains your posts


I've often wondered if I might need some Lithium when my next
anniversary at CF comes around tho.