Is it possible..

[Soverinth]

Is is possible to be neither Arminian or Calvinist?

 

[elopez]

Yes. Right here.

 

[Soverinth]

Well i meant like why does there have to be this Arminian or Calvinist lable over everything, why can't people just be Christians.

 

[elopez]

You don't have to pick or choose which camp in order to be a Christian. If you believe in one or the others doctrines then go from there. If not, then do you.

 

[Nails74]

Well i meant like why does there have to be this Arminian or Calvinist lable over everything, why can't people just be Christians.

Hey again armizer

There does not have to be a label, and many do not specifically identify themselves as either. However, once you get to the heart of the issue, people who care about consistency are either on one side or the other....whether they will admit it or not.

 

[ErminlindaRika]

That's kinda difficult. I would consider myself Arminian.

 

[Soverinth]

eyyyy whats up Nails?


Just from all that I've been learning, i'm starting to think i am more of a Lutheran.

Right now i don't think i am any main denomination, just seeking Christian but i think i am starting to steer more towards Lutheran.

 

[pshun2404]

PLus you can look at the early church, also Roman Catholcism, Orthodox...none of these are either either...

Paul

 

[Nails74]

PLus you can look at the early church, also Roman Catholcism, Orthodox...none of these are either either...

Paul

If you want to go back further than Beza and Arminius, take a look at Augustine and Pelagius....and you could certainly refer to the RCC as semi-Pelagian in their view of salvation.

Further back than that...just read John 6 or Romans 9

 

[ahooper239]

I personally think those labels are insignificant. I refer to myself and all of my other fellow believers as Christians, not their denominational ties. I also do not think any Christian should refer to themselves as "Baptist, Lutheran, etc." When you do, it's as if you're saying, "My denomination is completely right and all others are wrong. We have God's word completely figured out."
However, when you really piece together your doctrinal views, I feel that you will either be in the Armenian camp or the Calvinist camp, split majoratively by whether you believe in divine election or not. While my doctrinal views would show me to be a Calvinist, or a Reformed Doctrine believer, I only refer to myself as a Christian. Belief in Christ as our atonement for sins is the only thing that matters. Everything else is insignificant in comparison.

 

[pshun2404]

But Armizer, when you explore these histories, beware the period of devils which for the Roman Catholics spanned the time from the late 1400’s through 1600, and for the protestants was led by that evil one who against everything Christian and in the name of Christ murdered 58 men and at least 24 women (publicly torturing at least 15 falsely accusing them of causing the plague) and banished 76. Their crime was mostly publicly questioning his doctrine (of which none of the earliest teachers among those taught by the men the Apostles themselves taught ever adhered to). For those anti-Christs await judgment for what they did to the least of His brethren. All of these evil ones convinced whatever evils they did it had to be God’s will (much like today’s militant Islamic hordes) will see it was all of their own perverted lust for power and be judged according to their works. May the Lord have mercy on their souls.

In His love

Paul

 

[Soverinth]

But Armizer, when you explore these histories, beware the period of devils which for the Roman Catholics spanned the time from the late 1400’s through 1600, and for the protestants was led by that evil one who against everything Christian and in the name of Christ murdered 58 men and at least 24 women (publicly torturing at least 15 falsely accusing them of causing the plague) and banished 76. Their crime was mostly publicly questioning his doctrine (of which none of the earliest teachers among those taught by the men the Apostles themselves taught ever adhered to). For those anti-Christs await judgment for what they did to the least of His brethren. All of these evil ones convinced whatever evils they did it had to be God’s will (much like today’s militant Islamic hordes) will see it was all of their own perverted lust for power and be judged according to their works. May the Lord have mercy on their souls.

In His love

Paul

Alright but that doesn't really answer my main question.

What were you responding to?

 

[pshun2404]

Just that there are about four or five Christian viewpoints and interpretations and you must explore them all and read the various arguments for and against all of them, but most importantly prayerfully read the Bible and let God speak to your heart. When you wonder about a subject of Scripture read all the word has to say on the matter and let the Holy Spirit be your guide. But do not just believe something because it is the popular view, or because it is the one you hear the popular teachers preaching or because it is the perspective you have been taught. We are one body of many members and no denomination has a hold on the truth. Beware of false teachers and false prophets among us.

In His name

Paul

 

[AlphaTeam]

Is is possible to be neither Arminian or Calvinist?

I think I am currently somewhere in the middle.
I do believe in the "perseverance of the saints" for example, but not in "irresistible grace".

 

[Radagast]

Is is possible to be neither Arminian or Calvinist?

Arminian and Calvinist (Neo-Calvinist/Dortian/Monergist) are two points on a spectrum. One can be hyper-Calvinist, on one extreme, or Pelagian, on the other extreme, or Molinist (which is in the middle somewhere, but closer to Arminian), or Thomist (which is very close to Calvinist), or various other things.

Be aware that what you may not be fully understanding Arminianism and Calvinism, so you may be thinking of two points on the spectrum different from true Arminianism and Calvinism.

Fundamental to it all is (1) where you get theological truth from (from intuition? from tradition? from the Bible?), and (2) what your idea of God is.

Hope that helps.

 

[Radagast]

You don't have to pick or choose which camp in order to be a Christian.

That too.

 

[Radagast]

PLus you can look at the early church, also Roman Catholcism...

Among Catholics, the same spectrum exists, but it's called Jansenist - Thomist - Molinist - Pelagian.

The Jansenist and Pelagian extremes are heretical, from a Catholic perspective.

Some Catholics call themselves "Augustinian," but Jansenists, Thomists, and Molinists all claimed to be true to what Augustine had said. Cornelis Jansen, in particular, had read Augustine's works on grace 30 times!

 

[HawkBlue27]

Molinism?

 

[Radagast]

Molinism?

What about Molinism?

 

[pshun2404]

Sorry!

You asked, "Is is possible to be neither Arminian or Calvinist?"

The direct and total answer is "Yes!"

Be blessed

Paul