motherprayer
Elisha
The Bible speaks of the elect. We just have differing interpretations of who the elect is.
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So you deny that the Bible speaks of group of people called "the elect"? The "idea of the elect" as you called it is not our idea, but the Bible's idea.
The Bible speaks of the elect. We just have differing interpretations of who the elect is.
Not sure I have seen posts here NOT giving God the credit. Neither any post saying the Bible does not mention 'elect'.
Is the real controversy that God elects some to salvation then by default he has elected the rest to not salvation. Which raises some big issues.
So what is your interpretation?
Mine is: God's chosen people. After all the word "elect" means "chosen".
How could you possibly differ from this?
I don't. It is who God's chosen people are that we differ on. I believe that everyone born has the potential to come to Christ.
I don't believe God plays the lottery.
I believe He calls, but He offers a choice. I could turn from Christ today, and He would allow me to leave. He would call me back, and I could either turn away, or come back.
I don't believe in once saved always saved either, but I don't believe one can "lose" their salvation, but rather they have to make a conscious choice in giving it away.
I believe that God guarantees the salvation of everyone who responds to the call and perserveres.
I don't believe that there is a single person born who has not the ability to know Christ.
So what is your interpretation?
Mine is: God's chosen people. After all the word "elect" means "chosen".
How could you possibly differ from this?
So do God's NOT chosen people have any chance of getting saved ?
What percentage of the population in history would you say are NOT chosen.
I am just getting a bit edgey in case I turn out to be one of them.
Who is God's chosen people then? Everyone? The whole human race is God's chosen people?
I don't. It is who God's chosen people are that we differ on. I believe that everyone born has the potential to come to Christ.
I don't believe God plays the lottery.
I believe He calls, but He offers a choice. I could turn from Christ today, and He would allow me to leave. He would call me back, and I could either turn away, or come back.
I don't believe in once saved always saved either, but I don't believe one can "lose" their salvation, but rather they have to make a conscious choice in giving it away.
I believe that God guarantees the salvation of everyone who responds to the call and perserveres.
I don't believe that there is a single person born who has not the ability to know Christ.
Of course we all have flaws in our understanding of God.
Jack, God's chosen people are believers.
So if you re-word your questions to:
So do NOT believing people have any chance of getting saved ?
What percentage of the population in history would you say are NOT believers.
If you answer those two questions, you end up with the exact same answer for your original questions.
So, what is your answer for these questions?
The question is do loving people have a chance of receiving eternal life? Do wicked and unloving people have a chance of receiving eternal life? Apparently according to Revelation there will be a vast number too many to count in heaven.
Exactly. This is why we should refrain from being combative with those who differ. Through my conversations with Calvinists, because I have been open to what teachings they have to offer and refused to scream "FALSE RELIGION" at them whenever I see a thread where they post, I have been able to come to a better understanding of Christ.
No man could ever know the fullness of the mystery that is God. Having the same mind of Christ means being open to Spiritual teaching from ANY source.
The question is do loving people have a chance of receiving eternal life? Do wicked and unloving people have a chance of receiving eternal life? Apparently according to Revelation there will be a vast number too many to count in heaven.
Who God's chosen people are, can only be answered by God Himself. We have not the wisdom to know.
What concerns me about the doctrine of the elect is that there are so many people who know Christ, desire Christ, and love Christ, but get caught up in the fear that they are not the elect. We shouldn't concern ourselves with such things.
We should focus our attention on loving others, in my case, because of the hope that they will learn who Christ is, in yours, just in case they are an elect.
There is no pride from the way that I believe, because God deserves all the credit in both your and my view, in yours, because you are not responsible for your salvation, and in mine, because I wouldn't even have had the chance to be saved if God had not first died on the cross for me, and then allowed me to live as a sinner until I came to know the Truth of His love for me.
The only real fundamental thing we disagree on is how many people have the chance to throw themselves on the cross and ask Him into their heart
If you affirm both
1) God regenerates monergistically
2) God desires all to be saved
Why doesn't God regenerate all? He could easily accomplish #2 by employing #1.
It seems like an incoherent belief to affirm both of those as true.
Chance? Since when does there exist "chance" with an all sovereign, all knowing, all powerful God as ours?
It is incoherent. But it's also biblical. The Scriptures affirm that God is the sole agent in our salvation, having unconditionally predestined us in Christ; simultaneously Scripture affirms that it is God's will and desire that all believe and be saved.
Your question is known as the Crux Theologorum, it's an unanswerable question because we cannot reconcile these two statements in a rational and coherent way.
Why are some saved and not others? God only knows.
It's a paradox of faith.
-CryptoLutheran
As I'm sure you know, chance is the core, foundational thing in synergism.
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