Is it possible we have been lied to for years?

[Always in His Presence]

You agree with women (and gays) being given positions of power?

Yup. Just like President does.

 

[Always in His Presence]

You made the claim that it would be against forum rules to call Mr. Trump a fascist. It is therefore incumbent on you to defend your claim. Where, exactly, do the rules specify anything that would make calling Mr. Trump a fascist a violation of the rules?

My pleasure:

Terms and rules

You must agree to these terms and rules before using the site.

www.christianforums.com

Quote:

• Offensive derogatory nicknames and egregious inflammatory comments about public figures may be considered goading.

Then look here that goes into further detail:

Admin Announcement - A list of unacceptable nicknames

There continues to be problems with posters using labels and unpleasant nicknames for public figures and groups. As this has become an issue around the site, we are creating this list and attaching a link to the flaming rule. It is not meant to be all-inclusive and will be edited as needed. Do...

www.christianforums.com

​

Do not call either political party in the US or members thereof Fascist, or Socialist*, or Marxist or Communist. Do not call the leaders Hitler.​

There ya go - plain English word for word and linked: You are very welcome

 

[Postvieww]

I've heard on this very board that simply breaking the law doesn't make one a criminal. To achieve that status, one has to have been tried, convicted and sentenced.

There is absolutely no moral equivalence between illegal aliens invading our borders and political lawfare against Trump.

 

[expos4ever]

There ya go - plain English word for word and linked: You are very welcome

You are correct - it is against rules.

To me, the term "fascist" is a legitimate technical that does not cross the line between an accurate representation of a political view and needlessly demonizing language.

From wikipedia: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3] Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, egalitarianism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism,[4][5] fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.[6][5][7]

It seems to me that if we believe a person fits this definition, it is entirely reasonable to call them a "fascist" rather than to write this all out. However, I will concede that the term is often used in a non-technical sense with the intention to inflame and ratchet up the rhetoric. I assume that is why the term is "banned" and that seems reasonable to me.

So, in future, I will be careful to describe Mr. Trump as committed to "authoritarianism, forcible suppression of opposition, and pursuit of the interests of the tribe or nation". And, as always and as appropriate, I will defend the use of such a characterization with credible evidence.

And I will eschew the use of the term "fascist".

 

[Postvieww]

So, in future, I will be careful to describe Mr. Trump as committed to "authoritarianism, forcible suppression of opposition, and pursuit of the interests of the tribe, nation, or race". And, as always and as appropriate, I will defend the use of such a characterization with credible evidence.

You have no CREDIBLE evidence for your false claims. This very approach is why your party lost the election!

And I will eschew the use of the term "fascist".

I hope you can stick to that promise but I doubt it.

 

[Postvieww]

Oh my. We do not need to be told he hates immigrants - his own words show that he demonizes them. I would not be surprised if Mr. Trump personally does not hate immigrants, but he obviously believes that his base does.

He has said that "undocumented immigrants were “poisoning the blood of our country,” using language that is often employed by white supremacists.

We are not "told" that he said this - he actually said this.

And he has also said this:

My first day back at the White House, I will terminate every open-borders policy of the Biden administration, stop the invasion of our Southern border and begin the largest domestic deportation operation in American history,

This is what is so pernicious about this issue. You can claim that the term "invasion" is not a fear-mongering distortion. But we all know what is going on - it is a carefully chosen word intended to wildly exaggerate the problem and appeal to xenophobic sentiments.

And Trump has also said this:

“We have people coming into the country or trying to come in, we're stopping a lot of them, but we're taking people out of the country. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals."

There is no debate: whether or not Mr. Trump actually believes what he is saying is, of course, hard to know. But, it is beyond above obvious, as the above examples show, that he is stooping to the worst kind of demonizing rhetoric to appeal to xenophobia in the American electorate.

His own words prove this - whether people lie about him or not.

So sad . Some still don’t understand why democrats lost the election.

 

[expos4ever]

So sad . Some still don’t understand why democrats lost the election.

Like others, you are evading. And I believe it is because you know that Trump has said demonizing things about immigrants - how could you deny this, his own words betray him. So you deflect. Why the Democrats lost the election in no way excuses Mr. Trump from using such demonizing language to characterize immigrants.

 

[expos4ever]

You have no CREDIBLE evidence for your false claims.

Ah, but I certainly do! Loads of it to be posted later.

Do you seriously believe that there is no case that Trump is an authoritarian?

This very approach is why your party lost the election!

Not my party - I am not even an American.

I hope you can stick to that promise but I doubt it.

Speculation.

 

[Always in His Presence]

You are correct - it is against rules.

To me, the term "fascist" is a legitimate technical that does not cross the line between an accurate representation of a political view and needlessly demonizing language.

From wikipedia: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3] Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, egalitarianism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism,[4][5] fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.[6][5][7]

It seems to me that if we believe a person fits this definition, it is entirely reasonable to call them a "fascist" rather than to write this all out. However, I will concede that the term is often used in a non-technical sense with the intention to inflame and ratchet up the rhetoric. I assume that is why the term is "banned" and that seems reasonable to me.

So, in future, I will be careful to describe Mr. Trump as committed to "authoritarianism, forcible suppression of opposition, and pursuit of the interests of the tribe or nation". And, as always and as appropriate, I will defend the use of such a characterization with credible evidence.

And I will eschew the use of the term "fascist".

Please do - but please also hold yourself to the same standards of proof you require from others. And news articles are typically skewed on way or another.

 

[Postvieww]

Like others, you are evading. And I believe it is because you know that Trump has said demonizing things about immigrants - how could you deny this, his own words betray him. So you deflect. Why the Democrats lost the election in no way excuses Mr. Trump from using such demonizing language to characterize immigrants.

No evading here. Trump is pro legal immigration and anti border invaders. Trump is for eligible immigrants and against criminals, gangs, human trafficking, and drugs. If MANY liberals could figure out how to make this distinction we could move on from this factless charge against Trump.

 

[DaisyDay]

No evading here. Trump is pro legal immigration and anti border invaders.

Selectively. In his book, The Art of the Deal, he bragged about hiring illegal Polish workers. He had them removing asbestos without having to provide pricey protective gear.(Linkie) And workers, undocumented immigrants, testified that they worked for years at Mar-a-Lago. (Linkie)

Trump is for eligible immigrants and against criminals, gangs, human trafficking, and drugs. If MANY liberals could figure out how to make this distinction we could move on from this factless charge against Trump.

Again, selectively. The Haitians he slandered, "They're eating the cats! They're eating the dogs!" are here legally. He has said he would like to revoke their status. (Linkie).

As for human trafficking, when asked about convicted human trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell, he only remarked, "I wish her well." We know Mr. Trump took partied with the notorious child sex trafficker, Jeffry Epstein. (Linkie)

However, in a 2002 profile of Epstein from New York magazine, Trump was quoted as saying: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”​

As for being against drugs, it's possible but his White House was rife with prescription drugs (linkie]), thanks to Ronny Jackson allegedly.

He is credibly anti-gang.

 

[Postvieww]

Selectively. In his book, The Art of the Deal, he bragged about hiring illegal Polish workers. He had them removing asbestos without having to provide pricey protective gear.(Linkie) And workers, undocumented immigrants, testified that they worked for years at Mar-a-Lago. (Linkie)

Again, selectively. The Haitians he slandered, "They're eating the cats! They're eating the dogs!" are here legally. He has said he would like to revoke their status. (Linkie).

As for human trafficking, when asked about convicted human trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell, he only remarked, "I wish her well." We know Mr. Trump took partied with the notorious child sex trafficker, Jeffry Epstein. (Linkie)

However, in a 2002 profile of Epstein from New York magazine, Trump was quoted as saying: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”​

As for being against drugs, it's possible but his White House was rife with prescription drugs (linkie]), thanks to Ronny Jackson allegedly.

He is credibly anti-gang.

How did this tactic work out for you in the last election? Keep up the effort so we can again win big in two years.

 

[DaisyDay]

How did this tactic work out for you in the last election?

What "tactic" are you accusing me of? Posting facts with links to sources unfavorable to Donald?

Keep up the effort so we can again win big in two years.

Okay. I do understand that facts, even documented facts, don't have the power that tribalism has.

 

[DaisyDay]

We all lived through four years of Trump before and survived - I wouldn't worry so much if I were you - and I would recommend that you actually read the Book of Mormon - at the very least so you won't appear so foolish again when talking about it.

Many people did not survive. I remember the death counts from covid.

 

[DaisyDay]

The Haitian migrants - not immigrants - have been taking people's pets and killing them to eat and for rituals. This is just reality.

That is false. Certain people have made the claim, but without evidence (other than a friend of a neighbor's friend's daughter may have said so, again without evidence). Repeating a scurrilous lie doesn't change it from being a lie.

 

[Zaha Torte]

No, Donald Trump and JD Vance simply declared over and over that they did even though the Haitians did not.

They did though. Loads of residents of Springfield have said so and there are police reports stating it happened.

I have also seen video of totems - or whatever they are called - staked pigs heads at crossroads in Springfield - that never were there before - and a guy drove around and saw nine car accidents in a single day in Springfield - every single one involving a Haitian migrant.

They were just brought here with no vetting - without properly seeking entry - and were just dumped in a little town in Ohio.

Culture clash is the least of their worries.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Many people did not survive. I remember the death counts from covid.

More died under Biden.

 

[Zaha Torte]

That is false. Certain people have made the claim, but without evidence (other than a friend of a neighbor's friend's daughter may have said so, again without evidence). Repeating a scurrilous lie doesn't change it from being a lie.

By "evidence" you mean them finding the carcass int he possession of a Haitian migrant?

How would citizens go about obtaining such "evidence"?

 

[DaisyDay]

They did though. Loads of residents of Springfield have said so and there are police reports stating it happened.

Well, then, it should be trivially easy for you to back this up with some evidence. Will you?

I have also seen video of totems - or whatever they are called - staked pigs heads at crossroads in Springfield - that never were there before - and a guy drove around and saw nine car accidents in a single day in Springfield - every single one involving a Haitian migrant.

Again, evidence?

They were just brought here with no vetting - without properly seeking entry - and were just dumped in a little town in Ohio.

That is patently false. They were vetted - no Tonton Macoute permitted. No one was "dumped" but many were recruited to work there because there were not enough locals willing or able to do the jobs necessary.

Culture clash is the least of their worries.

Vigilantes might be quite a bit higher on the list of Springfield's concerns.

More died under Biden.

But your claim was that everyone survived the last Trump administration.

By "evidence" you mean them finding the carcass int he possession of a Haitian migrant?

Your claim is that the Haitians are stealing and eating pets, e.g. the cats and dogs. What evidence do you have that supports this bald assertion?

How would citizens go about obtaining such "evidence"?

Police reports, phone videos, something..... Is this your admission that there is nothing but gossip and grotesque libels?

Springfield police say no reports of pets stolen, eaten, after viral social media post

The Springfield Police Division said Monday they have received no reports related to pets being stolen and eaten.

www.springfieldnewssun.com

 

[expos4ever]

You have no CREDIBLE evidence for your false claims.

One of my claims is that Mr. Trump is an authoritarian. Well, here is one item of evidence: Former defense secretary under President Trump, Mark Esper, and, yes, former chief of staff of the conservative Heritage Foundation, reports that Mr. Trump said the following in a discussion about protestors:

"We reached that point in the conversation where he looked frankly at [Joint Chiefs of Staff] Gen. [Mark] Milley and said, 'Can't you just shoot them, just shoot them in the legs or something?' ... It was a suggestion and a formal question. And we were just all taken aback at that moment as this issue just hung very heavily in the air."

"Just shoot them in legs"?! Imagine if President Obama ever said such a thing.