Is it Possible to Freeze with Lasers?

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I haven't been feeling well lately, some kind of virus; but even if I was at my best, I might have difficulty wrapping my mind around this one.

Is it possible to freeze with lasers?

The creator of this video purports that, theoretically, lasers could be magnified to to generate temperatures which approach 0 Kelvin; if I understand him correctly.

 
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HARK!

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IMHO this is nonsense...

I'm looking into buying a vacuum chamber, and that is how I stumbled onto this video. I watched some of his videos concerning vacuum chambers; and he seemed like a credible source. I'm now questioning that initial impression.
 
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I can be wrong but I worked with lasers for the military. The 'science' he is presenting when the subject switches to cooling doesn't stack up.

I've worked with lasers; but I didn't get that deep into it. My boss, at the time, got one of his first jobs with a surgical laser company. He told me some interesting facts; but this seems completely counter-intuitive to me.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I've worked with lasers; but I didn't get that deep into it. My boss, at the time, got one of his first jobs with a surgical laser company. He told me some interesting facts; but this seems completely counter-intuitive to me.

Same
 
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sjastro

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There is nothing mysterious about laser cooling.
Laser cooling has been used to cool gases down to temperatures barely above absolute zero.

The two important points two consider are;
(1) The temperature of a gas is determined by its average kinetic energy.
(2) Photons are absorbed and emitted by individual atoms and molecules which reduces the average kinetic energy of the gas hence the temperature is reduced.

A good description of how this occurs is given in this video.

 
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There is nothing mysterious about laser cooling.
Laser cooling has been used to cool gases down to temperatures barely above absolute zero.

The two important points two consider are;
(1) The temperature of a gas is determined by its average kinetic energy.
(2) Photons are absorbed and emitted by individual atoms and molecules which reduces the average kinetic energy of the gas hence the temperature is reduced.

A good description of how this occurs is given in this video.


Well that was a very interesting video; but those setups were a wee bit more complicated than putting a magnifying glass between a laser and a black napkin.
 
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sjastro

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Over simplified or Baloney?
Definitely baloney.
In a gas the atoms and molecules are mobile so when a photon is absorbed part of the energy is converted into kinetic energy which is transferred to the atom and molecule.
In the original video the atoms in the substrate are not mobile and are rigidly bonded.
In this case the energy of the photon is partly converted into heat not kinetic energy.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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I haven't been feeling well lately, some kind of virus; but even if I was at my best, I might have difficulty wrapping my mind around this one.

Is it possible to freeze with lasers?

The creator of this video purports that, theoretically, lasers could be magnified to to generate temperatures which approach 0 Kelvin; if I understand him correctly.

You can lower temperatures with lasers, but that's not what Action Lab is doing - he's using the laser to produce negative temperatures, which are hotter than positive temperatures. It's partly quantum mechanics and partly the way temperature is defined. AFAICS, his explanation is correct.

See Negative Kelvin? (nasa.gov)
 
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Trusting in Him

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If this is true, which sounds a bit strange to me, I have my doubts whether it can be scaled up to be economically viable on any meaningful level. Laser technology is not new, it is a mature technology. If there was a viable way to make money from producing refridgeration technology from this idea, it would already be currently produced for profit. As far as I know this does not seem to have happened, so I think it's a bit doubtful so far!
 
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You can lower temperatures with lasers, but that's not what Action Lab is doing - he's using the laser to produce negative temperatures, which are hotter than positive temperatures. It's partly quantum mechanics and partly the way temperature is defined. AFAICS, his explanation is correct.

See Negative Kelvin? (nasa.gov)

An easy to comprehend tutorial was posted in Post #7
 
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sjastro

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You can lower temperatures with lasers, but that's not what Action Lab is doing - he's using the laser to produce negative temperatures, which are hotter than positive temperatures. It's partly quantum mechanics and partly the way temperature is defined. AFAICS, his explanation is correct.

See Negative Kelvin? (nasa.gov)
OK the video is referring to negative temperatures rather than cooling but it is still wrong.
The laser itself isn't at a negative temperature nor is it producing negative temperatures.
The medium producing the laser is at a negative temperature.
This is the key to the production of lasers where the atoms in the medium are in an inverted statistical distribution where more atoms are in the excited state than in the ground state.
Photons are produced when an atom returns to the ground state.

A better explanation of negative temperature is found in this video.

 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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OK the video is referring to negative temperatures rather than cooling but it is still wrong.
The laser itself isn't at a negative temperature nor is it producing negative temperatures.
The medium producing the laser is at a negative temperature.
This is the key to the production of lasers where the atoms in the medium are in an inverted statistical distribution where more atoms are in the excited state than in the ground state.
Photons are produced when an atom returns to the ground state.

A better explanation of negative temperature is found in this video.

OK - it's a technically tricky thing to get one's head around, but the point was that it's not laser cooling.

Thanks for the Sixty Symbols link, I knew I'd come across the negative temperature idea before - that was it :cool:
 
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Hans Blaster

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The medium producing the laser is at a negative temperature.
This is the key to the production of lasers where the atoms in the medium are in an inverted statistical distribution where more atoms are in the excited state than in the ground state.

When I saw the head and first couple posts. This is what I immediately thought of: Population inversion. I don't think the "temperature of the beam" has any real meaning. (The laser beam is a coherent, monochromatic beam of photons. Temperature is not really a good description of it.)

There are several kinds of temperature. We mostly think of a collisional temperature related (in a gas) to the average kinetic energy of the gas particles.

As some of these videos have noted, there is also an "excitation temperature" for quantum mechanical systems. For a two level system (with a lower state "0" and upper state "1") the ratio of the number of atoms in each state is:

excitation.png

Where "n" is the number in each state, "g" is the "quantum degeneracy" (assume both are the same for simplicity), "E" is the (positive) difference in energy between the two states (the excitation energy) and "k" is the Boltzmann constant that translates the units of energy and temperature.

For positive temperatures, as T goes to 0 the exponential goes to zero and all are in the lower state (none in the upper state). As T goes to infinity, E/kT goes to 0 and exp(0) = 1, so the ratio of populations is the ratio of quantum degeneracies. (The ground state of hydrogen is an s(1/2) state, so it has a degeneracy of 2, etc.)

If there *are* more in the upper state than the lower state, then the excitation temperature is negative, starting with negative infinity, since both positive and negative are reached at the limit where the populations are equal, one from "above" and one from below. Negative zero (T=-0) is reached when the population is fully inverted (n_0 = 0) and the ratio goes to infinity and exp (-E/kT) goes to + infinity.

In systems where the atoms are in collisional equilibrium the kinetic and thermal temperatures are the same, and the formula can be used to derive the populations based on the kinetic temperature.
 
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