Is it possible to be sinless for 5 seconds straight?

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes my friend, it actually is. As I wrote in my post which you so kindly want to ride roughshod over, especially as you seem to want to intentionally ignore the fact that I immediately quoted the Scripture for the reason I gave an emphatic yes. Never mind though I'll requote my own post here just so it doesn't get lost in your emphatic spewing out a one way dialogue.

Well, I addressed each of your verses with more Scripture verses of my own, so I don't see how that is true.

I answered this in the earlier post too, which seems to have gotten overlooked also. You keep on stating that the sanctification of the Spirit is Him helping us to live holy lives, as simply a fact. What I pointed out in the previous post, which I will copy again here, is that our Sanctification is that we are made holy unto the Lord, as God the Holy Spirit regenerates us in our baptism, uniting us in the death and life of Christ. Obviously, there will be righteous works that are the fruit of a sanctified life (which is what James refers to), but they flow FROM our justification and sanctification in Christ.

So you believe Sanctification plays a part in the salvation process? I don't get that impression because you imply you are sinner (present tense) saved by God's grace, and you said that you are not saved by anything you do but it is only in having a belief in Jesus. Sanctification (Living Holy by God moving in us to do the good work) obviously requires some kind of cooperation on our part. But I don't get the impression that you feel this is necessary for salvation (Which means a believer can live in grievous sin on some level and still be saved). But if such is the case, then this would be a doctrine for immorality that Jude 1:4 warns us about.

It's pretty obvious that they only person you're interested in listening to here is yourself, so if you don't mind sharing a little more. How are you managing living this sinless life yourself by the way? Is it just a five second thing for you, or is it something that lasts much longer?

I have found that sharing my life really does not help folks who believe as you do. That is not going to make a difference. Also, it is against forum rules to make the topic about the poster or a specific individual. We are to use Scripture to discuss the topic, instead (Please check the forum rules). Besides, my life is not the standard of God's Word. The Bible is the standard. It would not matter if the whole world was in wickedness; God's Word would still be true that a person can overcome sin just as it states. But if you need evidence of men of God walking perfectly in the Bible, then read Luke 1:5-6, and Revelation 14:3-5. Granted, I am not saying "Sinless Perfection" is a salvation issue. Not all sins are of the same degree. I am saying that believers need to overcome "grievous sin" (like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc., i.e. to love your neighbor - See Romans 13:8-10) or they will die spiritually (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15). It's also necessary that believers continue to spread the gospel (Luke 9:62), and help the poor in this life, as a part of the salvation process, too (Matthew 25:31-46). Luke 10:25-28 says that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting everlasting life. Not sure what Bible you are reading, but my Bible clearly states these things very clearly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Peace to you.

(Though I will assume you don't mean to say that early Christians or myself are lying unbelievers.)

I still have that Michael Card song stuck in my head.
It talks about wishing peace to you from the Lord.

I am wishing you peace today from the Lord, Anastasia.
May your day be blessed by Him (in all manner of His peace).

 

[usexpat97]

This OP poll question hinges on the wording: Is it possible to BE sinless for 5 seconds straight? That is a different question from, Is it possible to go 5 seconds without sinning? For the latter, yes: just go to sleep for 5 seconds. That wasn't hard. But--to BE sinless for 5 seconds. You have put on the garment of sin. Without Jesus Christ to put on a new set of white clothes, you remain in your old garments. Of course that means it is still possible: through God, with whom all things are possible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

George Sodini believed in Eternal Security, and believed that his sins of murdering others and taking his own life would be covered by his belief in Jesus.

To learn more about George Sodini, check out this article here.

Most of those who believe in Eternal Security say that King David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder. But this is turning God's grace into a license for immorality that Jude 1:4 warns us about. I wouldn't want to be a person who helped to create the next George Sodini. This is why we cannot just believe in Jesus and make light of sin (as if it cannot destroy your own soul). Proverbs 6:32 says that adultery can destroy your own soul. 1 John 3:15 says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Even Paul said he did not reached what was set to him. And he was very advanced.

Well, I am not implying that "Sinless Perfection" is a salvation issue. Not all sins are of the same degree of seriousness. A basic study on sin should reveal this fact to you that not all sin is of the same degree. Some sins can condemn, and others do not condemn.

In 1 John 5:16-17, there is a "sin unto death" and a "sin not unto death"; The context of the "sin not unto death" is confessed sin (with the intention of overcoming it with the help of other believers who are praying for them). An additional example of another "sin that is not unto death" (outside of 1 John 5) would be disobeying the command of baptism; For baptism is not a salvation issue (See 1 Peter 3:21). Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). Jesus said there is a greater sin (Luke 19:11). Speaking bad words against the Holy Ghost can never be forgiven, but speaking bad words against the Son can be forgiven (See Matthew 12:31-32). GOD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fire because the sin there was excessively bad. The type of sin was really bad there that needed to be destroyed. GOD did not destroy other sinful cities. This city was chosen to be destroyed because of it's excessive wickedness. So GOD does not treat all sin the same. James 2:10 is talking in context to the whole of the Law as being the "Royal Law" (Which is to love your neighbor).

I am saying that believers need to overcome "grievous sin" (like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc., i.e. to love your neighbor - See Romans 13:8-10) or they will die spiritually (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15). It's also necessary that believers continue to spread the gospel (Luke 9:62), and help the poor in this life, as a part of the salvation process, too (Matthew 25:31-46). Luke 10:25-28 says that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting everlasting life.

 

[NBB]

I did not say that "Sinless Perfection" is a salvation issue. Not all sins are of the same degree of seriousness. A basic study on sin should reveal this fact to you that not all sin is of the same degree. Some sins can condemn, and others do not condemn (See 1 John 5:16-17). In 1 John 5, the context of the "sin not unto death" is confessed sin (with the intention of overcoming it with the help of other believers who are praying for them). An additional example of another "sin that is not unto death" (outside of 1 John 5) would be disobeying the command of baptism; For baptism is not a salvation issue (See 1 Peter 3:21).

Yes some sins are not so serious, so we can be approved by God, and walk with him and have defects like that, but 100% perfect?
I doubt is even neccesary, or is something that our pride tries to think it is, or even possible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes some sins are not so serious, so we can be approved by God, and walk with him and have defects like that, but 100% perfect?
I doubt is even neccesary, or is something that our pride tries to think it is, or even possible.

I am saying that believers need to overcome "grievous sin" (like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc., i.e. to love your neighbor - See Romans 13:8-10) or they will die spiritually (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15). It's also necessary that believers continue to spread the gospel (Luke 9:62), and help the poor in this life, as a part of the salvation process, too (Matthew 25:31-46). Luke 10:25-28 says that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting everlasting life.

Side Note:

As for pride:

This is a salvation issue. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Two ways we can be humble according to Scripture are to:

(a) Seek forgiveness with the Lord (Repent) (Luke 18:9-13).
(b) Agree with the words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

 

[NBB]

I am saying that believers need to overcome "grievous sin" (like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc., i.e. to love your neighbor - See Romans 13:8-10) or they will die spiritually (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15). It's also necessary that believers continue to spread the gospel (Luke 9:62), and help the poor in this life, as a part of the salvation process, too (Matthew 25:31-46). Luke 10:25-28 says that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting everlasting life.

Side Note:

As for pride:

This is a salvation issue. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Two ways we can be humble according to Scripture are to:

(a) Seek forgiveness with the Lord (Repent) (Luke 18:9-13).
(b) Agree with the words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

But for me 'sinless' (what is discussed) is even without the little sins and defects, totally perfect and pure, i say is possible to live without the grave ones, murder, lying etc. But that doesn't mean totally sinless. Even then a lot of us fall in some of them from time to time.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But for me 'sinless' (what is discussed) is even without the little sins and defects, totally perfect and pure, i say is possible to live without the grave ones, murder, lying etc. But that doesn't mean totally sinless. Even then a lot of us fall in some of them from time to time.

But the Bible does not say that all sins are of the same degree and that every kind of sin will condemn us. Granted, if Jesus did not die on the cross for us, then the most minor sins would condemn us, but the Bible does not treat sin as all being the same (within the New Covenant).

 

[NBB]

But the Bible does not say that all sins are of the same degree and that every kind of sin will condemn us. Granted, if Jesus did not die on the cross for us, then the most minor sins would condemn us, but the Bible does not treat sin as all being the same (within the New Covenant).

We agree.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That's just "Christianese" for a state of being that nobody actually fully comprehends.

The early Church Fathers never claimed to fully comprehend it, but folks today argue vehemently as though they did.

I didn't say we fully comprehend it. Just like we don't fully comprehend the Holy Trinity.

But there are certain things we know about the Trinity - such as three Persons in One God (Being) - the only God that exists, that all three are co-equal and co-eternal, that they all will the same good.

And regarding Christ, we (should) know that He is fully God and fully man. Not a man whose body was later possessed by God, or some kind of phantom that only appeared to have flesh, or a temporary body used only while Jesus was on earth, or any other various number of errors that cropped up.

I hope we know. If we are unable to access or comprehend the information to search this out - that's probably ok between a person and God. I believe salvation is available to the simplest of souls (sometimes maybe more easily in fact LOL).

But if we are going to presume to discuss it, we need to be sure so that we don't teach others in error.

Certain errors were addressed by the ancient Christians. We ought not repeat them.

(And this isn't any great wisdom of my own. But really - if we are going to trust the early Christians to recognize what was Scripture and what wasn't - and I suspect you are aware there were as many spurious documents and forgeries as there were accepted writings --- if we are going to trust them to validate Holy Scripture, then we might as well trust them to interpret it as well.)


If you don't believe Jesus was fully God and fully man, then I hope I haven't offended you. I'm not looking to argue. I just respect you quite highly on these forums andi would have assumed you did believe that. I tend to assume most Christians know and believe it. Again, if I'm being offensive, please forgive me for that. But I can't apologize for sharing the truth.

God be with you, my brother.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Very well then. I know a lot of people are taught to distrust some parts of Church history. But you would probably be surprised in looking into it how resistant to manipulation it is, and why. If it could have been done, there are those who would have. (There were attempts and it was called out.) But it's ok as far as God alone judges, that's certainly right.

So ... I'm curious? I'm not looking to argue with you, and I doubt I'll have anything or much to say in response, but do you believe yourself that Jesus still has the body that He walked the earth? And how do you relate that body (if you believe He has one) to us in eternity?

You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just curious.

Well, unless you have a time machine and you had written history, I think it is safe to say I am not talking about you. I am talking about historical documents written by men in general. Somebody else could have altered history and it did not need to be the actual religious group itself but it could have been others who are not religious. We just don't know. I am not saying all historical documents are lies, I am just saying that they are not reliable. It's not like the Bible (Which is clear that it is a book that is divine in origin). God is not going to judge me if I don't get my history right or if I didn't trust those documents. God is going to judge me by His Word and His Word alone. So unless you have clear cut verses that shows that Jesus has a soul, you got nothing in my book (i.e. my book being the Word of God, or the Bible).

Side Note:

I re-edited my previous post to you.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I still have that Michael Card song stuck in my head.
It talks about wishing peace to you from the Lord.

I am wishing you peace today from the Lord, Anastasia.
May your day be blessed by Him (in all manner of His peace).

Thank you. I can't listen right now because I'm at work (I have one of those jobs today where I'm just a body in place - babysitting adults lol).

But I thank you. God be with you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Very well then. I know a lot of people are taught to distrust some parts of Church history. But you would probably be surprised in looking into it how resistant to manipulation it is, and why. If it could have been done, there are those who would have. (There were attempts and it was called out.) But it's ok as far as God alone judges, that's certainly right.

So ... I'm curious? I'm not looking to argue with you, and I doubt I'll have anything or much to say in response, but do you believe yourself that Jesus still has the body that He walked the earth? And how do you relate that body (if you believe He has one) to us in eternity?

You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just curious.

It has to be the same body (DNA wise) because if it was a different body like say if his body was changed into horse flesh, he could not longer be our intercessor forever.

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:25).

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore," (Revelation 1:18).

Some folks hypothesize that Jesus's body was not immortal before the cross. I think it is possible that He would have lived forever if He was not crucified. While I am not stating this as 100% fact, I don't think the resurrection changed the kind of body that He had. I believe it is highly probable that Jesus was already perfect. For He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. For Jesus was the spotless Lamb. If His body was defective in some way where it would have grown old and died, could He have been the spotless Lamb? I don't know that answer honestly. But I lean towards thinking more favorably of my Savior than to think unfavorably of Him.

The Bible says,

"For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;" (Hebrews 7:26).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you. I can't listen right now because I'm at work (I have one of those jobs today where I'm just a body in place - babysitting adults lol).

But I thank you. God be with you.

Understood, and your welcome.
I hope you get a chance to check it out later.

Blessings to you in the Lord.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We agree.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thanks for the reply.

I couldn't speculate to say for sure, but I think He would have lived forever in His flesh as well. And I agree with you that He has the same body after the Resurrection as you state. My theological basis for the conclusion might be slightly different. But I don't disagree with what you've said.

And this is essentially the important part of the Incarnation. So I'm glad to read your reply.

By the way, I haven't followed every post on the main thread topic but I've seen you say good things there. I don't want to start a debate with anyone. And I would say that sin of any kind affects us - but I certainly agree that some sins are more damaging to us than others.

God be with you. And thanks for the reply.

It has to be the same body (DNA wise) because if it was a different body like say if his body was changed into horse flesh, he could not longer be our intercessor forever.

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:25).

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore," (Revelation 1:18).

Some folks hypothesize that Jesus's body was not immortal before the cross. I think it is possible that He would have lived forever if He was not crucified. While I am not stating this as 100% fact, I don't think the resurrection changed the kind of body that He had. I believe it is highly probable that Jesus was already perfect. For He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. For Jesus was the spotless Lamb. If His body was defective in some way where it would have grown old and died, could He have been the spotless Lamb? I don't know that answer honestly. But I lean towards thinking more favorably of my Savior than to think unfavorably of Him.

The Bible says,

"For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;" (Hebrews 7:26).

 

[NBB]

@Jason0047
God bless.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thanks for the reply.

I couldn't speculate to say for sure, but I think He would have lived forever in His flesh as well. And I agree with you that He has the same body after the Resurrection as you state. My theological basis for the conclusion might be slightly different. But I don't disagree with what you've said.

And this is essentially the important part of the Incarnation. So I'm glad to read your reply.

By the way, I haven't followed every post on the main thread topic but I've seen you say good things there. I don't want to start a debate with anyone. And I would say that sin of any kind affects us - but I certainly agree that some sins are more damaging to us than others.

God be with you. And thanks for the reply.

I would like to add:

Adam lived to be hundreds of years old. Through time, men started to die at a younger age because of sin. But Jesus came by the birth of a miracle. I see Jesus as being symbolic of the tree of life in the Garden of Eden. If a man eats of that tree, they will live forever. Jesus was already talking about how men can eat of His flesh and drink of His blood and they would have everlasting life.

I believe the eating of his flesh (the eating of the bread of life) is to do His will as a part of believing in His sacrifice (See John 4:34, 1 John 1:7, Hebrews 5:9). To drink of his blood is to have faith in His blood for the remission of sins (See Romans 3:25).

How fitting would it be for Christ to say that if He naturally would live forever in regards to His physical body before the cross.

Note: Hover cursor over the verses to check them out.

Please be well in the Lord.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Jason0047
God bless.

*Big macho man hug to you in the Lord*