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Is it possible for an Orthodox Christian to get married in this day and age?

~Anastasia~

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I'm happy for your goddaughter, but I don't understand why would she want to get married early.

Why do you assume it's early? Or what would be early?

She has finished college and is a couple of years into her career. She does not yet know who she might marry. She wants to have children. It's definitely time to think about a husband being within a reasonable future if she wants children.

The girls who are away at college are not thinking of marriage, that I know of. They are rather young. But my goddaughter is a professional woman of a couple of years now.



My own daughter (not Orthodox - I'm a convert) has plans of who she will marry. They are a bit younger but both started a career this year. She plans to marry in a couple if years (though I suspect the time will move up - just the expense of maintaining two households and holding off on starting life together when they are already both firmly committed will probably continue to sway them, I think).
 
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F.E.A.R.

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Why do you assume it's early? Or what would be early?

She has finished college and is a couple of years into her career. She does not yet know who she might marry. She wants to have children. It's definitely time to think about a husband being within a reasonable future if she wants children.

The girls who are away at college are not thinking of marriage, that I know of. They are rather young. But my goddaughter is a professional woman of a couple of years now.
Thought she was 24-25 somewhere that why I said it's too early to marry. Well let's hope she'll marry the right one.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Thought she was 24-25 somewhere that why I said it's too early to marry. Well let's hope she'll marry the right one.

why is that too early? I know plenty of Orthodox who got married that early and they are still going strong.
 
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why is that too early? I know plenty of Orthodox who got married that early and they are still going strong.
Because alone you can achieve a lot more things. Personally not only am I young, but I never found marriage interesting. I always wanted to live alone, but then I thought about it because I wasn't true to myself. I would be alone with no one if I were to remain solo, so that's why who knows how many years later I'll get married. Maybe 10 years from now. I think. I don't know.

Like I said my goal was always to achieve something. Being in a relationship or in a marriage, would pull me downwards. For now it stays like this. Until I find an Elder, I'm not changing my mind.
 
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ArmyMatt

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but that doesn't mean 24-25 is too young, it just means you want to wait.

Like I said my goal was always to achieve something. Being in a relationship or in a marriage, would pull me downwards.

what do you want to do where marriage would pull you down?
 
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prodromos

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I know the Scripture says about the 7 fruits of the Holy Spirit, as listed in Galations 5:22, this is the guide I use when I evaluate whether a professing Christian girlfriend I am attracted to should be the right one for dating.
Now that I'm in the process of converting to Orthodoxy, I feel quite isolated in the dating world. Because from a conservative or traditionalist Orthodox point of view, Orthodox Christians are better off dating another Orthodox Christian than a non Orthodox Christian, which does make sense. I do know of Ukranian girl who was at my Middle and High School combo. I remember once that my brother dated her and watched James Cameron's Avatar and she even came into my family home one New Year's Day. She does regularly attend an Orthodox Church and her family is Orthodox. However, her family dysfunctional and she had to break off with my brother.
And like I said, becoming Orthodox makes me feel isolated in the dating world because many non Orthodox Christian girls, like the many American Evangelical girls who look physically attractive and are true to their Christian faith and trust Jesus. I am physically attracted to blonde women, especially ones with straight long hair. I do have a crush on a girl at college who leads an Intraversity Bible club. Though she is not blonde, is bubbly, gentle, and is true to her Christian faith. She has never criticized me for being Orthodox. She and I often but each other when we see each other.
the other big hurdle I see in Orthodox Orthodox dating is that many Orthodox parishes in South Florida, including the one I go to, does not have more than 10 people at a time, even during Pascha. So it seems to me that there are very limited dating options in the Orthodox Church.
Pray the akathist of St Xenia of St Petersburg. She is an awesome matchmaker.
 
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rusmeister

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From a letter by Tolkien to his son, one of the wisest observations of a modern writer that I know of:

You may meet in life (as in literature1) women who are flighty, or even plain wanton — I don't refer to mere flirtatiousness, the sparring practice for the real combat, but to women who are too silly to take even love seriously, or are actually so depraved as to enjoy 'conquests', or even enjoy the giving of pain – but these are abnormalities, even though false teaching, bad upbringing, and corrupt fashions may encourage them. Much though modern conditions have changed feminine circumstances, and the detail of what is considered propriety, they have not changed natural instinct. A man has a life-work, a career, (and male friends), all of which could (and do where he has any guts) survive the shipwreck of 'love'. A young woman, even one 'economically independent', as they say now (it usually really means economic subservience to male commercial employers instead of to a father or a family), begins to think of the 'bottom drawer' and dream of a home, almost at once. If she really falls in love, the shipwreck may really end on the rocks. Anyway women are in general much less romantic and more practical. Don't be misled by the fact that they are more 'sentimental' in words – freer with 'darling', and all that. They do not want a guiding star. They may idealize a plain young man into a hero; but they don't really need any such glamour either to fall in love or to remain in it. If they have any delusion it is that they can 'reform' men. They will take a rotter open-eyed, and even when the delusion of reforming him fails, go on loving him. They are, of course, much more realistic about the sexual relation. Unless perverted by bad contemporary fashions they do not as a rule talk 'bawdy'; not because they are purer than men (they are not) but because they don't find it funny. I have known those who pretended to, but it is a pretence. It may be intriguing, interesting, absorbing (even a great deal too absorbing) to them: but it is just plumb natural, a serious, obvious interest; where is the joke?

They have, of course, still to be more careful in sexual relations, for all the contraceptives. Mistakes are damaging physically and socially (and matrimonially). But they are instinctively, when uncorrupt, monogamous. Men are not. .... No good pretending. Men just ain't, not by their animal nature. Monogamy (although it has long been fundamental to our inherited ideas) is for us men a piece of 'revealed' ethic, according to faith and not to the flesh. Each of us could healthily beget, in our 30 odd years of full manhood, a few hundred children, and enjoy the process. Brigham Young (I believe) was a healthy and happy man. It is a fallen world, and there is no consonance between our bodies, minds, and souls.

However, the essence of a fallen world is that the best cannot be attained by free enjoyment, or by what is called 'self-realization' (usually a nice name for self-indulgence, wholly inimical to the realization of other selves); but by denial, by suffering. Faithfulness in Christian marriage entails that: great mortification. For a Christian man there is no escape. Marriage may help to sanctify & direct to its proper object his sexual desires; its grace may help him in the struggle; but the struggle remains. It will not satisfy him – as hunger may be kept off by regular meals. It will offer as many difficulties to the purity proper to that state, as it provides easements. No man, however truly he loved his betrothed and bride as a young man, has lived faithful to her as a wife in mind and body without deliberate conscious exercise of the will, without self-denial. Too few are told that — even those brought up 'in the Church'. Those outside seem seldom to have heard it. When the glamour wears off, or merely works a bit thin, they think they have made a mistake, and that the real soul-mate is still to find. The real soul-mate too often proves to be the next sexually attractive person that comes along. Someone whom they might indeed very profitably have married, if only —. Hence divorce, to provide the 'if only'. And of course they are as a rule quite right: they did make a mistake. Only a very wise man at the end of his life could make a sound judgement concerning whom, amongst the total possible chances, he ought most profitably to have married! Nearly all marriages, even happy ones, are mistakes: in the sense that almost certainly (in a more perfect world, or even with a little more care in this very imperfect one) both partners might have found more suitable mates. But the 'real soul-mate' is the one you are actually married to. You really do very little choosing: life and circumstance do most of it (though if there is a God these must be His instruments, or His appearances). It is notorious that in fact happy marriages are more common where the 'choosing' by the young persons is even more limited, by parental or family authority, as long as there is a social ethic of plain unromantic responsibility and conjugal fidelity. But even in countries where the romantic tradition has so far affected social arrangements as to make people believe that the choosing of a mate is solely the concern of the young, only the rarest good fortune brings together the man and woman who are really as it were 'destined' for one another, and capable of a very great and splendid love. The idea still dazzles us, catches us by the throat: poems and stories in multitudes have been written on the theme, more, probably, than the total of such loves in real life (yet the greatest of these tales do not tell of the happy marriage of such great lovers, but of their tragic separation; as if even in this sphere the truly great and splendid in this fallen world is more nearly achieved by 'failure' and suffering). In such great inevitable love, often love at first sight, we catch a vision, I suppose, of marriage as it should have been in an unfallen world. In this fallen world we have as our only guides, prudence, wisdom (rare in youth, too late in age), a clean, heart, and fidelity of will.....”

The Letters of J.R.R.Tolkien
 
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E.C.

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First off I should change the Canada thing since I'm not from Canada. Before they updated the personal infos and stuff, it didn't require "where are you from" and I clicked whatever country it came to mind.

I'm Slavic from an Orthodox country, and the Orthodox here, like I said Orthodox are turning away from their faith. There are less practicing Orthodox thanks to Western EU and USA influence. It's also the same in Eastern Europe. Ukraine, Belarus, Russia. Yes there are more practicing Orthodox in Ukraine and Russia because obviously there are more people. But the majority aren't.
My apologies. I forgot that part as I was writing my response. Obviously that changes a few things a bit.

I am not surprised that the majority of people are not practicing Orthodox. Seventy years of rampant militant atheism will do that. We like to think that Eastern Europe (especially the former Russian Empire) was an Orthodox Utopia before Communism, but I tend to disagree. If it was such an Orthodox Utopia, than why did the people embrace Communism so quickly and so happily? There must have been longtime spiritual health problems in the area, but that is purely my opinion.


I think there may be other factors than just EU influence (though that does not help) such as seven decades of constant oppression from Communism, the behavior of some Church leaders, being properly educated in the faith, and, keeping the Liturgy in Church Slavonic. I think the only Slavic country to move from Old Slavonic to more modern language was Serbia. I do not know the differences between modern Slavic languages and the Old Slavonic, but I do wonder how people can continue to attend Liturgy without knowing 100% of what is being said.
 
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F.E.A.R.

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but that doesn't mean 24-25 is too young, it just means you want to wait.



what do you want to do where marriage would pull you down?
What I want to do? I want to be financially stable. To have money, so I won't face the problems my parents did or others that I know. Being with someone would be burden.

My apologies. I forgot that part as I was writing my response. Obviously that changes a few things a bit.
It's OK, I'm not mad.

I am not surprised that the majority of people are not practicing Orthodox. Seventy years of rampant militant atheism will do that. We like to think that Eastern Europe (especially the former Russian Empire) was an Orthodox Utopia before Communism, but I tend to disagree. If it was such an Orthodox Utopia, than why did the people embrace Communism so quickly and so happily? There must have been longtime spiritual health problems in the area, but that is purely my opinion.
Atheism didn't stop the majority of people to be practicing Orthodox. Eastern Europe was Orthodox Utopia. So were the Balkans even under Ottoman Rule. Islam and Atheism didn't stop people from practicing Orthodoxy. Only a small percentage converted to Islam and Atheism during Socialist Yugoslavia.

The Russian people accepted Communism quickly because they had enough from Czar Nicholas bad politics. The guy was good but he sucked at politics unlike his predecessors Alexander III and Alexander II. Vladimir Lenin, Leon Trotsky, Moisei Uritsky, Grigory Zinoviev, Yakov Sverdlov and Lazar Kaganovich (all Jewish) propagated Communism. They were not your ordinary people. All of them were intellectuals. The masses were uneducated, they sought for a better future, but in return got death and starvation.

I think there may be other factors than just EU influence (though that does not help) such as seven decades of constant oppression from Communism, the behavior of some Church leaders, being properly educated in the faith, and, keeping the Liturgy in Church Slavonic. I think the only Slavic country to move from Old Slavonic to more modern language was Serbia. I do not know the differences between modern Slavic languages and the Old Slavonic, but I do wonder how people can continue to attend Liturgy without knowing 100% of what is being said.
Yes it is EU influence. Seventy years of oppression didn't turn the people away from their faith. And boy I don't wanna talk about Church leaders corruption. This is also a thing why the Orthodox Christians abandon the church.

What do you mean Serbia has moved on from the Church Slavonic (not Old Church Slavonic) to a more modern language? No Slavic nation has moved from serving in Church Slavonic. There are differences and also similarities. We understand what's being said on liturgy.
 
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F.E.A.R.

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but how would a wife hinder you being financially stable?
Just being with someone hinders you. I can't see a man and woman being financially successful. One or the other would be burden. It's usually women who are a burden. Just sucking off that money you have. A man and woman being both financially successful is a rare case. Both need to have to have a high earning. Since this is Southeastern Europe, it's always on the man's back to do everything. It's why I wanna move out in just 2-3 years from now. You can't seriously build a house with just 500€-700€ a month. Or buy a car or go on a trip or whatever. The lowest earning in Southeastern Europe is 200€, excluding Bulgaria and Greece.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Just being with someone hinders you. I can't see a man and woman being financially successful. One or the other would be burden. It's usually women who are a burden. Just sucking off that money you have. A man and woman being both financially successful is a rare case. Both need to have to have a high earning. Since this is Southeastern Europe, it's always on the man's back to do everything. It's why I wanna move out in just 2-3 years from now. You can't seriously build a house with just 500€-700€ a month. Or buy a car or go on a trip or whatever. The lowest earning in Southeastern Europe is 200€, excluding Bulgaria and Greece.

maybe it is a cultural thing, because a spouse helps financially in the States.
 
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Toolbelt

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Just being with someone hinders you. I can't see a man and woman being financially successful. One or the other would be burden. It's usually women who are a burden. Just sucking off that money you have. A man and woman being both financially successful is a rare case. Both need to have to have a high earning. Since this is Southeastern Europe, it's always on the man's back to do everything. It's why I wanna move out in just 2-3 years from now. You can't seriously build a house with just 500€-700€ a month. Or buy a car or go on a trip or whatever. The lowest earning in Southeastern Europe is 200€, excluding Bulgaria and Greece.

That's why a marriage is a sacrament. You have to give of yourself one way or the other. If you are a provider and your wife doesn't earn any money. She is going to provide you with other sacraments. Children, a clean home, food on the table. Not everything should be judged monetarily. Big mistake.
 
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All4Christ

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Because alone you can achieve a lot more things. Personally not only am I young, but I never found marriage interesting. I always wanted to live alone, but then I thought about it because I wasn't true to myself. I would be alone with no one if I were to remain solo, so that's why who knows how many years later I'll get married. Maybe 10 years from now. I think. I don't know.

Like I said my goal was always to achieve something. Being in a relationship or in a marriage, would pull me downwards. For now it stays like this. Until I find an Elder, I'm not changing my mind.
24-25 absolutely is not too young. Maybe it isn’t right for you (we don’t know that) but that doesn’t mean it is wrong inherently. My sister was married and had her first child by 25...and they are very happily married today. Honestly, while I didn’t get married until my 30s, there are benefits spiritually to getting married earlier should a person find the right spouse.
 
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All4Christ

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Just being with someone hinders you. I can't see a man and woman being financially successful. One or the other would be burden. It's usually women who are a burden. Just sucking off that money you have. A man and woman being both financially successful is a rare case. Both need to have to have a high earning. Since this is Southeastern Europe, it's always on the man's back to do everything. It's why I wanna move out in just 2-3 years from now. You can't seriously build a house with just 500€-700€ a month. Or buy a car or go on a trip or whatever. The lowest earning in Southeastern Europe is 200€, excluding Bulgaria and Greece.
Seriously, you need to realize that not everyone is like the way you describe. Personally, I make more money than my husband, but it doesn’t matter either way. Once we have kids, things will change again. Money isn’t the important thing - and we join to be one...and pt the other before ourselves. Read some of St John Chrysostom’s writings in marriage.
 
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maybe it is a cultural thing, because a spouse helps financially in the States.
It's not a cultural thing. Trust me. It was different when my grandparents were living in Yugoslavia. The same thing also applies about my great grandparents. Now it's just a mess.

That's why a marriage is a sacrament. You have to give of yourself one way or the other. If you are a provider and your wife doesn't earn any money. She is going to provide you with other sacraments. Children, a clean home, food on the table. Not everything should be judged monetarily. Big mistake.
You're taking this all thing wrong. The thing is that there are so many messed up things, I don't even know where to start.

24-25 absolutely is not too young. Maybe it isn’t right for you (we don’t know that) but that doesn’t mean it is wrong inherently. My sister was married and had her first child by 25...and they are very happily married today. Honestly, while I didn’t get married until my 30s, there are benefits spiritually to getting married earlier should a person find the right spouse.
What I said is subjective.

Seriously, you need to realize that not everyone is like the way you describe. Personally, I make more money than my husband, but it doesn’t matter either way. Once we have kids, things will change again. Money isn’t the important thing - and we join to be one...and pt the other before ourselves. Read some of St John Chrysostom’s writings in marriage.
I never said that everyone is like that. You're misunderstanding me. I'm talking about the majority of people who are like that, not the minority. For me it doesn't matter if I earned more money or my future wife or whatever.
 
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ArmyMatt

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It's not a cultural thing. Trust me. It was different when my grandparents were living in Yugoslavia. The same thing also applies about my great grandparents. Now it's just a mess.

I didn't mean cross generational. my wife and I have been married, and together we have more than we did when we were single.
 
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All4Christ

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mI never said that everyone is like that. You're misunderstanding me. I'm talking about the majority of people who are like that, not the minority. For me it doesn't matter if I earned more money or my future wife or whatever.
If it doesn’t matter to you who earns more, then why say things like “women drain money from men”? Honestly, if you trust God and pray for His guidance, surround yourself with good people, etc, things tend to fall into place. My experience both with my marriage and others is quite different than what you talked about here.

Marriage is a blessing. I am grateful for my husband and our marriage every day. Most of us here would likely say the same.
 
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~Anastasia~

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This is true for my daughter and her fiancée right now. They have two sets of rent, two electric bills, two water bills, and so on. The expense of gas to visit each other. The expense of driving two vehicles to work (they both work at the same place, roughly the same shift, so they could be sharing a ride if married). Tax and insurance breaks if married.

It's kind of ironic because they are waiting partly to give them time to save enough money to pay for wedding and related expenses. But they should be much better off financially when they combine their incomes and have only one set of expenses.

But I agree that if a person sees a wife as nothing but a financial drain and liability with nothing to offer - they might question why they should marry at all. It might be a wise stance. That's no basis on which to build a marriage.
 
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