Is it pagan to cremate?

[tampasteve]

To say that believers burying their dead is a man-made tradition does not account for a vast amount of biblical data concerning the importance of burial. For instance, Scripture reveals that God denied many people burial as His judgment on them, but rewarded those who were faithful to Him with burial.

There is zero biblical support for cremation, and there are many biblical considerations that strongly argue against its acceptability to God.

Thanks for the reply, that is a valid position worth considering.

 

[joshua28]

Well, thats your opinion, thats OK.

However, considering the topic of this thread, cremation is simply just quicker than natural decomposition and being slowly eaten by insects and microbes. The body "disappears" (returns back to ecosystem) in both cases. Therefore, its hardly theologically significant. One can even argue that cremation is more respectful to the body than to leave it to be slowly eaten.

No, cremation is a violent assault against the human body that God has never authorized. Cremation dishonors the dead person by denying them the fitting end of life--burial of the physical body.

 

[trophy33]

No, cremation is a violent assault against the human body that God has never authorized. Cremation dishonors the dead person by denying them the fitting end of life--burial of the physical body.

From the Christian perspective, the burial of the physical body (or its cremation or any other way) are not the end of life.

 

[joshua28]

Ecclesiastes 6:3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

The wisest man who ever lived (other than Jesus of Nazareth) wrote under inspiration of the Spirit that being born in an untimely birth is better than one who begets a hundred children and lives many years but does not have a burial.

 

[trophy33]

Ecclesiastes 6:3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

The wisest man who ever lived (other than Jesus of Nazareth) wrote under inspiration of the Spirit that being born in an untimely birth is better than one who begets a hundred children and lives many years but does not have a burial.

Ever heard of, for example, Jan Hus? What do you say about such situations?

 

[The Liturgist]

To believe that Jesus's resurrected body is not flesh and blood is heresy.

Indeed, technically it is a form of Docetism, albeit not to be confused with the more severe form of Docetism also adhered to by the Gnostics, that our Lord’s physical person and humanity were illusory and that He was a spirit pretending to be human. This heresy is particularly pernicious for the same reason as its inverse forms, Arianism and Unitarianism.

One frequently sees heresies and their opposite beliefs, also heresies, a pervasive pattern of heretics trying to lure the faithful into competing extremes on either side of the Truth, but this pattern does not justify the application of the logical fallacy of the Golden Mean to try to resolve theological arguments since it does not always hold for all heresiological contexts.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Traditionally Christians have been buried because the scriptures speak of those lying in the grave rising on the last day which implies burial. And Israelites were buried rather than cremated. But in more recent times cremation has become the norm for various reasons. Is it consistent with the holy scriptures (full 73 book canon) to cremate a Christian instead of bury them?

It there any place in the Holy Scriptures (full 66 or Roman Catholic 73 book canon) that states cremation is a pagan ritual that should not be done? What about people who the Vatican burned at the stake during the inquisition? Is that considered part of a pagan ritual? Or persons lost or buried at sea?

 

[Always in His Presence]

I would not tie it to any former pagan rituals, most Christians are very far removed from said rituals and. It is akin to saying we should not celebrate Christmas or Easter or other Christian practice due to some perceived or real former pagan ties - Christ conquered those false religions and owns everything now, they have no power and Christ lives.

That said, there are some traditional views as @The Liturgist stated on why burial is preferred, which Catholic and Orthodox still follow. I view those as man made traditions, not harmful in any way, but also not necessary to continue. The state of the body of billions of people will vary when the resurrection comes. Some will be dust due to decomposition, some will be dust due to cremation, some will have been eaten by animals both before death, in death and after....some will be fossils perhaps. I see no reason why Christ will care.

Bravo well said. Jesus was placed in a tomb above ground, Abraham was buried in the Earth and so on. God is the One who formed man from the dust of the Earth and can do so again - whether he is dust because of cremation or does from decomposition. Dust is dust and I believe what maters the Christ is or soles - who we really are for we are spirits, living in a body and have a mind.

 

[joshua28]

Ever heard of, for example, Jan Hus? What do you say about such situations?

Yes, I have heard of him and of other believers who were martyred by being burned at the stake. Obviously, that was not their choice. I do not see their cases as providing any support for other believers choosing cremation instead of burial.

 

[Paidiske]

Cremation does not prevent a proper and dignified burial; ashes are often interred reverently and with prayer, etc. This is not necessarily a problem.

However... what I have noticed is that once a person has been cremated, and the ashes given to the family, there is then nothing to prevent the family from failing to inter the ashes, or from making other poor decisions around what happens to them. So to my mind, the issue is not so much whether one is buried in a coffin, or whether the body is cremated and the ashes buried, but about the structure and decisions around that process, and how we might resource families to make decisions which reflect the dignity of a human person.

I would also note that generally, cremation is much cheaper than a burial plot, and it's important to be sensitive to the very real financial circumstances which might mean a family is not in a position to spend a small fortune for a burial.

 

[The Liturgist]

In the US some Eastern Orthodox churches keep a plain coffin or casket ready for use by parishioners which dramatically reduces burial costs, since caskets can be absurdly expensive. And one usually needs a casket, or a cardboard container often called a tray (or an air tray, where the deceased is to be repatriated before cremation for purposes of a viewing, which sounds absurdly expensive).

The beauty of burial is it must be done individually whereas modern crematoria are operated as factories for the destruction of the human body. This, along with the historic fact that cremation was preferred in Roman Paganism as a way to “purify” the deceased, and is also the norm in Hinduism and the pagan religions of East Asia, makes it unacceptable to me and to traditional Protestants, Orthodox and Catholics.

The only real debate I have had with traditional Protestant friends is over the propriety of embalming. I dislike this practice, but am not altogether opposed to it, and recently had a spirited (no pun intended) debate with my friend @MarkRohfrietsch on the subject. It seems to me like exposing the deceased to cobalt 60 would be a more reliable way of reducing infection, and also would entirely eliminate the risk of being buried alive, but alas there are no commercial irradiation facilities at least that I have heard of that are equipped to process loved ones prior to burial.

 

[Paidiske]

In the US some Eastern Orthodox churches keep a plain coffin or casket ready for use by parishioners which dramatically reduces burial costs, since caskets can be absurdly expensive.

Here it's the cost of the burial plot itself which can be prohibitive. It's hard to find clear pricing information online, but I have heard anecdotally of burial plots costing up to $20,000 in some areas, especially in big cities where space is at a premium.

The beauty of burial is it must be done individually...

But when you take into account my point about the reverent and prayerful interment of ashes, I think a lot of this objection fades.

The only real debate I have had with traditional Protestant friends is over the propriety of embalming.

Interestingly, this seems to be falling out of favour, at least in Australia. There's a growing awareness of environmental issues around how we care for the dead, and embalming chemicals are decidedly not environmentally friendly!

Anglicans are generally not opposed to cremation, provided that appropriate care is taken of the ashes afterwards. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that "traditional Protestants" find cremation unacceptable.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, I have heard of him and of other believers who were martyred by being burned at the stake. Obviously, that was not their choice. I do not see their cases as providing any support for other believers choosing cremation instead of burial.

I am not asking if it was their choice, I am asking what harm was done to them from the theological perspective, because of not being buried?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

This is not an endorsement.

Each year I have to take at least 6 hours of Professional Development training in order to renew my Funeral Director's License. During Covid the Government snuck in approval of a new disposal technology called Alkaline Hydrolysis or more popularly called "Aquamation". I know that the EO have universally rejected it; possibly the Catholic Church as well (although the CC did require a Dispensation to cremate back in the '80s, it is now OK here in Canada).

Personally, I find it repugnant. I see it as putting grannie in a pressure-cooker with a bunch of lye; cooking the heck out of her for 6-8 hours; chilling here down; infusing with CO2 to neutralize the PH; then pull the plug and flush the dissolved tissue into sewer (same one that the toilets are hooked up to. Then you still have to dry, and smash/crush the leftover bone chunks; and you end up with a pile of stuff too big for a regular urn, that won't fit in a standard columbarium.

For your viewing pleasure/displeasure:

 

[joshua28]

This is not an endorsement.

Each year I have to take at least 6 hours of Professional Development training in order to renew my Funeral Director's License. During Covid the Government snuck in approval of a new disposal technology called Alkaline Hydrolysis or more popularly called "Aquamation". I know that the EO have universally rejected it; possibly the Catholic Church as well (although the CC did require a Dispensation to cremate back in the '80s, it is now OK here in Canada).

Personally, I find it repugnant. I see it as putting grannie in a pressure-cooker with a bunch of lye; cooking the heck out of her for 6-8 hours; chilling here down; infusing with CO2 to neutralize the PH; then pull the plug and flush the dissolved tissue into sewer (same one that the toilets are hooked up to. Then you still have to dry, and smash/crush the leftover bone chunks; and you end up with a pile of stuff too big for a regular urn, that won't fit in a standard columbarium.

For your viewing pleasure/displeasure:

This is a horrific account of human perversity in devising means of "disposing" of dead human bodies because divine wisdom has been rejected or ignored concerning the biblical importance of burial.

 

[joshua28]

I am not asking if it was their choice, I am asking what harm was done to them from the theological perspective, because of not being buried?

How about you answer the question for yourself by giving heed to what the Bible says?

If (I am not asserting whether you are or are not) you are not willing to accept what the all Scripture that God has given to profit us unto every good work says (2 Tim. 3:15-17), my opinions are of no value.

So, in your understanding of the Bible, what does it actually have to say that applies to this question?

 

[joshua28]

But when you take into account my point about the reverent and prayerful interment of ashes, I think a lot of this objection fades.

You are asserting that there is such a thing as "the reverent and prayerful interment of ashes" that is acceptable to God. Do you have any Bible to support that assertion?

 

[Paidiske]

You are asserting that there is such a thing as "the reverent and prayerful interment of ashes" that is acceptable to God. Do you have any Bible to support that assertion?

I'm not aware of any Scripture that would call it into question. The quotes you have given about lack of burial, or about burning of remains, do not refer to reverent and prayerful use of cremation.

 

[joshua28]

I'm not aware of any Scripture that would call it into question. The quotes you have given about lack of burial, or about burning of remains, do not refer to reverent and prayerful use of cremation.

There is no such thing as "reverent and prayerful use of cremation" that is acceptable to God. The Bible does not support cremation in any way and teaches the importance of a proper burial in many ways.

 

[trophy33]

How about you answer the question for yourself by giving heed to what the Bible says?

If (I am not asserting whether you are or are not) you are not willing to accept what the all Scripture that God has given to profit us unto every good work says (2 Tim. 3:15-17), my opinions are of no value.

So, in your understanding of the Bible, what does it actually have to say that applies to this question?

Why do you try to throw the question back to me? You claim that not being buried to the ground is a bad thing, so I am asking you how were for example martyrs who were not buried harmed, spiritually, by not being buried.

Or people who died in the sea, in a jungle, who were eaten by animals etc.