Is it okay to talk about casting pearls before swine?

[candle glow]

I think classifying someone as "swine" also has a lot to do with their attitude. Some people can disagree with what Jesus said, but they can do so in a more humble way.

Interesting point. The verse talks about how these pigs will "rend" us if we try to give them pearls. It seems that is what makes them pigs as opposed to people who simply disagree with a teaching or do not want to practice that particular teaching.

But what does it mean to "rend" someone who is casting pearls? Maybe we should consider an actual pearl from Jesus, and how pigs could possibly try to rend either the pearl or the people casting the pearl?

How about something like, "go into all the world, making disciples by teaching people to obey my commands".

 

[Luke1433]

Lijc, where did you get that quote from? I have never heard such an interpretation of the passage, and it does not strike me as very accurate.

I take it, Candle, that you are suggesting that we discuss the teaching of Jesus about going into all the world to preach the gospel, in the light of it being a pearl, and watching or discussing how various people react to it, in an effort to discern what a "swine" would do with such a pear.

Sounds a bit of a daunting task, but I think the "rending" thing is important in separating someone who merely disagrees with the interpretation, from someone who attacks the person who is "casting" that "peal". Would that be right?

 

[Spiritlight]

Before someone considers this passage in the light of themselves compared to others they have to judge their own understanding of scripture and their place with God, compared to others understanding of scripture and or the other persons status with regard to salvation.

Since it is impossible to fully know what us in another mans heart or fully what knowledge they possess it raises another issue. Who decides you are in a position to correct others and are better than them?

If you decide for yourself it's your self appointed position to correct others on a regular basis is that not self richeousness as you have elevated your own knowledge and holiness as something others should aspire to?

To me a brother or sister regularly claiming to be throwing pearls to pigs is one who is possibly struggling in the self richeousness dept.

Thre is nothing like a humble patient kind hearted pearl of wisdom and knowledge for the right person at the right time.

When the spirit is speaking through someone it wil be the right thing.

 

[candle glow]

I think the "rending" thing is important in separating someone who merely disagrees with the interpretation, from someone who attacks the person who is "casting" that "peal". Would that be right?

Yes, like a "test case" type scenario. However, the verse talks about trampling the pearl, as well as rending the person. It could be that the rending is something like personal attacks, but I think the trampling of the pearl could also be something like either dismissing the teaching or attempting to water it down/change it from it's intended purpose.

 

[candle glow]

When the spirit is speaking through someone it wil be the right thing.

Hi SL. Does this include mentioning the swine teaching?

 

[Luke1433]

Candle, sometimes I think you are too subtle, and so people can miss what you are saying. What I am assuming you mean by your statement above is that there is a predicament with regard to assumptions about who has the Spirit speaking through them. Just saying that there will be no trampling or rending if one "has the Spirit" overlooks the fact that Jesus said to his disciples (people who has his Spirit) that there could be times when they would present the pearl in the right spirit, and still others would respond "piggishly", thus leading us to avoid giving any further pearls to such people.

Spirit Light seems to be writing from the position that none of us can discern much of anything with confidence. I think that contradicts scriptures which say that we can and should judge between "true prophets" and "false prophets", between sheep and wolves in sheep's clothing, etc. If he told us to steer clear of "swine", then he must be assuming that we have ways of discerning when someone is behaving swinishly.

 

[Spiritlight]

Spirit Light seems to be writing from the position that none of us can discern much of anything with confidence. I think that contradicts scriptures which say that we can and should judge between "true prophets" and "false prophets", between sheep and wolves in sheep's clothing, etc. If he told us to steer clear of "swine", then he must be assuming that we have ways of discerning when someone is behaving swinishly.

what I was trying to say is be careful how good you think you are because being humbled for something you said is no fun.

I have had to eat my words many times about people I judged as non Christian and beyond salvation. Their actions indicated non Christian behaviour.

One guy I gave up on and washed my hands of was my relative.

He was ways hostile and angry and swearing and drinking. What I did not know is he had a terrible marraige to a horrible wife who controlled him with alcohol and made him angry.

After she cheated on him they divorced and the person he deep down he is emerged after it was suppressed for 20 years. He had a Christian faith and because if his loyalty to the children he stayed in a turbulent relationship with a woman who hates religion. She trapped him initially by getting pregnant to get married when they were in late teens while he was in a rebellious time and still attending church. Because of the shame of that he stopped attending.

The first thing he did after the marriage ended was join a church and begin ministering to undeprivalliged children via a youth group. He gave up alcohol and is now has a Christian girlfriend and are both devoted to their lives.

The moral to the story is I regret to this day about my relative is I judged for myself who is a swine(someone who rejects and opposes). I have a right to judge others but my belly is full from all the times I have eaten my words about people.

I am sure happy to give advice if asked but I try not to jump to conclusions about people because many people want the message.

It is extremely embarrassing when the guy you summed up as a lost cause is doing heaps more ministry than yourself at the moment.

 

[candle glow]

Hi SP,

I think I get what you are saying about judgment, but I don't think that's what is being suggested here. The teaching about swine appears to focus specifically on the pearls.

The swine trample the pearls and rend those casting the pearls. It is an understanding of how to recognize when someone is doing that, which is the topic.

 

[Alithis]

back to the OP
of course it is ok to discuss (talk about ) the versus pertaining to casting pearl before swine . we can talk about (discuss) any scriptures .

what is not right is if we call fellow believers in the lord Jesus "swine" ,just because their present perception of scripture is not matching up to how one thinks it should .
as that is opposed to the very crux of the teachings of Jesus - being LOVE.

he also taught that the measure you use to judge others ..will be the measure used when you are judged of God , hence , it is better not to judge others at all.

i can testify that this is faithful and true ,for i have never stood in judgement of another
and not had one of two things happen later in my life
1. i became guilty of that which i judged in others or
-2. i found in my heart the propensity to be guilty of that which i judged in others .

God is not mocked .what so ever we sow .. that is what we reap .. this is not unto condemnation but it is the love of God . for whom the lord loves he chastens..

 

[Spiritlight]

back to the OP
of course it is ok to discuss (talk about ) the versus pertaining to casting pearl before swine . we can talk about (discuss) any scriptures .

what is not right is if we call fellow believers in the lord Jesus "swine" ,just because their present perception of scripture is not matching up to how one thinks it should .
as that is opposed to the very crux of the teachings of Jesus - being LOVE.

he also taught that the measure you use to judge others ..will be the measure used when you are judged of God , hence , it is better not to judge others at all.

i can testify that this is faithful and true ,for i have never stood in judgement of another
and not had one of two things happen later in my life
1. i became guilty of that which i judged in others or
-2. i found in my heart the propensity to be guilty of that which i judged in others .

God is not mocked .what so ever we sow .. that is what we reap .. this is not unto condemnation but it is the love of God . for whom the lord loves he chastens..

Bingo! We have a winner! Well put.

jJudgement while allowable often comes at a cost to someone else or yourself.

 

[korvus]

I think people just have to not take offense when they hear any possible truth, or else they are being a bit like swines. Something called 'denial'.

 

[Luke1433]

"Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

One of the worst things to become self-righteous about is our own humility. I find it hard to believe that ANYONE can claim to be perfect in the area of judging others.

 

[Luke1433]

Good post, Koryus. Oh, and thanks for that explanation, Spirit Light. A very important warning for us, i.e. to be slow to pass judgment... even though we MUST make certain judgments as a part of our everyday existence.

Don't forget that, according to scripture, it was just as bad to rule a guilty man innocent as it was to rule an innocent man guilty. So, on the human level, our judgments will always be imperfect. Nevertheless, we do make them... almost constantly.

 

[candle glow]

he also taught that the measure you use to judge others ..will be the measure used when you are judged of God , hence , it is better not to judge others at all.

It's really not possible to not judge others. Even saying, "it's better not to judge" is making a judgment. It would be better to use fair judgment, since that is still consistent with being judged in the way that we judge others.

If we judge others fairly, then we will also be judged fairly.

If someone is being a swine, it's good to be able to recognize how/why that is happening. You may refer to it as judgment, but it can also be referred to as discernment, too.

I don't think it needs to be something personal against the person who is being a swine. It's not about the person, but about that person's actions. If the pearls are being trampled, then that needs to be pointed out, especially if others are looking on who may be confused about what is happening.

 

[Luke1433]

I wondered how long it would before this point came up. Jesus clearly teaches, "Judge not that you be not judged." But he also taught, "Judge fairly." When there is an apparent contradiction like that, it's helpful for us to at least try not to become too polarised with either one.

If you look up the word "judgment" in almost any concordance, you will find that most references to judgment in the Bible see it as a good thing. It's along the lines of being fair, and exercising wisdom/discernment.

All of the warnings about things like "false prophets" are based on the assumption that we WILL be able to recognise some people/teachings as being false, as opposed to some being true, and consistent with the teachings of Jesus.

I'm not saying that it is happening here, but certainly if someone was a false prophet, a teaching that such a person should be above suspicion (by virtue of the fact that they CLAIM to be genuine Christians) would be the ideal way to do as much damage as they like.

 

[Omena]

I agree that we all make judgements, even if we're trying not to most of the time. I also agree that the judgement doesn't have to be personal. Sometimes we associate judging people with "lording over" people, whereas I see a difference between the two.

I think any of us here would agree that wasting food is wrong. That is a judgement on our part, but it's a fair judgement because we see the hunger in the world and we know in our hearts that it is wrong to throw away something that could save someone's life. We might even judge someone when we see them wasting perfectly good food. But is it wrong for us to say that they are doing something wrong, on the basis that we are not perfect ourselves? I feel that if we all stayed silent about the wrongdoings in the world, nothing would ever change, and we as Christians would be totally unaccountable to each other.

Lording over someone is different, I think. It's when we imply or tell someone that they are beneath us because of their actions or beliefs or whatever. So I guess the question is, are we lording over people when we classify them as 'swine', or more accurately, as acting "swinishly"?

 

[candle glow]

I think the question still remains; how do we know when someone is being a pig? What are the warning signs? What does it mean to "trample" the pearls?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Paul's advice, of course, is to "KNOW NOTHING" except Jesus and Him Crucified. Paul didn't attempt to win folks with persuasive arguments, and intellectual wisdom. HE just told 'em about Jesus, and let the Holy Spirit do his work (since the Holy Spirit is the only "agent" that can really convince anybody about anything).

 

[RDKirk]

Paul's advice, of course, is to "KNOW NOTHING" except Jesus and Him Crucified. Paul didn't attempt to win folks with persuasive arguments, and intellectual wisdom. HE just told 'em about Jesus, and let the Holy Spirit do his work (since the Holy Spirit is the only "agent" that can really convince anybody about anything).

This is basically it.

You can look to Romans 1 as well, as an example. God has one argument for His existence. Only one argument, and He makes it only once.

Or you can look to Jesus' ministry techniques.

Paul, being an intellectual to begin with, had to learn that debate was unnecessary.

 

[Omena]

Paul's advice, of course, is to "KNOW NOTHING" except Jesus and Him Crucified.

Jesus' advice was to go into all the world teaching people about the things that He taught us. So obviously, in order to do that, we need to KNOW SOMETHING. And Paul also said that we should study so we can learn to recognize Truth, so I wouldn't take the verse you quoted to mean that we should avoid knowledge of Bible teachings apart from John 3:16.

Paul, being an intellectual to begin with, had to learn that debate was unnecessary.

I've always believed the saying about the difference between an argument and debate, and that is that in a debate, people are listening to each other. I agree that arguing is unnecessary, and more often a waste of time, but debating is a good way to learn.

But the real question has to do with defining when someone is being a pig (or swine) that Jesus talked about, and also what it means to NOT cast our pearls before swine. I think someone can act like a pig well before they get to the arguing or debating stage.