Is it okay to date another Christian whose been divorced?

[PollyJetix]

The Church bears the authority of Christ.

Right.
And it is of course correct all the time.
Even when the Pope lives in iniquity, and priests rape little boys.
Even when they pronounce unbaptized infants damned for eternity.
Even when they burn dissidents at the stake.
Even when Jews are hunted and killed like animals.

"THE CHURCH" ... cannot be anything BUT the Catholic version.
But it's all about politics and money and power.
Whited sepulchers full of dead men's bones.

What a representation of Christ!

 

[Kenny'sID]

“For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what that is, in relation to the subject? You asked for proof and I provided it. I was hoping for you to at least take the time to reply with something coherent. If that was a coherent answer, all you need do is explain it.

 

[BukiRob]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what that is, in relation to the subject? You asked for proof and I provided it. I was hoping for you to at least take the time to reply with something coherent. If that was a coherent answer, all you need do is explain it.

No you didnt.... you tried to paint Messiah as changing the Torah which is even possible. Yeshua himself did not speak on his on initiative but ONLY that which the Father had him speak.

The Lord DOES NOT CHANGE... that is scripture

 

[PollyJetix]

I do not agree. I feel that what Paul is saying is pretty clear. But it is not the same clarity that you seem to have.

I say again, if really Paul went against the indissolubility of marriage, he would have to explain at length his reason for doing so. Remember that adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Remember also that Jesus when confronted on the issue basically called marriage indissoluble (Matthew 19:9), and that the disciples were also shocked at this statement. So if really 1 Corinthians 7:15 presents a freedom for a remarriage, there has to be some weighty in depth explanation, why Paul goes beyond the teaching of Jesus.

It is not difficult.
All adulterers who have not repented from their sins cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
When an adulterer repents, God forgets the sin of adultery against his former wife.
The marriage itself is not adultery. It was the heart-sin that forsook his former wife, via lust.

Remember, Jesus was talking to those who were under the Law.
He never told the Pharisees to disobey the Law of Moses.
They were saying that God was telling them to put away their wives in Deuteronomy 24:1-4.
Jesus instead pointed them to Malachi 2:16.
Jesus brought them back to the truth contained in the Old Covenant here. He was not introducing any new ideas.
Jesus was not telling the Pharisees that Deuteronomy 24:1-4 no longer applied. He was just telling them they were using it wrongly.

 

[Light of the East]

Right.
And it is of course correct all the time.
Even when the Pope lives in iniquity, and priests rape little boys.
Even when they pronounce unbaptized infants damned for eternity.
Even when they burn dissidents at the stake.
Even when Jews are hunted and killed like animals.

"THE CHURCH" ... cannot be anything BUT the Catholic version.
But it's all about politics and money and power.
Whited sepulchers full of dead men's bones.

What a representation of Christ!

You need to do some studying of Catholic/Orthodox teaching.

The Church is correct all the time - only in matters of dogma (doctrine) and moral teaching.

The iniquity of a person, whether it be a layman or a pope, does not change the teaching of the Church in matters of doctrine or morals. The Holy Spirit protects the Church from error.

That is why when the Borgias were in the Vatican, having weekly orgies, they did not change the dogma of the Church to say "sex with anyone, anywhere, at any time, is just fine" That is why when a bishop who was a Monophysitist was elected to the papacy was asked "So now that you are pope, I assume that you will teach Monophysitism," he replied, "I am pope. I cannot do that."

That is why when another bishop, who was a heretic, was elected pope, he dropped dead the night before his installment.

You see, you confuse the sins of people in the Church with the Church itself, and then use their sins to defend yourself against joining the Church.

You are, however, correct in saying this: they are a horrid representation of Christ to the world. Do you honestly think they will not pay for such perfidy committed in this life?

The Church had Moses, who murdered. The Church had Saul, who was an idolater and necromancer. The Church had David, who committed adultery and murder. The Church had multiple kings who committed so much idolatry and foisted it upon their nation that Israel was taken over by barbarians as a punishment.

The Church has always had sinners in it and always will. That does not change the fact that Christ promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.

Sinners are in the Church. Sinners are not the Church.

 

[PeterDona]

You do not understand the world of the separated woman. Granting physical absence from abuse does not give peace. Only complete release from the marriage gives peace.

OK since there is an information unevenness here and you have shared your history, let me share mine. In 2002 there was a couple in leadership in my church, where the husband went off from her and from the church. After 6 months they took me into a disciplining conversation where the pastor screamed at me that she would throw me out of the church. I thought that such could be deadly for me, to go living on the street, so I acted as if I complied to the demands. 3 days later that pastor came and suggested that I married that divorced woman, and I rationalized that if I went into the engagement I would have peace until I was ready to leave the church. Unfortunately the marriage was progressed to being held before I was ready to leave. So basically I was not interested in this woman, and I was in a situation where I had to play an act until I could get out whole. And well, they used 1 corinthians 7:15 for justification, saying that the husband of the woman had become an unbeliever by leaving the church.

For me it is a 50-50 game.
If divorce and remarriage is allowed, I am in problems due to Malachi 2:13-16, and must go back to her.
If divorce and remarriage is not allowed, I have committed adultery while being a christian. Is that better? Is it forgivable when I knew it was wrong? To be honest she was not a winning woman. I did not want to marry her, and I did not grow to be happy anyway in that marriage. I was unable to force my heart to like her in a marital way. And I always felt that there was no marriage

 

[Kenny'sID]

No you didnt.... you tried to paint Messiah as changing the Torah which is even possible. Yeshua himself did not speak on his on initiative but ONLY that which the Father had him speak.

OK, let me guide you through this, do you recall what you asked me to prove? And if so, what was it?

Also, do you think one can commit adultery as in the adultery Christ was talking about by remarrying after divorce, (accept for the fornication) and still go to heaven?

 

[PollyJetix]

Thread efficiently derailed from topic.
I refuse to continue this debate over Catholic dogma.

 

[PollyJetix]

OK since there is an information unevenness here and you have shared your history, let me share mine. In 2002 there was a couple in leadership in my church, where the husband went off from her and from the church. After 6 months they took me into a disciplining conversation where the pastor screamed at me that she would throw me out of the church. I thought that such could be deadly for me, to go living on the street, so I acted as if I complied to the demands. 3 days later that pastor came and suggested that I married that divorced woman, and I rationalized that if I went into the engagement I would have peace until I was ready to leave the church. Unfortunately the marriage was progressed to being held before I was ready to leave. So basically I was not interested in this woman, and I was in a situation where I had to play an act until I could get out whole. And well, they used 1 corinthians 7:15 for justification, saying that the husband of the woman had become an unbeliever by leaving the church.

For me it is a 50-50 game.
If divorce and remarriage is allowed, I am in problems due to Malachi 2:13-16, and must go back to her.
If divorce and remarriage is not allowed, I have committed adultery while being a christian. Is that better? Is it forgivable when I knew it was wrong? To be honest she was not a winning woman. I did not want to marry her, and I did not grow to be happy anyway in that marriage. I was unable to force my heart to like her in a marital way. And I always felt that there was no marriage

I cannot understand how you were forced into this situation. You say you were being "disciplined" by the pastor, who screamed at you that you have to marry a divorced woman, in whom you had no interest? There has to be more to the story than that.
What were you being disciplined for? Having a sexual relationship with the divorced woman?
You speak of being thrown out on the street...were you living with the divorced woman?
There's more to this, imho.

So.. are you now married to this woman?
Or are you now divorced?

 

[PeterDona]

So.. are you now married to this woman? Or are you now divorced?

I am now divorced, and if your interpretation is correct, I have to go back to her.
The pastor did not scream at me that I had to marry her. The pastor screamed at me because I had tried to open up about some things that I felt were wrong in the church. Only 3 days later came the pastor then and suggested that I married this divorced woman. And I considered for myself that if I went into the engagement, I would have time to prepare myself to leave the church, and I did not think too high of the divorced woman in the leadership since she had also been present at the harassment event, as a leader, but without stopping the harassment. She had been my "mentor", but I felt betrayed by her. So I thought, well, she is not completely human anyway when she can betray me like that. So what is the problem if I use the situation to protect myself? It was a very wicked act from me, and it ended up all bad. He who digs a pit for others, will fall into it himself.

 

[PollyJetix]

Were you walking with God while you did all this?
In other words, were you really a believer?
Only you and God know the answer to that.
You said it was wickedness.

Have you repented?
Then God has erased your wickedness.
He doesn't remember it anymore.

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Have you repented?
Then God has erased your wickedness.
He doesn't remember it anymore.

If God wiped it clean (Grace of God, Christ Jesus) does that mean he can remarry (if God wills)?

He is forgiven, cleaned.

Marriage is not sin (in and of itself)

I know I'm going on here, but God hasn't cleared this up for me yet.

 

[PollyJetix]

If the moral law of Moses, revealed in the Old Covenant, was a revelation of the character of God, and was all the Old Testament said it was... then it was perfect, it was everlasting, and it was unchangeable.

And that moral code required a writing of divorce for one reason only: to allow remarriage. There was no other way to understand the Law. The Jews have NEVER understood it any other way.

Jesus did not come to put a heavier burden on us than what the Law gave.
Instead, he came to free us from the heavy load of condemnation.
If we repent, we have complete cleansing by the Blood of Christ.
And that means we can start over. Clean. Free.

 

[PeterDona]

Yes I was a believer.

Before the pastor came and suggested the marriage I had 2 warning dreams, one in which I saw another husband in the church leave his wife and then she suggested that I should marry her and I did and felt how nice it was to be married, the honor, so to say. In the other dream I saw myself married to this woman in the church and standing and looking into a box. It was as if the dreams were warning me that if I married this woman I would feel like no purpose, and also there would be the problem that she was a divorced woman. So really God (if he was the author of those dreams) gave me a precise warning.

I do not think that forgiveness means that I no longer have to consider the marriage. If you are right, then I will be an adulterer if I go into a new marriage. If you are wrong, then I would probably not be an adulterer. However, this is all so wicked, and even if I am still physically alive, I do not know if there is any way to avoid judgment and hell. Living celibate is my best option.

Or to reconcile with that woman that I did not want to marry. I always felt the marriage was wrong. When there has never been a love, would that be REconciliation or just conciliation?

 

[I'm_Sorry]

Jesus did not come to put a heavier burden on us than what the Law gave.
Instead, he came to free us from the heavy load of condemnation.
If we repent, we have complete cleansing by the Blood of Christ.
And that means we can start over. Clean. Free.

That's what I believe that God is so loving that we are free due to a complete forgiveness in Christ with repentance, Christ's blood is sufficient and my sins are on the cross with Him paid in full which is sad because when I sin its like I'm trowing a stone at Him and making Him bleed, our all loving God who died for us so that I we may live.

And sometimes I think we have to remember that Christ forgives and we need to forgive too and not beat our selves up so much.

Is this freedom in Christ?

I'm not saying God isn't calling some of his children to be celibate.

That is honorable as you are waiting for our Groom to be united with us forever and ever!

 

[PollyJetix]

Yes I was a believer.

Before the pastor came and suggested the marriage I had 2 warning dreams, one in which I saw another husband in the church leave his wife and then she suggested that I should marry her and I did and felt how nice it was to be married, the honor, so to say. In the other dream I saw myself married to this woman in the church and standing and looking into a box. It was as if the dreams were warning me that if I married this woman I would feel like no purpose, and also there would be the problem that she was a divorced woman. So really God (if he was the author of those dreams) gave me a precise warning.

I do not think that forgiveness means that I no longer have to consider the marriage. If you are right, then I will be an adulterer if I go into a new marriage. If you are wrong, then I would probably not be an adulterer. However, this is all so wicked, and even if I am still physically alive, I do not know if there is any way to avoid judgment and hell. Living celibate is my best option.

Or to reconcile with that woman that I did not want to marry. I always felt the marriage was wrong. When there has never been a love, would that be REconciliation or just conciliation?

PeterDona... sometimes God tells us to do things that are uncomfortable.
It sounds like you need to spend some serious time in prayer, and get to the place you are willing to do whatever God tells you to do.

 

[PeterDona]

PeterDona... sometimes God tells us to do things that are uncomfortable.
It sounds like you need to spend some serious time in prayer, and get to the place you are willing to do whatever God tells you to do.

Already did and already do. God spoke to me recently showing my own wicked part in the events. I had always felt it was kind of like a forced marriage. But then I saw my own part. God is also leading me to have more positive feelings towards the mother of my son.

But this all happened only after that I saw that the Bible standard is "till death do us part". So I married a person that was in Gods eyes still married to her former husband. So technically I am free, except that it might be to take God a little bit too granted to go after a new marriage realising now how evil I am in nature.

Concerning your interpretation which seems to be so much inspired by David Instone-Brewer, I also held that interpretation for some time. It gave me freedom, and freedom is a deep craving.

But then there is the cross. We have to take up our cross every day. What is it? How do we take it up? Basically we must die to ourselves, and we live in a church that basically want to live in self-life. A very self-loving church, where there is so little of God and so much of self.

And yet God is our father, and we are his children. May God have mercy on us all.

 

[PollyJetix]

thanks for pointing to David Instone-Brewer. I had never heard of him. But now that I have found his books online, I think they look like interesting reading.

edited to add:
Hmm... now that I have found him on Youtube, I realize I did watch one video by him long ago.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I don't think we need to know how far they have sinned... or whether they can repent or not. That really belongs to God alone.

It is enough, for our purposes, to know that they are unbelievers.
Because if the unbeliever departs, the believing spouse is not under bondage. Because God has called us to peace.

There is no room in I Corinthians 7 for a believing husband to depart from his wife.
If a husband departs from his wife, he is an unbeliever.

Polly, I would like to agree with you on 1 Cor. 7, because we are so much alike, but I just don't know if Paul would agree that his verse can be forced to say that a Christian who has adultery is the same as a pagan. But, you could be right. John might agree with you, as he said those who commit (willful) sin, has as their father, the devil. Christians do not commit willful sin, because they are dead to sin, thus any sins are unintentional. And as James would say, their desires may not have been become sin.

Because adultery was punishable by death in the OT, I think that is more in keeping with why the innocent party is free just as a if their spouse is dead; but ONLY if the adulterer leaves as in your verse. So it could be a combination of both of our views.

But, Paul's verse could also mean something far less than the "unbeliever" committing adultery. Say a married couple is in Wicca or Scientology, and one becomes a Christian. If the other decides to leave, the Christian is free, but they must not instigate the divorce. Stay put, as you and I did in our marriages, until God causes the mentally ill abuser, or the adulterer to leave. I for one learned obedience to God through suffering. The suffering was so bad, it has caused me to be super vigilant to not sin willfully - ever.

 

[1stcenturylady]

If that is the case then I'm not a christian?

Did I say that? Did I say anything close to that? Sheeeesh!!!!

I somehow find that hard to believe.

There is forgiveness and Jesus will keep those who belong to Him.

Where do you get such an idea that we can just ignore Christ's words, continue in sin, and expect that everything will be hunky-dorey?

It's not our rags that are presented to the Father its Jesus' pure robes of His anointing sacrifice.

Luther's heresy. Not true. God does not deal in deception. He deals with us as we are. If we die in sin, He sees that sin and deals with it. If it is venial sin, we enter into purgation for our final cleansing. If it is mortal sin, we lose our relationship with the Father and are cast out of the Kingdom. Sin is a serious thing, so serious that Christ died a bloody, horrible, and painful death to defeat it. You have made it of little consequence by your statement.

The gospel is Good news, the law has been fulfilled in Christ Jesus so that we may live in Him.

So the law is fulfilled so that we can live any way we wish? I think you should realize that if we live "in Him" it means that we will be obedient to His commands and not to our disordered passions.

We are the awaited bride for the marriage in Heaven.

Yes. Don't stain your white wedding garment with the blackness of sin.

Our deeds in the flesh will be tried by fire.

Purgation after death. First correct thing you have said here.

And to doubt salvation is to doubt the ability of the Holy Spirit, Jesus, the Father to sanctify us unto death.

If you mean that we cannot forfeit our inheritance in the Kingdom through our willful sins, then that is a heretical statement and a denial of the principles of covenant.

There are pages and pages I haven't read yet, so don't know if anyone else asked yet, But where in the Bible is it taught about purgatory?