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Is it okay for a U.S. christian to own a liquor store?

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jimmyjimmy

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Drinking Liquor can have far more negative consequences than eating food.....and probably should not be compared.

Eating too much can directly kill the eater only....... While Drinking too much liquor can kill you and those around you.

Just compare the numbers.....How many innocent people are killed a year by those who drank too much liquor... And how many are killed by those who ate too much food?

  • Diabetes was the seventh leading cause of death in the United States in 2015. This finding is based on 79,535 death certificates in which diabetes was listed as the underlying cause of death (crude rate, 24.7 per 100,000 persons).5
  • Diabetes was listed as any cause of death on 252,806 death certificates in 2015 (crude rate, 78.7 per 100,000 persons).5
Costs
  • The total direct and indirect estimated cost of diagnosed diabetes in the United States in 2012 was $245 billion.6
  • Average medical expenditures for people with diagnosed diabetes were about $13,700 per year. About $7,900 of this amount was attributed to diabetes.6
  • After adjusting for age group and sex, average medical expenditures among people with diagnosed diabetes were about 2.3 times higher than expenditures for people without diabetes.6
Deaths and Cost | Data & Statistics | Diabetes | CDC
 
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1Reformedman

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1Co 9
19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

1Co 10
27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— 29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?

--------------

I am not interested in owning a liqour store. However, my interest is a near-direct correlate. I am not going to explain what it is, because that will derail the thread.

My question: is it acceptable for a Christian to own a liquor store? It seems that it would make it difficult to share the gospel with a lot of people, because of our society's negative view; they assume a Christian shouldn't do such a thing. However, immediacy does seem to be a major function. If Paul was a Jew to the Jews, and something else when dealing with others, then clearly those role would contradict. If the Jew found out about Paul's behavior before others, he would be offended; Paul didn't seem to be worried about this (unless Paul took an inclusive approach, and did nothing that would offend anyone, anywhere, at any time). It seems that Paul's concern was for the immediate; for example, he might not eat sacrificed meat in front of them, but he might eat it in private. Or he might own a liquor store, but he might not purchase it in front of the offendable parties.

And what about quasi-immediacy? Specifically this: if you decide that it's okay to own the liquor store and you buy it, but then someone that you're speaking to directly finds out and lets you know that they think it's wrong, do you have to sell the store?

Lastly, how far do we take this? If we own a beautiful car and someone says we should have instead spent that extra money to feed the hungry, do we have to sell it and do just that? cf. Pro 31 and also the coat of many colors. Regarding which issues (cars? liquor stores?) or in which situations (immediacy?) or other factors (majority opinion?) do we become all things to all people?

And remember that Paul publicly stated (in the Bible) that Timothy was to drink an alcoholic drink (wine). This offends many Christians.


There were winemakers back in Jesus' day. Was it wrong then? Jesus turned water into wine. There is nothing wrong with drinking alcohol but not to excess. Any alcohol is a mocker if you consume too much. No one forces a person to come into a liquor store. Furthermore if you did run one and all you did was try to preach the gospel you would likely not be in business long.
 
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1Co 9
19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

1Co 10
27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— 29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?

--------------

I am not interested in owning a liqour store. However, my interest is a near-direct correlate. I am not going to explain what it is, because that will derail the thread.

My question: is it acceptable for a Christian to own a liquor store? It seems that it would make it difficult to share the gospel with a lot of people, because of our society's negative view; they assume a Christian shouldn't do such a thing. However, immediacy does seem to be a major function. If Paul was a Jew to the Jews, and something else when dealing with others, then clearly those role would contradict. If the Jew found out about Paul's behavior before others, he would be offended; Paul didn't seem to be worried about this (unless Paul took an inclusive approach, and did nothing that would offend anyone, anywhere, at any time). It seems that Paul's concern was for the immediate; for example, he might not eat sacrificed meat in front of them, but he might eat it in private. Or he might own a liquor store, but he might not purchase it in front of the offendable parties.

And what about quasi-immediacy? Specifically this: if you decide that it's okay to own the liquor store and you buy it, but then someone that you're speaking to directly finds out and lets you know that they think it's wrong, do you have to sell the store?

Lastly, how far do we take this? If we own a beautiful car and someone says we should have instead spent that extra money to feed the hungry, do we have to sell it and do just that? cf. Pro 31 and also the coat of many colors. Regarding which issues (cars? liquor stores?) or in which situations (immediacy?) or other factors (majority opinion?) do we become all things to all people?

And remember that Paul publicly stated (in the Bible) that Timothy was to drink an alcoholic drink (wine). This offends many Christians.

The problem with a Christian in owning liquor store is that will lead others into drunkenness every time. The Bible says drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do you want to be a party to people going to hell? I sure don't want that. Also, women get taken advantage of by alcohol, or unwanted fornication is also more common with alcohol use. Do you want to be a party to that kind of thing? It would be like creating a device that you know sends people to hell. Why do that? It makes no sense.

As for meat sacrificed to idols:
Well, eating meat sacrificed to idols does not lead to sin unless one eats in front of a weak brother or unless one is into idolatry. But a believer can eat meat sacrificed to idols if nobody is around because an idol is nothing. That does not relate to alcohol. Alcohol is actually a poison and it is scientifically proven that it shrinks the brain. Under the influence of alcohol and people do sinful things. One more glass leads a person to be drunk. If a person drinks a little bit of hard liquor they can be drunk right away. It depends on their size and weight, etc. So some people can get drunk really fast on just a little bit of hard liquor. Drunkenness is condemned in the Bible. So this is totally two different things here.

One is a poisonous substance (which in most cases has no nutritional value), and the other is food (that does offer us nutrition for our bodies).
 
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1Reformedman

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The problem with a Christian in owning liquor store is that will lead others into drunkenness every time. The Bible says drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do you want to be a party to people going to hell? I sure don't want that. Also, women get taken advantage of by alcohol, or unwanted fornication is also more common with alcohol use. Do you want to be a party to that kind of thing? It would be like creating a device that you know sends people to hell. Why do that? It makes no sense.

As for meat sacrificed to idols:
Well, eating meat sacrificed to idols does not lead to sin unless one eats in front of a weak brother or unless one is into idolatry. But a believer can eat meat sacrificed to idols if nobody is around because an idol is nothing. That does not relate to alcohol. Alcohol is actually a poison and it is scientifically proven that it shrinks the brain. Under the influence of alcohol and people do sinful things. One more glass leads a person to be drunk. If a person drinks a little bit of hard liquor they can be drunk right away. It depends on their size and weight, etc. So some people can get drunk really fast on just a little bit of hard liquor. Drunkenness is condemned in the Bible. So this is totally two different things here.

One is a poisonous substance (which in most cases has no nutritional value), and the other is food (that does offer us nutrition for our bodies).

Its not a problem for the store owner. Stop blaming the owner for the person choosing to continue to drink to excess. A drunkard chooses to continue to drink.
 
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RaymondG

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  • Diabetes was the seventh leading cause of death in the United States in 2015. This finding is based on 79,535 death certificates in which diabetes was listed as the underlying cause of death (crude rate, 24.7 per 100,000 persons).5
  • Diabetes was listed as any cause of death on 252,806 death certificates in 2015 (crude rate, 78.7 per 100,000 persons).5
Costs
  • The total direct and indirect estimated cost of diagnosed diabetes in the United States in 2012 was $245 billion.6
  • Average medical expenditures for people with diagnosed diabetes were about $13,700 per year. About $7,900 of this amount was attributed to diabetes.6
  • After adjusting for age group and sex, average medical expenditures among people with diagnosed diabetes were about 2.3 times higher than expenditures for people without diabetes.6
Deaths and Cost | Data & Statistics | Diabetes | CDC
Maybe you didnt read my post carefully?

I agree that over eating can kill you and I've said as much.

But can you see that and man can get drunk one night and kill innocent people(other than themselves) as a result, that would not have been killed if he had not drank at all?

Can you see that it is unlikely for a person to eat too much one night and kill an innocent person as a result? It is also much easier to kill yourself in one night from drinking too much liquor than it would be to do the same from eating too much food.

If you are not able to understand this, then I understand..and so should continue as you were.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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The problem with a Christian in owning liquor store is that will lead others into drunkenness every time. The Bible says drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do you want to be a party to people going to hell? I sure don't want that.

The problem with a Christian being a home builder is that wife-beaters live in houses. The Bible says that wife-beaters will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do you want to be a party to people going to hell? I sure don't want that.

The problem with a Christian owning a bank is that will lead to greed and love of money every time. The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Evil people will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do you want to be a party to people going to hell? I sure don't want that.​

Using your logic, there isn't a single business a Christian could rightly own.
 
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Its not a problem for the store owner. Stop blaming the owner for the person choosing to continue to drink to excess. A drunkard chooses to continue to drink.

That would be like a person owning a strip club or a DVD porn shop. It's not the owner's fault if people go to his shop he provides so as to lead them into sin? Yeah, okay.
 
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The problem with a Christian being a home builder is that wife-beaters live in houses. The Bible says that wife-beaters will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do you want to be a party to people going to hell? I sure don't want that.

The problem with a Christian owning a bank is that will lead to greed and love of money every time. The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Evil people will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do you want to be a party to people going to hell? I sure don't want that.​

Using your logic, there isn't a single business a Christian could rightly own.

Sorry, that does not compute. Houses are not exclusive to leading others to becoming a wife beater. That is just silly. Maybe you found a study that a house leads people to be a wife beater? If so, then by all means provide an article or link. If a person owns a porn shop, they will lead others to fornicate. If a person owns a liquor store, they will lead others to get drunk. It's not rocket science, man.
 
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RaymondG

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That would be like a person owning a strip club or a DVD porn shop. It's not the owner's fault if people go to his shop he provides so as to lead them into sin? Yeah, okay.
In your situation, the DVDs are sold specifically to fulfill the lust of the flesh. Liquor stores dont sell liquor for the sole purpose of making people drunk.

A more identical analogy would be a DVD store that sells all movies....that have the small lust filled section in the back corner.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Sorry, that does not compute. Houses are not exclusive to leading others to becoming a wife beater. That is just silly. Maybe you found a study that a house leads people to be a wife beater? If so, then by all means provide an article or link. If a person owns a porn shop, they will lead others to fornicate. If a person owns a liquor store, they will lead others to get drunk. It's not rocket science, man.

I'm glad you see how ridiculous your logic is, by my example.

Alcohol intake isn't inherently sinful. It's what *some* people do with it that is sinful.
 
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1Reformedman

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That would be like a person owning a strip club or a DVD porn shop. It's not the owner's fault if people go to his shop he provides so as to lead them into sin? Yeah, okay.


You arent thinking this through at all. I'm a recovering alcoholic/drug addict. I haven't touched either since May of 2014. I'm also studying to become a drug counselor. An alcoholic is an alcoholic because he chooses to continue to drink TO EXCESS. Just like someone who has the problem of gluttony will continue to eat and eat and eat until he hits bottom.

A store owner is not to blame for you walking into his store and ordering something off the shelf. If you choose to do so, that's on you!! You should put the responsibility on the alcoholic/addict. What you are doing is no different than the addict blaming someone else for his addiction.

Humans have no control over who is saved and who isn't. That is solely in God's purview. To think that one could thwart the will of God is comical to me and unbiblical. Who are you to say God doesn't allow one to hit rock bottom before he saves him. God says we are to preach the gospel and he does the rest. IF God is going to save an alcoholic you, as a Christian, owning a liquor store isnt going to stop that. Furthermore, if I were an active alcoholic and I came into your store and you started preaching at me I would find another liquor store to go to.
 
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In your situation, the DVDs are sold specifically to fulfill the lust of the flesh. Liquor stores dont sell liquor for the sole purpose of making people drunk.

A more identical analogy would be a DVD store that sells all movies....that have the small lust filled section in the back corner.

That is misconnect, friend. It is a FACT that people will get drunk from buying liquor at a liquor store. There is not one liquor store that is not responsible for leading people to fall into drunkenness.
 
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RaymondG

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That is misconnect, friend. It is a FACT that people will get drunk from buying liquor at a liquor store. There is not one liquor store that is not responsible for leading people to fall into drunkenness.
I've been in many liquor stores yet have never been drunk, nor do I have a desire to be.......For I like being in control of myself. Are you saying that I've just been lucky, and one day my luck will run out?......and when it does, I will have the store to blame for it?

Also, what do you think of churches who server real wine during communion....are they wrong and in support of getting drunk?
 
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You arent thinking this through at all. I'm a recovering alcoholic/drug addict. hAVENT TOUCHED EITHER SINCE MAY OF 2014. An alcoholic is an alcoholic because he chooses to continue to drink TO EXCESS. Just like someone who has the problem of gluttony will continue to eat and eat and eat until he hits bottom. A store owner is not to blame for you walking into his store and ordering something off the shelf. If you choose to do so that's on you!! You should put the responsibility on the alcoholic/addict. What you are doing is no different than the addict blaming someone e else for his addiction. Humans have no control over who is saved and who isn't. That is solely in God's purview. To think that one could thwart the will of God is comical to me and unbiblical. Who are you to say God doesn't allow one to hit rock bottom before he saves him. God says we are to preach the gospel and he does the rest. IF God is going to save someone you owning a liquor store isnt going to stop that.

The problem is that the Bible warns us to be sober minded many times. Is a person less sober minded the moment they drink or sip their first glass? Yes. This is a violation of the many verses that tell us to be sober minded because the devil seeks to whom he may devour. Alcohol is an addictive poison unlike food. Most alcoholic drinks offers no nutritional value, and it is scientifically proven that it shrinks the brain. We are not to destroy our temple.
 
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1Reformedman

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The problem is that the Bible warns us to be sober minded many times. Is a person less sober minded the moment they drink or sip their first glass? Yes. This is a violation of the many verses that tell us to be sober minded because the devil seeks to whom he may devour. Alcohol is an addictive poison unlike food. Most alcoholic drinks offers no nutritional value, and it is scientifically proven that it shrinks the brain. We are not to destroy our temple.

That is your problem and you conflate fact with your assumptions
 
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I've been in many liquor stores yet have never been drunk, nor do I have a desire to be.......For I like being in control of myself. Are you saying that I've just been lucky, and one day my luck will run out?......and when it does, I will have the store to blame for it?

Also, what do you think of churches who server real wine during communion....are they wrong and in support of getting drunk?

Again, your not getting it. A liquor store does not care who it sells their liquor to (as long as they are of legal age to do so). If it is an alcoholic, they will sell it to them and contribute to their destruction. The store owner does not care if the alcohol gets in the hands of kids. They know that this is going to happen as a result of their business. An adult is going to buy it for them at some point, and give it to kids; And these kids are going to get drunk (Which is a sin), and they can drive drunk and kill others, and they can fornicate more easily, or fall into unwanted fornication, pregnancy, etc.

Good job liquor store owner. You are destroying your community and not loving your neighbor!
 
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That is your problem and you conflate fact with your assumptions

That really does not refute anything that I said. Do you know that Bible warns us to be sober minded?
Is a person less sober when they take their first sip or are they more sober?
 
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1Reformedman

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Sorry, that does not compute. Houses are not exclusive to leading others to becoming a wife beater. That is just silly. Maybe you found a study that a house leads people to be a wife beater? If so, then by all means provide an article or link. If a person owns a porn shop, they will lead others to fornicate. If a person owns a liquor store, they will lead others to get drunk. It's not rocket science, man.

I find it interesting you say "Houses are not exclusive to leading others to becoming a wife beater." The same is true for a Christian owning a liquor store in that just because a Christian does own such a store does not automatically mean everyone who walks through that door is an alcoholic nor does it mean that everyone who walks through that door is going to become an alcoholic just because a Christian owns the store.
 
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1Reformedman

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That really does not refute anything that I said. Do you know that Bible warns us to be sober minded?
Is a person less sober when they take their first sip or are they more sober?

That is directed to believers NOT unbelievers. You are trying to put a burden on the store owner that isn't his to carry. Its like you're trying to condemn a business owner. Its obvious you dont know that much about addiction or who is to blame for that addiction. You'd rather blame the store owner than the one who does choosing to do the drinking
 
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