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Featured Is it ok to lie in this case?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by CamillaBegumm, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. CamillaBegumm

    CamillaBegumm New Member

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    I would message people a link to the news article, but I dont have enough posts or likes to send pms. If anyone really cares enough you can email me at [email protected] and I'll link you to the news article which better explains the situation.
     
  2. Yennora

    Yennora Buy the truth and sell it not. Pro 23:23

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    Just a quick advice that is not going to answer your question on whether lying is good or bad.

    Make sure that the person is safe to deal with as this matters the most. The person can be an offender (apart from the family's case). Offenders usually play on the emotional factor of their victims in the beginning, and then they start attacking. The situation seems to be really complex and hard to judge. But again, care more about yourself if the person is a trouble seeker. Be cautious, keep an open eye.

    The person doesn't need you to repent nor do they need a pastor. The person needs Christ. Repentance is a personal choice and morality is deeply rooted inside our hearts. The person seems to be mature enough to know the difference between right and wrong.

    Again, care more about your safety. (Also don't let the priest control your actions, he has no right to, if the church will threaten you then you really need to avoid that church on the long run)

    Priests can give advice. But when they get controlling then they are not priests anymore, Pharisees is the right word for it. When it comes to your roommates, try to be more silent and self-contained around them until you get the chance to escape that toxic environment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  3. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    You need to give some details as to what this person exactly did. The fact that you implied that the police had to get involved clues in that it is likely illegal what this person did.

    It's impossible to give good advice not knowing the exact circumstance.
     
  4. JAM2b

    JAM2b Newbie

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    We are always supposed to tell the truth, but that doesn't mean everyone has to know everything. It can be very difficult to be honest when there is fear involved. The solution to that is to address the source of your fear.

    I agree with securing your safety when it come to dealing with this person. But I also know that Jesus commanded us to love our enemies. If you are safe, then do what the Lord leads you to do.

    I would never want to be part of a church like the one you describe. I'd seriously seek a different body of believers. A pastor should never take sides like that. If this person make the church an unsafe place, it is ok to keep him from being there, but it is not ok to prevent people from reaching out or to block someone who could be legitimately seeking help and repentance. Ministers should love and support those of the flock who have made bad choices and help them be restored, in a safe and appropriate way.

    People should not use spiritual and emotional manipulation to control the decisions of others. I believe this body of believers is in great error in how they are dealing with the situation.
     
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  5. CamillaBegumm

    CamillaBegumm New Member

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    Email me at [email protected] and I’ll send you a link to the news story
     
  6. JAM2b

    JAM2b Newbie

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    I am praying for you in your situation and for the safety of everyone involved.
     
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  7. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sounds like everyone is wrong in this situation, lots of sin. However, there is always the Christian way. Forgiveness. Why do you think Jesus Christ of Nazareth stressed forgiveness so much? The act of not forgiving creates a cesspool of other sins as you can see unfolding right before your eyes.
    Until you are willing to share that you have forgiven this person to your church, sin will continue. As far as you lying, this is just the outcome of the original sin of no forgiveness by your congregation which in turn caused you to sin. This can be fixed however, it may not be to your satisfaction or the others but it will be pleasing to the Father.
    Blessings
     
  8. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    Some people are not really Christians that attend church. There are tares among the wheat. They will cause trouble and bring people down with them.
    An incident similar to this happened in my church 20 years ago - not even a law breaking incident though. The women was rebellious and reckless, influencing others in the Church, corrupting the flock. Our loving Pastor was patient, yet firm in his giving direction to her. Still she was out of control; so there comes a time when after good counsel doesn't work, the bad apple must be given the boot.
    This is normal for a Pastor to protect the sheep when a wolf comes in. And so direct instructions are then given to the congregation to ostrisize this person - prohibit any contact with them for your own protection.
    Now, if you disobey your pastor (who is righteous and led by the Spirit in his actions and words), you are quenching the Holy Spirit. This person already created a situation were you lied. They already corrupted your behavior. Take this seriously. The message was given directly to them - you didn't have to repeat it as if that would make any difference to them. You got caught and THIS WAS NO COINCIDENCE! THIS WAS GOD CHASTISING YOU. What if something more serious happened when you were with this person and you were part of It?
    Satan weaves a web of lies, deceit and traps for us to get caught in. For all we know, this person works for him. If not, then this severe discipline is a time out for them to realize their error and hopefully they will repent and later return for forgiveness and mercy.
     
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  9. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Lies are justified when they are the only way to save a life or prevent great damage. This situation is approaching that. But we don't normally expect lies to be necessary in dealing with our church leaders. It seems to me that if you have to lie to your pastor, there's a problem with the church.
     
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  10. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Great is Thy Faithfulness Supporter

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    Lies are a product of satan. Since when have lies ever been justifiable :doh:
     
  11. The Faceless

    The Faceless Has A Face

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    So you definitely would have told the Nazis where the Jewish family was hiding under your floorboards, huh? Good to know.
     
  12. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Great is Thy Faithfulness Supporter

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    Silence is golden.
     
  13. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    I am wondering if they think that this man will use you to get access to them, and they fear for their safety.

    In post #15 you indicated that your church provides you with housing.

    Can you think about how you would feel if you were in their shoes? If you had a nice home and took someone in, and found out that your tenant is talking to a person who caused you harm, would you feel safe?

    Of course, I don't agree with their method of control, threatening, stalking, and spying. So you may want to eventually leave. But while you are living under their roof, you may not want to do things that would jeopardize the safety of their property and people who live there.

    I cannot get involved, but will pray for you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  14. The Faceless

    The Faceless Has A Face

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    Right. Ok. Lol.
     
  15. JAM2b

    JAM2b Newbie

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    I believe that this person is not without resources, and that they can find the spiritual guidance and acceptance that they need without relying on you. If you have expressed a general love and forgiveness to this person, then that is all you are responsible for. If you are contacted again, then refer this person to a same gendered peer that they can get support and fellowship from. Sometimes losing friends is part of natural consequences to behavior, but that does not mean they can't make new friends. Clinging to an old group or an old acquaintance in an unhealthy, and possibly inappropriate, way is not productive for them. If there truly is no one local, then online friendships can be sufficient for a time. For this person it is time for fresh start and new people with new boundaries.

    In a nutshell, both this person and your church is in error. The pastor should secure some spiritual support for this person, even if it is from a source outside your church, and this person should respect appropriate boundaries.

    But, also, keep in mind that your church has put an unfair ultimatum on you and other members. Their concern is understandable, but as an adult, no one should be threatened in the way you have been in order to maintain control. This is spiritual abuse. I think you need to be seeking other arrangements for yourself, and look for another place to worship. When you are able to leave, tell them why so that they can consider their actions.
     
  16. Sam91

    Sam91 Child of the Living God Supporter

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    There is the duty to protect the victim, so I don't criticise the church. Putting someone out of the Church may cause the offender to repent but often won't.

    OP if you are female (your profile doesn't say) it probably isn't proper (or safe) for you to be counselling him.
     
  17. THE W

    THE W AFRIKANB0T

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    There's rahab...

    But, as mentioned, there isn't enough information to make a judgement.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  18. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    Then that's all the more reason to focus on getting yourself out of an unhealthy situation rather than on this guy.
     
  19. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    We hear only one side of the store. One has to stop right at the start. No.. its never ok to lie. There is no nice lie.. white lie..good lie.
     
  20. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    so you would have told the nazis where the Jews were . Instead of lying and saying you didn’t know . Lying to an oppressor to protect innocents is ok in my book. The first time you have to do it is the last time you’ll think it’s a major problem.whe I was a teen , I had to lie to my father to protect my sister from his sadism
     
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