Is it OCD?

[darkwing70]

I've been reading several of the posts here and am almost convinced now that I suffer from OCD. I have suffered from mild to moderate depression for most of the last 11 years, but never considered it may be related to OCD. I thought you had to be like the guy in the show Monk (TV show on the USA network) where you obsess about everything being in place or wash your hands every few minutes. I'm actually not a very organized person and I don't seem to have any outward compulsive behaviors. What I didn't know was that the complulsive behaviors can be internal thought processes.

Anyway, let me share a little history. I had my first experience with depression when I was 18. My perception was that reality seemed to go away. Everything to me seemed disconnected and I was trapped in my head. This caused me great fear and a sense of loss. I talked to a counselor for about a year and eventually I sort of pushed through it. There was no revelation or cure to this depression I simply learned to go on with life. The disconnected feeling has never left me, and I have never been able to bond with another or experience joy or love or heartache with others. It's that feeling of loneliness or of being on an island that I've read others write about. I've struggled with this for so long that I'd all but given up overcoming it.

I was saved in 1991, a few years after my first experience with depression. I thought that this should have torn down the wall in my mind that was keeping me from reality, but this did not happen. I did not get rooted in the Word and ended up backsliding until around June of 2006. Shortly after I got married I started to feel run down and had anxiety problems. After several rounds of medical tests found nothing wrong with me the doctors told me I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I felt pretty hopeless about ever being normal again and began to self medicate with alcohol. I never got into trouble or lost a job or anything tragic, but it was not helping me in any way. I lived this way for almost ten years. Then last year in June 2006 I started to have anxiety attacks again but this time I was getting thoughts that were scaring me. I couldn't stop obsessing about my health either. Then one day the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the sin in my life and urged me to repent. I came back to the Lord and repented of everything I had done since I backslid. The obsession with my health and the anxiety attacks almost immediately went away but were replaced with thoughts that God couldn't forgive me for turning away from him. Hebrews 6:4-6 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 tormented me for a long time. I believed I had been forsaken by God and it tore me up badly. I have since overcome this for the most part, but at times those fears come back. Now I obsess mostly with how bad of a Christian I am. I read and pray, but I suffer from what many of you do as well, that I am not walking in faith as I should be.

To make matters worse, my wife is not saved and we have been fighting a lot. She threatens to divorce me all the time. She makes me feel guilty about things that I've done in the past. Those things that are valid I have apologized for and asked for forgiveness, but many are things I still stand by to this day. She is very controlling and she yells a lot, especially at the kids. I have been taking the kids to a church which I love and they do to, but she hates it. We are going to a different church now that she attends, but for her it's more of a social thing or what she thinks of as fulfilling her obligation to God. She has no interest in being involved or bringing up our kids. I have still been going to the other church on Wednesday's and the kids have been coming with me because the genuinely want to (they are 4, 5, and 11). She thinks I make them go and our last fight was over this church. She thinks that when I agreed to find a church for all of us that I promised I wouldn't go to the other church. I didn't promise her this and I can't get her to understand that this is about me and my faith, not her. Anyway, sorry to go off on this tangent, I just wanted to add that this situation has compounded my OCD and my big fears now are with the possiblity of divorce, bringing my kids up knowing the Lord, having an unbelieving spouse, etc... This is the hardest time in my life. I'm trying to find a good Christian counselor but I'm having trouble finding then, which is surprising since I live in the Atlanta area, a huge metropolitan area in the middle of the bible belt.

Well this has been extremely long and I'm sorry to bore you (yes, I do have self-esteem issues also). I guess I just need to express myself, I've been holding much of this in for a long time.

God Bless each and every one you.

Don

 

[junezephyr]

Heya darkwing, welcome to CF.

I've been reading several of the posts here and am almost convinced now that I suffer from OCD. I have suffered from mild to moderate depression for most of the last 11 years, but never considered it may be related to OCD. I thought you had to be like the guy in the show Monk (TV show on the USA network) where you obsess about everything being in place or wash your hands every few minutes. I'm actually not a very organized person and I don't seem to have any outward compulsive behaviors. What I didn't know was that the complulsive behaviors can be internal thought processes.

You're completely right about obsessive/compulsive problems being internal thought processes. In fact, this is where most of them take place: in thoughts. This is where most of our battles take place. Personally, I have obsessive thoughts without any compulsive behaviors, so pure "O" you could say. And I've suffered from mild/moderate depression for over a year now, accompanied with obsessive thoughts. You're definitely not alone in that one.

Anyway, let me share a little history. I had my first experience with depression when I was 18. My perception was that reality seemed to go away. Everything to me seemed disconnected and I was trapped in my head. This caused me great fear and a sense of loss. I talked to a counselor for about a year and eventually I sort of pushed through it. There was no revelation or cure to this depression I simply learned to go on with life. The disconnected feeling has never left me, and I have never been able to bond with another or experience joy or love or heartache with others. It's that feeling of loneliness or of being on an island that I've read others write about. I've struggled with this for so long that I'd all but given up overcoming it.

Sounds to me you suffer from what is referred to as derealization/depersonalization, which is often accompanied with anxiety and/or depression. I've suffered from this too; it's really frightening and I completely understand that sense of loss and disconnection that you feel. I occasionally have episodes of this still, and the best description of it is feeling like I'm an alien (as funny as it may sound); I feel foreign to my environment. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization) Please don't give up. This is a brain malfunction, and there is always hope for overcoming it. I've personally recovered much through changing my diet alone (much of mine was caused by a mineral imbalance and adrenal insufficiency in my body), as well as reformulating how I respond to stress.

I was saved in 1991, a few years after my first experience with depression. I thought that this should have torn down the wall in my mind that was keeping me from reality, but this did not happen. I did not get rooted in the Word and ended up backsliding until around June of 2006. Shortly after I got married I started to feel run down and had anxiety problems. After several rounds of medical tests found nothing wrong with me the doctors told me I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I felt pretty hopeless about ever being normal again and began to self medicate with alcohol. I never got into trouble or lost a job or anything tragic, but it was not helping me in any way. I lived this way for almost ten years. Then last year in June 2006 I started to have anxiety attacks again but this time I was getting thoughts that were scaring me. I couldn't stop obsessing about my health either. Then one day the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the sin in my life and urged me to repent. I came back to the Lord and repented of everything I had done since I backslid. The obsession with my health and the anxiety attacks almost immediately went away but were replaced with thoughts that God couldn't forgive me for turning away from him. Hebrews 6:4-6 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 tormented me for a long time. I believed I had been forsaken by God and it tore me up badly. I have since overcome this for the most part, but at times those fears come back. Now I obsess mostly with how bad of a Christian I am. I read and pray, but I suffer from what many of you do as well, that I am not walking in faith as I should be.

Remember that God's love for you is unconditional, and your salvation is based on His grace. It's not in how much you can prove to yourself or others what kind of Christian you are. Yes, we are called to obey, but we aren't earning His love. There is a profound peace and rest available to everyone who trusts in Christ. I completely understand how difficult it is though as an obsessive person, and I (along with others here) struggle with this just as much. Just focus on His love, and remember that He is your Father.

I've been labeled with CFS too. May I ask what your diet is like? Do you have any other physical symptoms? There are some things I've changed (as I mentioned above) that have made a world of difference for me.

To make matters worse, my wife is not saved and we have been fighting a lot. She threatens to divorce me all the time. She makes me feel guilty about things that I've done in the past. Those things that are valid I have apologized for and asked for forgiveness, but many are things I still stand by to this day. She is very controlling and she yells a lot, especially at the kids. I have been taking the kids to a church which I love and they do to, but she hates it. We are going to a different church now that she attends, but for her it's more of a social thing or what she thinks of as fulfilling her obligation to God. She has no interest in being involved or bringing up our kids. I have still been going to the other church on Wednesday's and the kids have been coming with me because the genuinely want to (they are 4, 5, and 11). She thinks I make them go and our last fight was over this church. She thinks that when I agreed to find a church for all of us that I promised I wouldn't go to the other church. I didn't promise her this and I can't get her to understand that this is about me and my faith, not her. Anyway, sorry to go off on this tangent, I just wanted to add that this situation has compounded my OCD and my big fears now are with the possiblity of divorce, bringing my kids up knowing the Lord, having an unbelieving spouse, etc... This is the hardest time in my life. I'm trying to find a good Christian counselor but I'm having trouble finding then, which is surprising since I live in the Atlanta area, a huge metropolitan area in the middle of the bible belt.

I'm glad that you've been looking for a Christian counselor, because it sounds as if you and your wife could benefit from someone trustworthy who's in tune with the Lord. I'll pray for you, and I really hope that you find the peace that is rightly yours in Christ.

OCD stuff is probably one of the worst things a person can deal with. We're all here to help you though it though, 'cause we're all going through it together. Something that I do that helps sometimes: When I'm experiencing an intrusive thought (or thoughts), I take a moment and separate myself from the thoughts. I acknowledge that I am not subject to these thoughts, and that I have the right to cast them down. I don't know if I've helped at all, but I will definitely say a prayer for you and offer my support when I can. 's to you!!

Well this has been extremely long and I'm sorry to bore you (yes, I do have self-esteem issues also). I guess I just need to express myself, I've been holding much of this in for a long time.

God Bless each and every one you.

Don

You haven't bored me! I'm very happy that you've expressed yourself (sometimes that in itself can offer much relief!). God bless you as well!

 

[darkwing70]

junezephyr,

Thank you so much for your kind words. It sort of feels like some puzzle pieces are falling into place. I really had given up on ever getting better. I guess I need to step out and find a Christian counselor who can treat OCD. I've sort of isolated myself for the last 11 years. I work and have decent relationships with my coworkers, but I don't have any close friends. I work, then go home and take care of the children and home. I'm even having a hard time connecting with people at church. My family (parents, sister, etc..) live in Michigan but I live in Georgia. Nobody in my family would really understand this anyway, I am the only one who is saved. My parents don't seem to want to believe in Jesus. My sister is a recovering alcoholic/addict and has damaged her body and most of her relationships. She is very bitter. I feel like she needs me to reach out to her, but I just can't seem to do it. It's like I have no idea how to relate to her and I feel like a failure and that I'm letting her and God down.

You asked me about chronic fatigue. I don't believe I ever had it, I think the doctors at that time couldn't figure out what it really was so that was their diagnosis. I now believe it was just the side effects of depression and anxiety. I actually started working out at a gym 5-6 times a week about 4 months ago. I'm running and lifting weights and physically I feel pretty good. But inside I'm full of fear and despair that won't go away even when I try to give it God. The "Joy of the Lord" seems like something that only real Christians have. I know I am saved in my head. I read the bible daily, pray multiple times daily, go to church twice a week, and fast sometimes. It feels as though being a true Christian is somehow just out of my reach. I do know this is just a feeling and we can't put our feelings above God's Word. So there always seems to be a constant struggle between what I feel and what I know.

The worst part is I can't even share this with my wife. She is not saved and whenever I've brought up my depression in the past she rolls her eyes at best or puts me down for not getting help. I've tried getting help several times but have never gotten relief so I end up giving up. It's not like this has had a profoundly negative affect on my life. I am still functional, I work, play with the kids, I do the majority of the cooking and cleaning at home, I pay all the bills, work out, and probably lots of other little things. The problem is inside my head, I'm weary and have no way to let this out, except by what I'm doing right now. She says I never talk to her, but when I do I get no empathy or compassion. I know I have probably distanced myself from her over the years, but it's because I'm tired of feeling like it's always me against her. It's not always bad, it seems to be cyclic. When it's bad she threatens to divorce me. I believe it's a manipulative tool she uses because she knows I'm afraid to lose my kids. I love them more than anything in this world.

Well, thanks again for letting me vent. I hope it makes some sense. I read my original post yesterday a couple hours after I wrote it and I thought to myself that I was way too negative and maybe out of line. I was afraid people would think I was a jerk, so if that is the case I apologize. I did not mean to come off that way. I was sort of in a funk when I was writing it and the words just came out.

God Bless,

Don

 

[QUannie]

Hi Don,
God bless you!
I wanted to say welcome and you are among friends!!!
You do not sound like a jerk, you sound like someone who is hurting inside and is finally letting it out!!
You may already be doing this, but pray for your wife.....sounds like she is in alot of pain herself. I heard somewhere that hurt people, hurt people!

I'm really sorry for all your going through Don! Keep being the Dad you are to your kids! That will make a big impact on them!
I know what you mean about fear! I have suffered with paralizing fear...it is aweful!!!
i just want to let you know you are not alone!!!
Bless you Don,

Q

 

[gracealone]

HI Don,
I just wanted to add that just because you are functional doesn't mean you're not miserable. I've functioned through every bad bout of Panic Disorder and OCD. OCD/anxiety disorders are intensely painful to endure. It's OK to say that you are suffering because you are.
I don't know what type of help you've been given in the past, but it is extremely important to see a professional psychologist about this disorder. Then you have to do an even braver thing and that is to open up in a very transparent way about the kinds of intrusive thoughts that your OCD plauges you with.
You have to also begin to look at your OCD/anxiety as a real disorder involving the chemistry of your brain and NOT as a spiritual problem. Even though the intrusive thoughts can center on our faith in Christ it's still all OCD.
A good doctor will recommend a medication to help balance your brain chemistry and settle down the intense fight or flight response. Then they will recommend exposure/response therapy to help you to learn to ignore or not attend to the instrusive thoughts which are called "spikes."
Stress is often the culprit that causes our OCD to flare and it sounds as though you have plenty of that. Stress causes many illnesses to flare not just OCD.
The physical exercise you've begun is a huge plus... keep it up. It takes a long time for exercise alone to help bring up serotonin levels but it really does help in the long run.
The feelings of unreality.. I've had those too. I've actually said aloud to my husband, I don't feel real or it's weird to be human. I also have episodes of feeling detached from my body when I'm having a bad Panic attack especially the nocturnal ones.
But... OCD does not minimize God's power in my life it only proves that "His grace is sufficient for me for His strength is perfected in my weaknesses."
Please.. keep seeking help until you find it. Sometimes a Christian counselor can be great to talk to about your OCD but sadly other times, if they are uneducated about it, they can add fuel to the fire by making you feel as if sin is at the root of your disorder. So be careful about who you speak to about this. When I'm having a flare I'm extremely vunerable to the suggestion that it's all my fault or due to some spiritual problem and this is not good for any one who has OCD.
God Bless you Don, and I'll be praying for you and your precious family.
Mitzi

 

[darkwing70]

Thank you very much for sharing. I believe that when I re-dedicated my life to God last year after backsliding for many years that I was delivered from the anxiety attacks. I used to obsess about my health, I thought I had nearly every disease I could think about. I would spend hours on the internet researching health problems and diseases, which only fueled my fears. All that changed when I turned to God but those fears were then replaced with fears that I had lost my salvation because I had backslid and committed way too many sins during that time. I'm mostly over that but now my problems lie with doctrinal issues. I've read so many different opinions about doctrinal issues it seems I don't know what to believe anymore. It just seems there are way too many Christians out there who to me seem way too legalistic and point out how this denomination or that denomination is wrong because of such and such. Or like you have mentioned that we if we just have enough faith then God will provide our every need and want, but if we're disobediant then we're under God's curse. I just listened to a sermon by a Christian who I admire who preached that if we don't tithe then we're under God's curse. I wanted to leave in the middle of that sermon. Through Christ we are free from all curses. I don't want to turn this into a tithing argument, I just believe we are to be givers from our hearts. I don't believe God wants us to be forced to give, we give because he gave to us first. I'm sorry, this just bugged me.

I have seen psychologists but have never had any success, mostly because my primary concern has been depression. I would have to say that depression is more of an issue for me than anxiety. When I feel bad and start having the bad thoughts I feel despair, grief, and hopelessness, which are all hallmarks of depression. The de-realisation and lack of feelings I thought were symptoms of depression as well. I'm really leery of psychologists because they haven't seemed to help me at all or even come close to the mark. The last one I had I went through about 20 sessions with and we went over the anxiety and depression and my obsessions but he never even mentioned OCD and when I told him about my religious faith he went on about how churches make people feel guilty and just really turned me off to him. I guess I want a Christian counselor because I want someone to take my beliefs seriously and not treat Christianity as a cause for mental disorders. I've also tried a few anti-depressants. The first was Paxil, and it made me so groggy and out of it I couldn't get off the couch for four days and I couldn't take it anymore. I did end up taking Zoloft for almost five years for anxiety. It did work for the anxiety, but when my doctor tried to put me back on it last year when the anxiety attacks came back I had some bad side effects. I am very hesitant about taking medications, especially ones that affect your brain chemistry. I've heard some bad stories about how some people become violent or suicidal. I have also learned over the years that many doctors mode of operation is to prescribe a pill for anything and everything. The psychiatrist that prescribed me Zoloft for anxiety also wanted me to take Lithium. That's a pretty heavy duty med that's used for bi-polar disorder and you have to have a liver function test before you take it and frequently while you are taking it. He never told me this and thank God I never took it. I've told myself that unless I become non-functional I will stay off the meds. I thank God often that I am functional. I am all for exposure response therapy as long as I can find someone who is skilled in treating OCD. I actually have not yet been diagnosed with this, I only suspect it myself because of the similarities I notice between my experiences and those on this forum.

One thing I have difficulty with is that I think being a Christian is very hard. Jesus said my yoke is light and my commands are not difficult. So why do I think everything is so difficult to be a Christian? For example, Christians are always saying "give it to God" and even God says for us to cast our cares on him and not to worry (I've heard Christians say that worry is a sin, and that makes me feel sooo much better). My thought is how do I do that? I've tried to give him things, like my marriage and hoping that he will save my wife, but I still come back to it and worry more. Another problem that this is causing me is I try to avoid anything confrontational. I avoid my wife because I'm afraid she'll go off on me. This isn't a paranoia, she does this often. I feel like a coward.

Well, I could go on for hours, but that's not what these forums are for. Thanks again for taking the time to read this and thank you for caring. I will pray for God to bless you richly.

Don

 

[gracealone]

I used to obsess about my health, I thought I had nearly every disease I could think about. I would spend hours on the internet researching health problems and diseases, which only fueled my fears

I've done this same thing. But what I've found is that once I move on from one set of OCD thoughts another will pop up on a different theme. This is because my super active fight or flight center is always looking for something to chew on.

I'm mostly over that but now my problems lie with doctrinal issues. I've read so many different opinions about doctrinal issues it seems I don't know what to believe anymore.

Classic OCD symptoms cause a person to want to solve or prove or have absolute certainty about everything. But the deeper you dig and the more frantic you are about this the bigger the spikes become. They get front and center attention and this makes them seem all the more important and valid.


I just listened to a sermon by a Christian who I admire who preached that if we don't tithe then we're under God's curse.

Yes.... you are right about legalism. "It is by grace that we are saved and not of ourselves.... lest any man should boast". Salvation and Sanctification are two different things. We can and do suffer consequences for sinful choices after we recieve the gift of salvation, but these things don't remove us from our position in Christ Jesus.





I would have to say that depression is more of an issue for me than anxiety. When I feel bad and start having the bad thoughts I feel despair, grief, and hopelessness, which are all hallmarks of depression.

Yes anxiety disorders and depression go hand in hand. If the anxiety/OCD is dealt with then most usually the depression lets up also. It's the continual agony of the bad thoughts that leads to the despair of depression.

I'm really leery of psychologists because they haven't seemed to help me at all or even come close to the mark.

It's not uncommon for a Psychologist to miss the mark on diagnosing OCD, especially of the pure "O" variety. I know of one person on this forum who went through 11 psychologist's until they found the right one. But it was worth it in the end because they finally got the help they needed. But this is also why I said you have to be totally honest and transparent about the thoughts that are plauging you. You can't be vague or beat around the bush. Also many psychologist's still try to treat these disorders with "talk therapy" where you would do positive affirmations to counter the negative thoughts. This can make matters worse in the OCD patient because this causes them to give the thoughts too much attention when they should be doing the opposite. Exposure/Response is the best therapy and it teaches you to just let the thoughts be there in your head like the background static on a radio. In doing so, you can habituate the brain to the thoughts and in time they won't be able to cause the intense anxiety response that they have before.



He went on about how churches make people feel guilty and just really turned me off to him.

Sadly, I'm going to have to say that the psychologist was right on this issue. He was trying to protect you from attitudes by some in the Christian community that harm those who suffer from these afflicitions. The intent is to help but unless they are educated about these disorders they can't offer treatment options any more than they could offer to treat heart disease.


It did work for the anxiety, but when my doctor tried to put me back on it last year when the anxiety attacks came back I had some bad side effects. I am very hesitant about taking medications, especially ones that affect your brain chemistry. I've heard some bad stories about how some people become violent or suicidal.

Going on meds. is a personal choice and side affects in the beginning stages of using them are extremely common but usually wear off over time. I've read about every side affect for every drug out there which of course my OCD brain latched onto immediately as being a very good reason not to try them. All the positive stuff of how they have helped so many people get a new lease on life was shoved aside. I could only see the negative.... and I obsessed about that to the point where I was terrified to try any medication. I was also very proud about it... saying to myself... "some people might need meds. but I can do this on my own... I don't need them... I'm stonger than that." What finally made me decide to give meds. a try, ( and yes it took a trial of four different meds. to find the right one), was that my disorder was not just affecting my life but the life of my family and all those who loved and cared for me. Taking meds. isn't an all or nothing thing. For many it's a temporary thing just necessary when they are having a bad flare. But for some, meds. may be necessary all their life just like blood pressure medication. I'm glad I went on the meds. this time round. It's enabled me to get on with the hard work of exposure/response and it's relieved my family to have their wife, mom and daughter back to her old self. They deserve that.




One thing I have difficulty with is that I think being a Christian is very hard. Jesus said my yoke is light and my commands are not difficult. So why do I think everything is so difficult to be a Christian?

Because you are doing what I have done in the past...by making it MY yoke and MY burden. It's not your's it's His. Even when you don't think it's being carried He's carrying it for you.


For example, Christians are always saying "give it to God" and even God says for us to cast our cares on him and not to worry (I've heard Christians say that worry is a sin, and that makes me feel sooo much better). My thought is how do I do that?

There is a huge difference between common, chosen worry and OCD anxiety. People without OCD can choose to let go of a thought or fear. The thought or fear can pop into their brain and they can actually push it away, ignore it and forget about it. With OCD the brains amygdala is not working properly. This area of the brain contains our fight or flight center. When the unwanted thought pops into our head our fight or flight center has a greatly exaggerated response to it. This response causes an intense feeling of anxiety and this instense feeling of anxiety causes us to percieve the thought as being of utmost importance. Then we begin to try and get rid of the thought, by fighting it, debating with it, trying to solve it, basically trying desperately to undo it. When we do this we give it so much attention that it begins to grow and the anxiety response gains even more momentum and strength until we are on the hampster wheel of obsessing, fighting, anxiety every waking minute. OCD can make a Christian feel like they have no faith at all because of this. This is why I say you have to learn to distinguish OCD from the sin of worry and not make it a spiritual problem. It's a real disorder and there are real treatments available to control and even cure it.


Another problem that this is causing me is I try to avoid anything confrontational. I avoid my wife because I'm afraid she'll go off on me. This isn't a paranoia, she does this often. I feel like a coward.

I can relate. It's my nature to avoid confrontation and I think that the bottling of my emotions when I avoid speaking my mind contributes greatly to my anxiety disorders. I think this is a common characteristic of folk with these disorders. I even break out in hives when I have to speak up or disagree with someone that's how hard it is for me. I am learning to "speak the truth in love" even if the other person becomes angry with me. I also think that the only way to get others to treat us with respect is to not cower away from these confrontations. It's a very hard thing to do and I have to pray that I won't blow up myself when I do it because often I've bottled emotions for so long that when I finally let them out they come out in a greatly exaggerated way.

Well, I could go on for hours,

So could I Don, and it's OK to let these feelings out and really this is what this forum is for. We are here to "Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ."

I will be praying for you that God will give you the guidance and wisdom you need during this time of trial.

I'm praying for your family also.
Mitzi

 

[Liftyourhand7]

Hi Don, Really listen to Mitzi she knows what she is talking about. I also want to welcome you to this forum it has been of great help to me and I know it will be to you also. God is faithful and will get you through all that you are going through. Already you have been given such great advice, so I don't really have much to add, but know that I will be praying for you. Love In Christ,Jan