Is it more important to value the Word of God over the US Constitution?

[DogmaHunter]

I would be content with the United States publicly endorsing Christianity while not endorsing either Protestantism or Catholicism. It's important to put Christ first.

There you have it. The first disagreement already.
The point exactly: it is not upto you, it's upto those in power! THEY will be the ones deciding what YOU, just one citizen among 250 million, are obligated / prohibited to follow as a religion.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

There you have it. The first disagreement already.
The point exactly: it is not upto you, it's upto those in power! THEY will be the ones deciding what YOU, just one citizen among 250 million, are obligated / prohibited to follow as a religion.

The Lord and his Holy Word are the final authority on all matters. If our heavenly father wants to be recognized as the god of our nation, and indeed every nation, as Psalms 33:12 indicates, there is your authority.

You’re an atheist, so I realize that you don’t agree.

 

[durangodawood]

The Lord and his Holy Word are the final authority on all matters. If our heavenly father wants to be recognized as the god of our nation, and indeed every nation, as Psalms 33:12 indicates, there is your authority....

Does it seem to you that the countries which do (or did) have a Christian state-religion have actually been more blessed than the USA, on average?

 

[ananda]

I would be content with the United States publicly endorsing Christianity while not endorsing either Protestantism or Catholicism. It's important to put Christ first.

What about a Hindu interpretation of Christ?

 

[zephcom]

You must like pulling my leg.

I'm just going to assume that it isn't really there and you just took some priest's word for it.

Thanks.

 

[bcbsr]

Psalms 33:12: "Blessed is the nation whose god is the Lord."

1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Scripture tells us that it's important to make God the Lord of our nation, but the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution says that there shouldn't be a law respecting a particular religion. Do you believe it's more important to value the Word of God here, or the US Constitution?

The reason why the founders made that rule was because of what happened in Europe with its religious wars and denominational oppression. When you combine church and state, who gets to define what constitutes "God" or "God's Word"? Muslims? Heretics? What kind of oppression should those who disagree with the religious establishment expect? What kind of rights curtailed, like curtailing freedom of speech and banning literature? Look at Islamic states. You want that?

It's much better for the Government not to interfere in religious matters. Even Rome tried to accommodate a degree of religious rule in Israel, and the Messiah ended up being murdered by the religious elite who were in power at the time.

 

[RDKirk]

As a catholic, ask protestants how the christian religion has lead to war.

I would point out that embedded in Catholic doctrine is a belief that the Church should, in fact, be the unified guide of all human government activities.

American Catholics tend to ignore that doctrine. There was a pope back in the latter 1800s who criticized that attitude of American Catholics.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The Lord and his Holy Word are the final authority on all matters. If our heavenly father wants to be recognized as the god of our nation, and indeed every nation, as Psalms 33:12 indicates, there is your authority.

The Constitution is the law of the land.
The Supreme Court is the final authority on the Constitution.

If you, personally, want to recognize your god as the god of our nation, be my guest. But it is not so as a matter of law.

 

[jayem]

In reality, it's possible to have a state religion without it becoming corrrupted.

In your vision, what specifically would a state religion entail? Would it be mostly ceremonial (like the Church of England)? Or would it be an integral part of government? Would all legislation have to strictly conform to religious doctrines? Would followers of other religions be able to run for office, or serve as government employees? Would public tax money be used for specifically religious purposes--like evangelization for the state religion? Would followers of different faith's be allowed to worship freely, and to evangelize the public on behalf of their beliefs?

I'm a detail man. Details are vitally important.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The Lord and his Holy Word are the final authority on all matters. If our heavenly father wants to be recognized as the god of our nation, and indeed every nation, as Psalms 33:12 indicates, there is your authority.

You’re an atheist, so I realize that you don’t agree.

It's like you've already forgotten what the topic of discussion was after only 2 posts.

Nevermind, I see that having a conversation is too much of a challenge.

 

[jayem]

Some little known American history:

There was a movement during the Civil War to amend the Constitution so as to explicitly acknowledge this country's dependence on God as sovereign and Jesus as savior. It was thought that slavery, and the war itself, were divine punishments for failing to recognize God, and God's law in the Constitution. (The only reference is the date convention ("In the Year of our Lord...") in the signature section.) The organization supporting this was called the National Reform Association--the NRA of the 1800s. It included some prominent Congressmen and clergymen of the day. It used petition drives in attempting to get their "Christian Amendment" passed. Supposedly it was one of the first uses of this tactic to influence Congress. But Pres. Lincoln was non-committal, and after the war ended, Congress's attention was focused on the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments. It was also opposed by some clergy, who feared a government-recognized faith could eventually restrict religious freedom. A leading opposition group was the Free Religious Association, led by a Unitarian minister with the uber-cool name of Octavius Frothingham. In the end, the Christian Amendment was never enacted. But it's an interesting story. The link has more details. (BTW: it mentions Octavius as an opponent, but his name is misspelled as "Froghinham." Which would be even more cool. )

The NRA (National Reform Association) and the Christian Amendment

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Anyone who actually wants to live under a theocracy is welcome to move to one. I will gladly pay for your plane ticket out of my country.

 

[bhsmte]

I disagree with the premise of your response. In reality, it's possible to have a state religion without it becoming corrupted. After all, the Word of God cannot be corrupted.

When people are involved, anything can become corrupted.

 

[bhsmte]

I would be content with the United States publicly endorsing Christianity while not endorsing either Protestantism or Catholicism. It's important to put Christ first.

You can live what you deem to be a christian life personally, without the help of the constitution.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Psalms 33:12: "Blessed is the nation whose god is the Lord."

1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Scripture tells us that it's important to make God the Lord of our nation, but the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution says that there shouldn't be a law respecting a particular religion. Do you believe it's more important to value the Word of God here, or the US Constitution?

Yes. We shouldn't need a law to tell us to honor God.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

In your vision, what specifically would a state religion entail? Would it be mostly ceremonial (like the Church of England)? Or would it be an integral part of government? Would all legislation have to strictly conform to religious doctrines? Would followers of other religions be able to run for office, or serve as government employees? Would public tax money be used for specifically religious purposes--like evangelization for the state religion? Would followers of different faith's be allowed to worship freely, and to evangelize the public on behalf of their beliefs?

I'm a detail man. Details are vitally important.

Public schools should teach that Jesus is savior. There should also be prayer in public schools.

 

[bhsmte]

Public schools should teach that Jesus is savior. There should also be prayer in public schools.

Why?

Anyone can pick a church to do the same.

 

[Tanj]

Public schools should teach that Jesus is savior. There should also be prayer in public schools.

Is that it? That's the only difference? Should Jewish kids get an exemption?

 

[Paulos23]

Public schools should teach that Jesus is savior. There should also be prayer in public schools.

Even to kids that are not Christain?

 

[jayem]

Public schools should teach that Jesus is savior.

No. That's the church's job. It belongs in Sunday school. Or vacation Bible study. Or church summer camp.

There should also be prayer in public schools.

Anyone can pray privately in public school. I'm sure a lot of kids do. Especially when they're hit with a pop quiz. And AFAIK, with the school's permission, they can form religious clubs or Bible study groups that meet before or after class. But if the school allows, let's say, Baptist students to have after-class prayer meetings, it would have to do the same for Jewish students, or LDS students, or students of any other religion. Do you have a problem with that?