Is it immoral to eat bacon?

[Itagaki]

I am not sure what you mean by Shabbat. If you mean the entire Old Testament Law then no I do not observe it. I was using those verses above to illustrate that some of the Old Testament Law seems to be irrelevant to this day, if not insanely cruel. In regards to eating pork or unclean meats I have tried to stay away from them in the past, but I do sometimes consume them, but not regularly. Expelled from my people must I go!!!

Observing Shabbat is the Fourth Commandment. Do you keep the Shabbat? It's Friday sundown until Saturday sundown. No work, shopping or leaving your home is allowed, by Jewish Law. Ask any Rabbi.

In the Bible, you were stoned if you even did yard work on Shabbat.

http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

 

[Ultima4257]

I am not sure what you mean by Shabbat. If you mean the entire Old Testament Law then no I do not observe it. I was using those verses above to illustrate that some of the Old Testament Law seems to be irrelevant to this day, if not insanely cruel. In regards to eating pork or unclean meats I have tried to stay away from them in the past, but I do sometimes consume them, but not regularly. Expelled from my people must I go!!!

Oh ok I see now what it is. If you are referring to do I observe Saturday as the Sabbath no I do not. It has always been Sunday for me, but I still do work because my job requires it, even though I wish I didn't have to. I will say however I have comtemplated that before, if Saturday should be observed as the sabbath. I thought about joining a Seventh Day Adventist church, but in the end I felt it wasn't that big of a deal. As long as you observe one day I guess it is cool.

 

[Itagaki]

Oh ok I see now what it is. If you are referring to do I observe Saturday as the Sabbath no I do not. It has always been Sunday for me, but I still do work because my job requires it, even though I wish I didn't have to. I will say however I have comtemplated that before, if Saturday should be observed as the sabbath. I thought about joining a Seventh Day Adventist church, but in the end I felt it wasn't that big of a deal. As long as you observe one day I guess it is cool.

I'm not a 7th Day Adventist (God no!!!) but I do know God never changed the Sabbath.

Show me which verse says God decided to change Shabbat. He never did. So you are breaking the Fourth Commandment.

 

[Ultima4257]

Observing Shabbat is the Fourth Commandment. Do you keep the Shabbat? It's Friday sundown until Saturday sundown. No work, shopping or leaving your home is allowed, by Jewish Law. Ask any Rabbi.

In the Bible, you were stoned if you even did yard work on Shabbat.

Judaism 101: Shabbat

Fair enough. However, Jesus did say in Mattherw 12 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24 The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
25 He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”
27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” The sabbath was a big deal to the jewish people, but the pharisees took it to a whole different extreme and Jesus corrected them on it many times because of it.

 

[Itagaki]

If you want to follow the 10 Commandments, you must honour Shabbat, or you're breaking it.

I know for a fact no one on here keeps it, so why do they try to make others follow their laws? Hypocrites.

 

[Ultima4257]

I'm not a 7th Day Adventist (God no!!!) but I do know God never changed the Sabbath.

Show me which verse says God decided to change Shabbat. He never did. So you are breaking the Fourth Commandment.

That may be true, I don't know of a verse in the bible that says that the sabbath day was changed. With that in mind however, I would like to point you to this verse. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. Colossians 2:16 Granted the verse doesn't say the day was changed, but it does seem by this verse makes a case that it doesn't matter if you observe it on Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Itagaki]

That may be true, I don't know of a verse in the bible that says that the sabbath day was changed. With that in mind however, I would like to point you to this verse. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. Colossians 2:16 Granted the verse doesn't say the day was changed, but it does seem by this verse makes a case that it doesn't matter if you observe it on Saturday or Sunday.

Paul doesn't get to override the Law of God. Who made him God? Obviously no one.

He condemned marriage and said it's better to be single. God never said that. He even told people to eat meat offered to idols. Jesus outright condemned that in Revelation.

Just sayin'.

It does matter. You don't get to decide how you honour the Commandments. That would be like me saying, I'll only kill blacks, and not murder anyone else. No, you don't get to decide who to kill and who to spare. All murder is wrong. And the Sabbath is only on Friday evening to Saturday evening, NOT sunday. It never has been sunday and never will be sunday.

 

[seeingeyes]

If you want to follow the 10 Commandments, you must honour Shabbat, or you're breaking it.

I know for a fact no one on here keeps it, so why do they try to make others follow their laws? Hypocrites.

Poor lunatic acquired, hammer engaged.

 

[Itagaki]

Poor lunatic acquired, hammer engaged.

Are you calling Ultima a lunatic? That's not very nice. I think he's quite nice, actually. Very civil and composed.

 

[Ultima4257]

If you want to follow the 10 Commandments, you must honour Shabbat, or you're breaking it.

I know for a fact no one on here keeps it, so why do they try to make others follow their laws? Hypocrites.

You have a point. Jesus said in Matthew 7 Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. I have been taught though that the reasoning behind the law was to show us that we cannot keep it and it was to show us our need of a savior. No one can keep the law perfectly, except Jesus.

 

[Itagaki]

You have a point. Jesus said in Matthew 7 Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. I have been taught though that the reasoning behind the law was to show us that we cannot keep it and it was to show us our need of a savior. No one can keep the law perfectly, except Jesus.

That's the standard answer.

The problem is, it's not what the Jews say. As far as they say, the Mosaic Law was never even given to Gentiles, so we were never under it in the first place.

How much of a problem that creates for the evangelicals, who can say.

Most Christians know almost nothing of Judaism, so it's not surprising they feel condemned for not obeying a law that was never given to anyone but the people of Israel to begin with.

 

[seeingeyes]

If you want to follow the 10 Commandments, you must honour Shabbat, or you're breaking it.

I know for a fact no one on here keeps it, so why do they try to make others follow their laws? Hypocrites.

Who? Who are "they"? Who here told you to follow this law? Who are you accusing of hypocrisy? You want a fight so badly that you are shadow boxing.

 

[captainkate]

"Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’”
After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”)" (Mark 7:14-19)

Exactly the quote I was looking for! Nothing is unclean, but some stuff just tastes bad!

 

[Ultima4257]

Paul doesn't get to override the Law of God. Who made him God? Obviously no one.

He condemned marriage and said it's better to be single. God never said that. He even told people to eat meat offered to idols. Jesus outright condemned that in Revelation.

Just sayin'.

It does matter. You don't get to decide how you honour the Commandments. That would be like me saying, I'll only kill blacks, and not murder anyone else. No, you don't get to decide who to kill and who to spare. All murder is wrong. And the Sabbath is only on Friday evening to Saturday evening, NOT sunday. It never has been sunday and never will be sunday.

That is true, Paul obviously isn't God. I am not sure of the verse you are referring to in Revelation that speaks of Jesus condeming eating meat sacrificed to idols. The verse regarding marriage by Paul is actually spoken of as not of God, in other words it was his opinion. 1 Corinthians Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. I don't think that Paul was wanting to make it into a commandment per say, he just thought if a person could devote themselves entirely to the work of the gospel and not fall into lust or fornication that it would be beneificial.

 

[Itagaki]

That is true, Paul obviously isn't God. I am not sure of the verse you are referring to in Revelation that speaks of Jesus condeming eating meat sacrificed to idols. The verse regarding marriage by Paul is actually spoken of as not of God, in other words it was his opinion. 1 Corinthians Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. I don't think that Paul was wanting to make it into a commandment per say, he just thought if a person could devote themselves entirely to the work of the gospel and not fall into lust or fornication that it would be beneificial.

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Revelation 2:20, the words of Jesus Christ the LORD

 

[Itagaki]

Exactly the quote I was looking for! Nothing is unclean, but some stuff just tastes bad!

Bacon is so good, it has to be a sin!

 

[Itagaki]

Who? Who are "they"? Who here told you to follow this law? Who are you accusing of hypocrisy? You want a fight so badly that you are shadow boxing.

Those who tell others to keep the Law but do not follow it.

 

[Ultima4257]

That is true, Paul obviously isn't God. I am not sure of the verse you are referring to in Revelation that speaks of Jesus condeming eating meat sacrificed to idols. The verse regarding marriage by Paul is actually spoken of as not of God, in other words it was his opinion. 1 Corinthians Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. I don't think that Paul was wanting to make it into a commandment per say, he just thought if a person could devote themselves entirely to the work of the gospel and not fall into lust or fornication that it would be beneificial.

You know what, I think I posted the wrong verse here. Sorry about that, this wasn't the one I was thinking of.

 

[seeingeyes]

Those who tell others to keep the Law but do not follow it.

You specifically said "here".

I know for a fact no one on here keeps it, so why do they try to make others follow their laws? Hypocrites.

You can go ahead and name names, we are all anonymous anyway.

 

[Itagaki]

You specifically said "here".



You can go ahead and name names, we are all anonymous anyway.

I prefer not to.

I'm not like that.