Is it Ever Okay to Kill

[Max S Cherry]

Well from what I undestand of the Bible, isn't Jesus(PBUH) supposed to come back and kill all the evil ones, ala, genocide.

Yes, but that is the future. Christians are not instructed to do this.

Is it acceptable to kill another? Yes it is, for sur.

Self-defense, saving innocent people's lives, the death penalty, etc.... I could go on and on about this for sure. If I kill someone who is assaulting me or someone else, that's justified. You think just because we are humans, that we are supposed to just roll over and take it?

Thank you for your response. I never think we should roll over and take it. Christians should stand firm and take it. Your particular religion may have a different stand.

 

[Max S Cherry]

I'm pretty sure God is going to forgive me allot quicker for saving innocent lives, instead of standing there and allowing them to die because I wanted to "feel good" about not getting blood on my hands.

From many of the posts here, I get the impression that some are thinking that there are only two possible courses of actions: killing or standing idly by and doing nothing to help.

I do not believe this to be the case. One can help out someone in need without being willing to take a life in the process. People do bad things. They always have, and until the end, they will continue to do so. Christians are not told to right the wrongs of the world, and we have every right to believe that we will suffer and be at odds with the world. We may have to die trying to help someone, or we may be able to help avoid any loss of life. The decision to act is ours, but the outcome is not.

 

[Jake255]

You believe your "don't murder killers" and "don't spare people pain" is justifiable to God. What's the diff?

Thanks miniverchivi btw!

You do realize God allows pain and suffering, right? He allowed the apostles to be murdered as well as His own Son.

What you and others suggest here is we play "god" by choosing who should live and who should die, who we deem should die, then we should kill. We justify ourselves by creating our own morality and calling it "good".

 

[Jake255]

So lets use recent events as an example. Lets say you confronted the Newtown shooter in the middle of his rampage and you have a gun. Lets say you see him shooting innocent women and children and you yell FREEZE DROP YOUR WEAPON. Then he starts shooting at you. You gave him the chance to stop and disarm himself yet instead he chooses to try to kill you too. In the adrenaline filled moment you see that your only choice is to kill him in order to save the lives of yourself and the others in the area.

Is killing the threat (I.e. the shooter) unforgivable? Would you consider the person who shot the threat in this scenario a murderer?

This is mainly in your response of justifying things is what Americans do best.

What you are presenting is theoretical and I am presenting what we, as believers, are instructed to do per the Bible. Nowhere in the NT do I see where God is telling me I should kill someone for causing me bodily harm and/or causing someone else harm.

All I see is to forgive your enemies and turn the other cheek.

 

[Jro]

You do realize God allows pain and suffering, right? He allowed the apostles to be murdered as well as His own Son.

What you and others suggest here is we play "god" by choosing who should live and who should die, who we deem should die, then we should kill. We justify ourselves by creating our own morality and calling it "good".

I don't understand how saying "God does not want us to play God" is any different than "God does not want us to allow murders to happen." Inaction is as much a choice as pulling the trigger.

 

[Jake255]

I don't understand how saying "God does not want us to play God" is any different than "God does not want us to allow murders to happen." Inaction is as much a choice as pulling the trigger.

What I am saying is as believers we should not kill another human being, it is not our right to do so.

If you are only giving me 2 choices, either "inaction" or "pulling the trigger", then I would chose "inaction". If I don't have a gun, then I would be unable to "pull the trigger", so my only choice would be "inaction". Which is not true, I have other choices, I could run, I could get others to safety, I could block a shot to save someone else. I could call the police, etc. What I would not do is kill another person.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I don't understand how saying "God does not want us to play God" is any different than "God does not want us to allow murders to happen." Inaction is as much a choice as pulling the trigger.

True.

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+4:16-17&version=KJV

 

[Jake255]

True.

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

This is taking the scripture out of context -

now we are saying murder is "good", you are justifying yourself and calling it "good".

You are going back to the OT laws - "an eye for an eye", we are no longer under the OT, we now forgive our enemies - not kill them.

 

[johan77]

You can use a gun to hurt only the attacker (not to kill), to stop him from killing others.
Anyway, if it happens (not by purpose) that the attacker is killed, why do you qualify as "murder" the killing of smb else in that specific situation of self-defense or defending others? Yes, our call is to save lives, including the one of the attacker, and we shouldn't desire to take smb's life, even the one of the attacker.
When you say that you can still call the police: what do you expect them to do when they come? To implore the attacker to stop and nothing else? It's not fair and logical to expect others to do ("dirty jobs") what you could do in the first instance.

 

[Jake255]

You can use a gun to hurt only the attacker (not to kill), to stop him from killing others.
Anyway, if it happens (not by purpose) that the attacker is killed, why do you qualify as "murder" the killing of smb else in that specific situation of self-defense or defending others? Yes, our call is to save lives, including the one of the attacker, and we shouldn't desire to take smb's life, even the one of the attacker.
When you say that you can still call the police: what do you expect them to do when they come? To implore the attacker to stop and nothing else? It's not fair and logical to expect others to do ("dirty jobs") what you could do in the first instance.

I agree we could simply stop the attacker by shooting them in the leg or something, however violence, for believers in anyway, is not ok.

I see your point about calling the police, except it IS their job to keep communities safe, is it not? Is it really passing a "dirty job" onto someone else whose job it really is?

 

[michaelG1949]

i m new here but i also believe if your intention is to stop someone but not to kill them but they do die it is not the same. in the OT it talks about killing an intruder after dark and also the criminals death is on his hands. i dont intend to kill anyone with a gun or my car.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I tried to address this issue under the title "Pacifism," but there were not very many people interested in a wide pacifism discussion. Since I am confronted by the topics of gun control, gun rights, and worries of possible firearm legislation in nearly every newscast I see, I thought I might try to limit the discussion to one very specific pacifistic topic, killing.

As a Christian, I do not believe it is ever acceptable for one person to kill another person. What are your thoughts?

Is it ever acceptable (moral, good, etc.) to take a person's life?

If you think/believe it can be acceptable, under what circumstances would it be permitted?

killing in self defense, killing people that harm society. I believe when a 2 year is raped and given a permanent STD, then the rapist should be put down, so he can't harm anyone else. But sadly this man will be out in less then 4 years for pleading to a lesser charge. Like fondling her privates with his finger.

 

[michaelG1949]

i dont believe in intentional killing and depriving someone the chance to repent. but i have nothing against severing spinal chords to render people harmless. they can still be saved then.

 

[HCrossth2012]

Peace to you.

No, never.


God bless

 

[Glas Ridire]

i m new here but i also believe if your intention is to stop someone but not to kill them but they do die it is not the same. in the OT it talks about killing an intruder after dark and also the criminals death is on his hands. i dont intend to kill anyone with a gun or my car.

That is kinda the core of the issue. Intending to stop the felon is perfectly reasonable and may even be a moral imperative. If the felon dies as a result of the method they demanded be used to stop them, then it is on them guilt-wise. I would say my position is better phrased: I don't want to kill anybody in any of the several ways I could, but if I have to to stop a felon from harming an innocent, my attention will be on stopping the felon and I'll worry about trying to save them after they have been stopped. The first priority where an innocent is in imminent threat of great bodily harm or death, is to stop the threat. Unfortunately the quickest most decisive means of stopping the threat, usually lead to death. I am fond of the .454 not because it kills remarkably efficiently, but because there is almost no concern that I will have to put a second round on a man-sized threat. Every bullet in the air is a liability, I'd rather stop a threat with fewer shots, more decisively and yeah. . . I guess there is an increased probability of death (of the threat) with that.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is taking the scripture out of context -

Many scriptures are taken out of context, yours below included.

now we are saying murder is "good", you are justifying yourself and calling it "good".

Killing someone in defense of your life or the life of another isn't murder.

You are going back to the OT laws - "an eye for an eye", we are no longer under the OT, we now forgive our enemies - not kill them.

The 'enemies' that were to be forgiven was the Roman government and it's abuse of Jewish slaves. An 'eye for an eye' was never used by the Jews against the Romans, therefor this is a non-sequitor and an out of context statement.

 

[Paradoxum]

As a Christian, I do not believe it is ever acceptable for one person to kill another person. What are your thoughts?

Is it ever acceptable (moral, good, etc.) to take a person's life?

Yes, and in some cases it could be highly immoral not to kill.

If you think/believe it can be acceptable, under what circumstances would it be permitted?

Self-defence, defence of another, just war, euthanasia (they are well informed and rationally choose to die), to save the world, perhaps in some moral dilemmas.

Murder is wrong for reasons. It isn't just magically wrong. If those reasons don't apply then the killing isn't murder.

If someone is greatly suffering and asks for euthanasia, and you don't help them, then I might consider your frame of mind close to that of a torturer.

 

[Max S Cherry]

Thank you all for responding to my questions. It is truly an interesting subject to me, and I think it is so because of the finality involved. Very few, if any, other actions have the type of consequences that are involved with killing, justified or not. It makes sense that many of us would have different views considering that we are all of mixed faiths and of no faith. Christians, I believe, have rules to follow that should guide us in all our actions, but I am not naive enough to believe that all Christians understand those rules the same as I do. I am not a preacher, and I have not been convicted to try to change people to my view. I like to understand others' views, and that alone explains my interest in the subject.

The thing that I find most curious is the view taken by Christians who believe that not only is it acceptable to kill in defense of others but that it is in fact demanded of us, a duty rather than an option. I follow the path of that thought, and I arrive at issues such as abortion. To those of us who believe that life begins at conception, abortion is murder, and it is not only murder. It is the murder of the most innocent of all humans: those not yet born. Abortion clinics present an immediate threat of death to innocent people daily, but abortion clinics are not bombed daily. Abortion providers are not shot daily. The view espoused by those who believe both that life begins at conception and that Christ demands that we kill to save others does not seem to be a view that even the believers truly accept. I do not see any relevant difference in a school shooting that leaves 20 children dead and an abortion clinic that performs 20 abortions. In both situations, 20 lives are extinguished. (Abortion is not the only situation in which innocents are killed or exposed to immediate threats of death or great bodily harm, but I think it is the clearest example for discussion. )

To me, that view is simply not compatible with Christ's teachings of love and forgiveness. If killing is demanded of us, why are more of us not killing? It seems that even non-Christians who believe that life begins at conception and that killing to save innocents is "right" or "good" should be out killing. Could it be that we all know (whether we admit it or not) that we are not supposed to take a life in order to save lives?

 

[keith99]

Why would you make the claim I would euthanize a pet, when I made no such claim?

It is not our place to end someone's life, when we do, we are playing God.

Garbage, unless yuo think any time you help or harm someone you are also playing God.

 

[Jake255]

Garbage, unless yuo think any time you help or harm someone you are also playing God.

It's not garbage when a person states that God gives life and God takes away - at least, it's supposed to be like that.

Yet, here are Christians who believe it is their RIGHT to kill other people.

It's silly to say to help others is playing God when God TOLD us to help other people. LOL Go read James......