Is it Ever Okay to Kill

[Jro]

I am opposed to killing, but I suppose listening to and enjoying Nickelback is just about as good a reason as any for killing someone.

Glad we can agree on the specifics if not the general.

 

[Max S Cherry]

so, you think it is un-Christian to provide for one's family by not dying senselessly. . . okay. Can you cite a verse that suggests throwing one's (bodily) life away, for no good cause?

I believe our dispute is likely over the term "senselessly." I have not suggested that throwing one's life away for any cause is good.

Well, it is a take on the Good Samaritan formed by asking the question "what would the moral obligation have been had the passers by arrived during the beating and robbing rather than after?" wouldn't the first two still be condemned for passing on the far side of the road and doing nothing?

And I have not suggested that they should have passed by without helping. I suggested that they should not have killed the robbers, and I do not believe that the parable can be taken to instruct Christians to kill. It is a parable instructing us as to the meaning of "neighbor."

Additionally, I'd ask you what John the Baptist advised the two soldiers that asked what they should do after repenting? Do you recall? Did Jesus ever contradict this teaching? In another thread I told the following anecdote:
So back to defensive gun uses. . . . the thing about a defensive gun use is, the trigger doesn't have to get pulled to count. I know when that little waitress was getting slapped around and the thugs were getting ready to gang rape her, they chose to leave rather than get shot. I was there. I was the one who said "NOT in MY neighborhood _____ _________ (insert expletive)" and had the gun in my hand. Did I need a gun? Well, I may be 6'3" and built like an MMA fighter & versed in a bunch of unarmed fighting styles . . . but against 5 thugs who might (yeah right, like none of them would at least have a knife) be armed. Seriously. I knew the response time for 911 was over twenty minutes because it wasn't a white neighborhood & I'd seen calls even for the drive-by shootings that took that long to get a response. That girl needed some help a bit quicker than I was going to get a response to the call. Okay? You still with me? Thing is, the thugs left and I went back inside, watched over the girl with a scoped rifle til she caught the bus she'd been waiting on. I doubt she reported the assault, she didn't speak English and worked at the taco joint down the block. Did a crime get stopped? Well, they were slapping her around and had her pants off her hips by the time I made it to the street. Did it get reported? I didn't report it. Did the probably illegal alien waitress? Thing is. . . stuff like that happens all the time.

You are perhaps not gauging my position properly. I never suggested that we disarm.

Yes. Look at how Jesus is described in Revelations.

And?

I have never heard it used to justify killing, yet every Christian pacifist presumes that God wants them to be martyrs and they should take any opportunity to die that is presented in hopes of getting one of those fancy robes.

I do not believe that God wants me to be a martyr, and I believe that life is precious and not to be disposed of lightly. I do not see why the robe matters.

Christ's mission was a little specific (sarcastic, it was VERY specific) being like Christ is groovy, operating under the delusion that dying just to die honors Him is. . . whack.

Dying just to die really makes no sense to me. I do not even know what you mean by the statement. Christ's mission was very specific, and one of the goals of the mission was to teach us how to live. His refusal to kill people who threatened Him does not seem like the kinda thing to be omitted by those seeking to imitate His example.

Parable of the talents. Good reading. Looking for a way out (of life) instead of doing the appointed work is like the servant who hid his talent and was afraid. . . . how did that story end again? Hey, just cause I read parables and pay attention to the words of Jesus, doesn't mean I am right. . . someone with a completely scripturally unfounded view could be right instead.

I do not want to put words in your mouth, so let me be sure I have your position right. Do you believe that not killing someone in self-defense or in defense of others is "scripturally unfounded?"

 

[Desk trauma]

It is not our place, as believers, to decide when a person's life is to end.

I could not agree more. It's not your place to decide at what point another person choses a swift death over a lingering one. It, should be, their choice not yours.

 

[Jake255]

I could not agree more. It's not your place to decide at what point another person choses a swift death over a lingering one. It, should be, their choice not yours.

I was presented with a question asking me if I would take another person's life, no, I would not even in cases of suffering.

If a person chooses to end their life, you're right, it's not my choice, my choice would lie with not assisting someone who does want to end their own life.

Life and death should be left to God, not us.

 

[tunnelhckrat]

Do I think a Christian has the right to kill for any reason?

Not really

Do I think that some people should be killed?

Yes

If I was in a life or death situation where it was me or him, would I kill?

Most Likely

Do I hate nickelback?

Without a doubt

 

[Glas Ridire]

I do not want to put words in your mouth, so let me be sure I have your position right. Do you believe that not killing someone in self-defense or in defense of others is "scripturally unfounded?"

Not being willing to protect innocents because one fears offending God by doing what it takes to stop vicious felons, requires one to latch on to the "turn the other cheek" passage, misread its scope and then toss out the rest of the book. How many times in scripture is it clarified that YES! we are our neighbors keeper? And yeah killing is extreme & most of the time felons run when confronted . . . but willingness to kill to protect innocents is more in harmony with a reading of the whole Bible.

I believe our dispute is likely over the term "senselessly." I have not suggested that throwing one's life away for any cause is good.

A pacifist always throws their life away senselessly. If the bad guys run out of bullets they are perfectly happy to bludgeon the remainder like baby seals.

And I have not suggested that they should have passed by without helping. I suggested that they should not have killed the robbers, and I do not believe that the parable can be taken to instruct Christians to kill. It is a parable instructing us as to the meaning of "neighbor."

I gave you a real life anecdote. You wanna know why I went out there after asking my bedmate to call 911? I went out because if that was my wife or little girl about to get gang raped I would want someone to do something. I can't admit wishing someone would do something and then not be willing to do something for someone else's wife or daughter . . . that'd be hypocrisy.

You are perhaps not gauging my position properly. I never suggested that we disarm.

Care to clarify? Please. When you said "This is a response I would expect from a non-Christian, but I find it surprising from a Christian. " I got the impression you were advocating capitulation to any ole felon that comes along. Pacifist style.

Dying just to die really makes no sense to me. I do not even know what you mean by the statement. Christ's mission was very specific, and one of the goals of the mission was to teach us how to live. His refusal to kill people who threatened Him does not seem like the kinda thing to be omitted by those seeking to imitate His example.

Did Jesus have kids? Did Jesus have a wife? Your answers to those questions should start getting the wheels turning on why being Christ-like and capitulating to any ole felon are not the same thing. Here is a clue word: Responsibility.

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

As a Christian, I do not believe it is ever acceptable for one person to kill another person. What are your thoughts?

Well from what I undestand of the Bible, isn't Jesus(PBUH) supposed to come back and kill all the evil ones, ala, genocide.

Is it ever acceptable (moral, good, etc.) to take a person's life?

Is it acceptable to kill another? Yes it is, for sur.

If you think/believe it can be acceptable, under what circumstances would it be permitted?

Self-defense, saving innocent people's lives, the death penalty, etc.... I could go on and on about this for sure. If I kill someone who is assaulting me or someone else, that's justified. You think just because we are humans, that we are supposed to just roll over and take it?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Self defense and/or if they listen to Nickelback.

You just got some rep from me on the Nickelback comment lol.

In response to the OP, yes, there are times where it's justified. To defend your own life, or the lives of others, or prevent others from experiencing bodily harm...example...if you walk in and catch someone molesting your kid...shoot them.

 

[Jake255]

Well from what I undestand of the Bible, isn't Jesus(PBUH) supposed to come back and kill all the evil ones, ala, genocide.

Is it acceptable to kill another? Yes it is, for sur.

Self-defense, saving innocent people's lives, the death penalty, etc.... I could go on and on about this for sure. If I kill someone who is assaulting me or someone else, that's justified. You think just because we are humans, that we are supposed to just roll over and take it?

Jesus was also human and it is what He did. We forgive and love, not kill.

God gives life and takes it, there is no other being that should have that right.

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

God gives life and takes it, there is no other being that should have that right.

Remember that next time you kill a bug

 

[Jake255]

Remember that next time you kill a bug

I don't kill bugs. In addition, humans are spiritual beings capable of eternal life, how is this comparable to a bug?

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

I don't kill bugs.

SMH. Probably one of the biggest lies I've ever read

 

[Jake255]

SMH. Probably one of the biggest lies I've ever read

Like I added to my last post, killing a bug versus a spiritual l being is ridiculous to compare.

The bottom line is taking another person's life is not our place or right.

 

[muslimsoldier4life]

The bottom line is taking another person's life is not our place or right.

I'm pretty sure God is going to forgive me allot quicker for saving innocent lives, instead of standing there and allowing them to die because I wanted to "feel good" about not getting blood on my hands.

 

[Jake255]

I'm pretty sure God is going to forgive me allot quicker for saving innocent lives, instead of standing there and allowing them to die because I wanted to "feel good" about not getting blood on my hands.

You are now justifying yourself in your claim that it would be justifiable to God, it's what Americans do best, " in the name of God".

 

[Jro]

You are now justifying yourself in your claim that it would be justifiable to God, it's what Americans do best, " in the name of God".

You believe your "don't murder killers" and "don't spare people pain" is justifiable to God. What's the diff?

Thanks miniverchivi btw!

 

[johan77]

If somebody tries to kill you or others, you need to stop that person. You can do your best to avoid killing him/her. But if the person dies, you are not guilty. You did your best to save lives, including the attacker's life. We are called to save, as much as we can, as many as we can.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How does killing someone in self defense exclude one from the kingdom? Didn't Paul recognize 'murderers' in the church at Corinth? Also there is a big difference between a martyr and a victim.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

Like I added to my last post, killing a bug versus a spiritual l being is ridiculous to compare.

The bottom line is taking another person's life is not our place or right.

So lets use recent events as an example. Lets say you confronted the Newtown shooter in the middle of his rampage and you have a gun. Lets say you see him shooting innocent women and children and you yell FREEZE DROP YOUR WEAPON. Then he starts shooting at you. You gave him the chance to stop and disarm himself yet instead he chooses to try to kill you too. In the adrenaline filled moment you see that your only choice is to kill him in order to save the lives of yourself and the others in the area.

Is killing the threat (I.e. the shooter) unforgivable? Would you consider the person who shot the threat in this scenario a murderer?

This is mainly in your response of justifying things is what Americans do best.

 

[Max S Cherry]

Not being willing to protect innocents because one fears offending God by doing what it takes to stop vicious felons, requires one to latch on to the "turn the other cheek" passage, misread its scope and then toss out the rest of the book. How many times in scripture is it clarified that YES! we are our neighbors keeper? And yeah killing is extreme & most of the time felons run when confronted . . . but willingness to kill to protect innocents is more in harmony with a reading of the whole Bible.

Misreading "turn the other cheek" seems difficult. Misreading "forgive others" and "do as you would have done to you" and "love as I have loved you" seem to be equally difficult. Possessing an unwillingness to kill seems to me to be entirely in harmony with a reading of Christ's teachings.

A pacifist always throws their life away senselessly. If the bad guys run out of bullets they are perfectly happy to bludgeon the remainder like baby seals.

That blanket statement does not seem to indicate anything other than your personal dislike for the term pacifist.

I gave you a real life anecdote. You wanna know why I went out there after asking my bedmate to call 911? I went out because if that was my wife or little girl about to get gang raped I would want someone to do something. I can't admit wishing someone would do something and then not be willing to do something for someone else's wife or daughter . . . that'd be hypocrisy.

And you helped out without killing anyone. Guns are not only functional as tools for killing.

Care to clarify? Please. When you said "This is a response I would expect from a non-Christian, but I find it surprising from a Christian. " I got the impression you were advocating capitulation to any ole felon that comes along. Pacifist style.

Not at all. I do not think for a moment that Christians have to disarm and roll over in the face of danger. Standing up for your neighbors can be done without killing and without walking away. I think keeping arms is an excellent practice, and I do it myself. I do however lack the conviction that killing is acceptable.

Did Jesus have kids? Did Jesus have a wife? Your answers to those questions should start getting the wheels turning on why being Christ-like and capitulating to any ole felon are not the same thing. Here is a clue word: Responsibility.

It seems that I may put more emphasis on not being a respecter of persons and on counting all people as my neighbor than you do. You seem to be holding that one person's life is worth another, and that is a position that I cannot take.