Is it Ethical to be fired for stating Christian beliefs

[KCfromNC]

Then, could you please explain what you meant by this:

Seems self explanatory to me - there's no evidence of his employers interfering in the actions which were listed as examples of religious expression.

 

[Cash80]

Seems self explanatory to me - there's no evidence of his employers interfering in the actions which were listed as examples of religious expression.

Thanks for clarification.

 

[stevevw]

And yet having played against hundreds of Islanders and spoken to even more at Rugby events I have never heard a single one spew the hate Folau has repeatedly. That includes when my college hosted Church College of Hawaii on a tour of the mainland, talking to 4 Mormons who were actively seeking to convert anyone who would listen at the world sevens event held in Los Angeles and on a few of occasions sharing Kava with Islanders.

Funny how the rest of the Islander communities do not reflect the attitude of Folau.

Wait a minute the so called spewed out hate that Folau is suppose to have done is a bible verse that is accepted as part of the Christian bible. So the question is is this verse accepted as part of the Christian, Mormon or whatever religion accepts the bible. Folau is not a Mormon but a member of the Assembles of God which is Pentecostal so it shows that you really don't know him and are making assumptions about him. A fundamental belief of the Assemblies of God is

WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire.

This is also a fundamental belief for Christians
Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Either way sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God. So despite you saying Folau has spewed out hate he has had the courage to express the very beliefs that all the other Polynesian players also believe. So these other christian rugby players secretly believe in their hearts and are quite willing to express this every Sunday and in the privacy of their homes. If they were pressed they would admit this. So how can they condemn Folau for expressing the very beliefs they support but are too afraid to verbalize in public.

Many do not believe in a literal hell as in fire but a place away from God where the soul will have some sort of consequence that is less favorable than those saved. But either way they cannot win when it comes to appeasing non believers as they would object and state it is discriminatory for Christians to dare to say that sinners would end up being in any position that was less than those saved. In other words they believe that there is no sin and there are no consequences for it and anyone who dares oppose this are being haters. So Christians cannot win in a secular world today. This is at the very heart of what is happening.

Jesus talks about hell more than anyone and the bible tells us to warn sinners and try to get them to repent.
Revelation 3:19
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

No matter how you look at it most Christian support this so it is nothing new and not something that is about hate but a fundamental truth of their belief. It is about accountability as with any law there are consequences for breaking them. But as Folau also mentioned which the media cut out was that Jesus loves and forgives sinners and to turn to him and be saved. People today want to water this truth down for the sake of political correctness.

 

[Kaon]

Easter is a celebration of fertility.

Eastre is the fertility goddess, hence the name Easter.
Bunnies and eggs are symbols of fertility, and it is appropriate that Easter is celebrated in Spring time (in the northern hemisphere) which is often when the flowers come and many animals give birth.

The Christians, repurposed Easter, creating a new back story which doesn't at all explain the name Easter or the symbols of bunnies and eggs. They aggressively stole many pagan celebrations, and at times imprisoned or killed many people who resisted their message.

I consider Easter to be a celebration of Spring time and fertility. But especially, I like the chocolate.

Ishtar.

Diana.

Semiramis.

Same spirits originally from Sumer and/or Babylon. Passover is a very specific holy day, with very specific signs to look for and rituals to follow.

 

[stevevw]

Easter is a celebration of fertility.
Eastre is the fertility goddess, hence the name Easter.
Bunnies and eggs are symbols of fertility, and it is appropriate that Easter is celebrated in Spring time (in the northern hemisphere) which is often when the flowers come and many animals give birth.

The Christians, repurposed Easter, creating a new back story which doesn't at all explain the name Easter or the symbols of bunnies and eggs. They aggressively stole many pagan celebrations, and at times imprisoned or killed many people who resisted their message.

I consider Easter to be a celebration of Spring time and fertility. But especially, I like the chocolate.

No not in the country where Folau made his comments and that is all that matters. The hypocritical thing is the weekend the incident happened was the Eater holiday period to commemorate the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins and so they had to put off taking any action. Any hearing that will now happen in the high court will require the boss of RA to swear on the very bible she says is so offensive that just quoting from it causes a person to lose their job and destroys their life. Our politicians swear on the same bible when they take office and our many go to church in support of the bible.
NoCookies | The Australian

 

[stevevw]

The fact his employer has tried to stop him from doing exactly 0 of these things tells me it isn't about them trying to limit his religious freedom.

It tells us that his employer dictates to Folau what is OK to express about his beliefs. If one bible verse is OK then all bible verses are OK. Folau has made plenty of posts that talk about sin and its consequences before and has alluded to those who sin if you look at his site. They cannot start dictating to Folau as that is not religious freedom but religious restriction.

 

[stevevw]

If I decided to open up a business, made it my mission statement that I was to treat all of my customers fairly and equitably and made a contractual obligation for my employees to do the same, then I would not be a happy bunny if one of them posted messages on social media telling my customers that they were going to hell. I do not agree with prejudice and discrimination of any kind and would have no hesitation in sacking someone who felt they had the right to do this sort of thing in my name. They can moan and squirm all they like, I do not want them working for me and damaging the relationship with my customers.

that does not make sense. As just about everyone is an employee of some sort that just about wipes out preaching the Gospel altogether.

 

[Cash80]

It tells us that his employer dictates to Folau what is OK to express about his beliefs. If one bible verse is OK then all bible verses are OK. Folau has made plenty of posts that talk about sin and its consequences before and has alluded to those who sin if you look at his site. They cannot start dictating to Folau as that is not religious freedom but religious restriction.

Exactly.

 

[stevevw]

I am sure there are many Christians working for the RA and they are getting on absolutely fine. They are happy getting on with their own lives and not using their position of privilege to discriminate and hurt others.

So here is a scenario, As many of these players are of the same faith as Folau if a non believer asks them do you believe sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God what would they say. The questioner does not want a politically correct answer but what the player truly believes according to their faith. The belief they support in private and at church on Sundays. Do they deny their belief or do they tell the truth. I guess it will put a lot of Christians in an uncomfortable position.

 

[stevevw]

Religions need to walk very very carefully.

Right now religions enjoy the capacity to be totally prejudiced. They do not have to follow laws associated with equal rights, freedom of religion, or freedom of speech.

If Christians pursue this in the high court then they may find they are worse off. By arguing a christian may be allowed to utter christian sentiments in a public forum at the expense of an employer, may mean that an employee of a christian school, who converts to Islam, may be free to cite his Islamic views in public forums while identifying as a representative of that school...... and that school may find they cant discipline him. After all if you protect on religion then you must protect them all.

This will surely get interesting if it moves beyond the Fair Work Commission.

Not really, the Christian school will be employing the person on the basis of belonging to their faith. So long as that is the case then the employee is meeting that criteria. If they convert to Islam then they no longer meet that criteria. Unlike secular organizations it is more vital for religious organizations to have everyone of the same faith to ensure a consistent approach and culture otherwise it will be undermined. It all depends on they religion and the organization. Some may be involved in a less religious activity where they can allow non religious people and I am sure that this is the case and they have allowed non religious people to express their views on social media. What I don't get is that we here of people bagging Christians all the time calling them all sorts of names and this seems to be all OK. Christians are use to this and they do not complain. Yet when it is the other way around it is like the biggest no no.

 

[Anthony2019]

that does not make sense. As just about everyone is an employee of some sort that just about wipes out preaching the Gospel altogether.

Let's take for example my own job. I am a registered healthcare professional. My own code of conduct requires that I treat people with kindness, respect and compassion, to promote choice and inclusion, and to behave in ways that do not take advantage of others' vulnerability or cause them distress. Even outside my workplace, I have to act in ways that do not bring the profession into disrepute.
If you were under the care of a healthcare professional and then you found out that they were posting disparaging or judgemental comments on social media about you as an individual or as a community, then I am pretty sure that you would feel that they had abused their position of trust.
It is no different with the RA who are, quite rightly, working very hard to tackle discrimination at every level. Many people involved with sports have a very high public profile. In many cases they are seen as role models and as such, people will be influenced by their actions, attitudes and behaviour. The RA have no right to interfere with people's religious beliefs, but they do have the right to distance themselves from people who do not uphold their professional standards of ethics and behaviour.

 

[keith99]

... eggs became associated with Easter because many people avoided eating them during Lent. The last eggs got used up on Mardi Gras (Pancake Tuesday), and being allowed to eat them again was part of the Easter festivities.
...

I take it you have never kept chickens or even been anywhere where tehy are kept. A chicken lays an egg just about every day. Now that is a trait bred for but that breeding started long ago and for centuries chickens have been laying an egg every 2 or 3 days. So the above is rubbish.

 

[keith99]

Wait a minute the so called spewed out hate that Folau is suppose to have done is a bible verse that is accepted as part of the Christian bible. So the question is is this verse accepted as part of the Christian, Mormon or whatever religion accepts the bible. Folau is not a Mormon but a member of the Assembles of God which is Pentecostal so it shows that you really don't know him and are making assumptions about him. A fundamental belief of the Assemblies of God is ...

And my post was a reply to your post saying that many Islanders supported Folau. Perhaps you are unaware that Mormons were far and away the most successful missionaries among the islanders. I do not know Folau personally. I do know what he said and that he converted to AOG from Mormonism some time ago. Your ad hom attack fails.

 

[stevevw]

Let's take for example my own job. I am a registered healthcare professional. My own code of conduct requires that I treat people with kindness, respect and compassion, to promote choice and inclusion, and to behave in ways that do not take advantage of others' vulnerability or cause them distress. Even outside my workplace, I have to act in ways that do not bring the profession into disrepute.
If you were under the care of a healthcare professional and then you found out that they were posting disparaging or judgemental comments on social media about you as an individual or as a community, then I am pretty sure that you would feel that they had abused their position of trust.
It is no different with the RA who are, quite rightly, working very hard to tackle discrimination at every level. Many people involved with sports have a very high public profile. In many cases they are seen as role models and as such, people will be influenced by their actions, attitudes and behaviour. The RA have no right to interfere with people's religious beliefs, but they do have the right to distance themselves from people who do not uphold their professional standards of ethics and behaviour.

So as a Christian you would deny that your belief and the bible states that there are consequences for sin. The thing is a sinner needs to acknowledge they have sinned and have fallen short of Gods laws. For Christians how do you help a sinner to realize they have sinned and that they will not inherit Gods kingdom without telling them. That is a fundamental part of saving someone especially for people who have hardened their hearts to God.

 

[stevevw]

And my post was a reply to your post saying that many Islanders supported Folau. Perhaps you are unaware that Mormons were far and away the most successful missionaries among the islanders. I do not know Folau personally. I do know what he said and that he converted to AOG from Mormonism some time ago. Your ad hom attack fails.

But this still doesn't answer the question. You stated the bible verse is something of hatred. I am saying that many of Folau's christian friends believe in that verse and will express it or listen to it being expressed in their church meetings and bible studies. They believe sinners will not inherit Gods kingdom and therefore their team mates that do not believe and accept Christ are destined for hell. The fact that they do not express this to them does not lessen the fact that they believe this. But some may say that they are neglecting their duty as a Christian in not evangelizing and warning sinners of their fate and telling them that Christ can forgive their sins and they can be saved just as Folau did. The bible also tells us to warn sinners or is this another bible verse that people should not take seriously and disregard.

 

[Anthony2019]

So as a Christian you would deny that your belief and the bible states that there are consequences for sin.

As a Christian, I believe in treating others how I would wish to be treated.
Isaiah 1:17
Psalms 82:3
Luke 6:31
Matthew 22:40
James 2:8

For Christians how do you help a sinner to realize they have sinned and that they will not inherit Gods kingdom without telling them

If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal. And if I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And if I dole out all my goods, and if I deliver my body that I may boast but have not love, nothing I am profited. Love is long suffering, love is kind, it is not jealous, love does not boast, it is not inflated. It is not discourteous, it is not selfish, it is not irritable, it does not enumerate the evil. (1 Corinthians 13).

 

[Pommer]

Then, if that's the case, it shows that the RA is intolerant of Christians. Their own code says that they respect different people's religions, so why can't Christianity be included? Or perhaps, they should be clear in their contracts next time, by stating that they consider the Bible to be a discriminatory literature in order to avoid confusion.

Then the onus is back on the player who should resign, rather than to belong to such an anti-Christian organization.

 

[Cash80]

Let's take for example my own job. I am a registered healthcare professional. My own code of conduct requires that I treat people with kindness, respect and compassion, to promote choice and inclusion, and to behave in ways that do not take advantage of others' vulnerability or cause them distress. Even outside my workplace, I have to act in ways that do not bring the profession into disrepute.
If you were under the care of a healthcare professional and then you found out that they were posting disparaging or judgemental comments on social media about you as an individual or as a community, then I am pretty sure that you would feel that they had abused their position of trust.
It is no different with the RA who are, quite rightly, working very hard to tackle discrimination at every level. Many people involved with sports have a very high public profile. In many cases they are seen as role models and as such, people will be influenced by their actions, attitudes and behaviour. The RA have no right to interfere with people's religious beliefs, but they do have the right to distance themselves from people who do not uphold their professional standards of ethics and behaviour.

If you are not publicly speaking on behalf of your profession but on yourself, you are not bringing the profession into disrepute. I fail to understand how quoting a few biblical verses affect people's abilities either to provide someone first aid or to play rugby well. Therefore, the RA's ethical code is simply about anti-biblical Christianity animus.

Then the onus is back on the player who should resign, rather than to belong to such an anti-Christian organization.

The RA shouldn't be anti-Christian, because as said above, quoting a Bible does not affect the quality of a rugby game. It would be a loss for RA should be so anti-Christian.

 

[stevil]

The only evidence for the existence of a goddess Ēostre is one line in Bede where he suggests that the month name Ēosturmōnaþ is derived from a goddess named Ēostre. Nobody else has ever mentioned her, and it's almost certain that Bede was mistaken.

Well I don't believe Estre actually exists, same as Jesus, very little actually written, certainly nothing by anyone who ever saw or met him.

Every single statement made about this alleged goddess is fiction. In particular, there is no evidence of any connection to rabbits.

Everything written about Jesus is fiction, and yet we have millions of Christians claiming Easter is all about Jesus. Go figure.

 

[stevevw]

As a Christian, I believe in treating others how I would wish to be treated.
Isaiah 1:17
Psalms 82:3
Luke 6:31
Matthew 22:40
James 2:8



If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal. And if I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And if I dole out all my goods, and if I deliver my body that I may boast but have not love, nothing I am profited. Love is long suffering, love is kind, it is not jealous, love does not boast, it is not inflated. It is not discourteous, it is not selfish, it is not irritable, it does not enumerate the evil. (1 Corinthians 13).

I appreciate that we need to show Christs love. But do you think there is a place to call a sinner out. To tell them that there are consequences for sin.