Is it "Christian" to Attack other Faiths?

[gort]

We're talking about you accepting me as a Christian, not me accepting you as a Mormon. Aren't we? I believe, with all my heart, that you are a Christian. All I ask is that you believe the same of me. Christ is merciful. Even if I have His metaphysical form wrong, do you not believe He is full of grace and will accept this human fault? Do we not all have human faults? Is His grace not sufficient to encompass those faults?

I'm not asking you to accept me as a mormon. I truly wish that all were in agreement. However,this is a 2 way street. I condemn no one. Please read John 3:17. However, your BOM does condemn me and others.

Yes, God is merciful, and Jesus said that all blasphemies may be forgiven. BUt one.

Again I say, I truly wish all were in agreement.

<><

 

[calgal]

Hi there!



Since you made it personal....

I don't agree with the bom, the teachings of prophets, nor the doctrines of the CoJCoLDS's. I don't agree with them based upon archaeological evidences (the physical) or on historical evidences (the recorded word).

But more importantly, I don't believe that killing the messenger kills the message. What I see on Christian forums is people who take target practice out on the JW's and the Mormons, thinking that if they hit an unprotected point, that the member will be converted and saved; therefore, the continual onslaught on personal insults against the religion and the people who have that faith.


Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
"That" is what I believe to be the better way.

Come, let us reason together.


and just tell me.


WWJD?


mock a religion or people?


or reason together with them?


~serapha~

John the Baptist said the following:

Matthew 3:7-12

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
And Jesus Himself said the following:

Matthew 12:25-37

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad. 31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. 33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart F57 brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

I think I would do what He did (and don't forget the cleansing of the temple)

 

[AMMON]

We already know what goes on in the temple. You do not need a building made with hands to focus on God and things spiritual. Don't you do that in your ward buildings?

Do you think Christians don't focus on things spiritual? Do you think Christians aren't able to convey their acceptance of Christ as Savior? Do you think Christians don't regard Jesus as sacred and His word as truth? Your temple ordinances only serve to make you think you earned something more special than the Chrsitians who are genuine born-again believers. Should one Christian be regarded as more worthy than another? Your bishops and stake presidents think so.

So, it is your dislike of our alleged belief that only we are saved that leads you tell us that we are not saved? Kind of like an eye for an eye?

 

[AMMON]

I'm not asking you to accept me as a mormon. I truly wish that all were in agreement. However,this is a 2 way street. I condemn no one. Please read John 3:17. However, your BOM does condemn me and others.

<><

And so that gives you reason to strike back and condem me?

 

[Rescued One]

My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right.... I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt.... (Pearl of Great Price, 1981, Joseph Smith-History 1:18-19)

Joseph Fielding Smith, who later became the Prophet of the Mormon Church, said that there is, "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith." (Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, vol. 1, page 189) He claimed that a person cannot be saved if he does not accept Joseph Smith as a true prophet of God and a restorer of the gospel. Mormon apostle Bruce R. McConkie agreed with this doctrine by declaring that there is no salvation outside the Mormon Church in the following quote.

"..man needs more then redemption from temporal death or the death of the body. He must also be redeemed from his fallen spiritual condition which has arisen as the result of his own sins..."Man cannot be redeemed from this spiritual death by an act of Christ alone.." The Restored Church, Pgs. 562,563"Without the atonement, the gospel, the priesthood, and the sealing power, there would be no salvation. ..It it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation, There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Pgs. 669-671)

Ammon, why do you want us to regard you as a saved Christian when the LDS don't believe we are saved?

 

[AMMON]

My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right.... I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt.... (Pearl of Great Price, 1981, Joseph Smith-History 1:18-19)

Joseph Fielding Smith, who later became the Prophet of the Mormon Church, said that there is, "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith." (Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, vol. 1, page 189) He claimed that a person cannot be saved if he does not accept Joseph Smith as a true prophet of God and a restorer of the gospel. Mormon apostle Bruce R. McConkie agreed with this doctrine by declaring that there is no salvation outside the Mormon Church in the following quote.

"..man needs more then redemption from temporal death or the death of the body. He must also be redeemed from his fallen spiritual condition which has arisen as the result of his own sins..."Man cannot be redeemed from this spiritual death by an act of Christ alone.." The Restored Church, Pgs. 562,563"Without the atonement, the gospel, the priesthood, and the sealing power, there would be no salvation. ..It it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation, There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Pgs. 669-671)

Ammon, why do you want us to regard you as a saved Christian when the LDS don't believe we are saved?

The LDS don't believe that any are "saved" until their calling an election is made sure through a lifetime of good works. Under the LDS believe, I AM NOT YET SAVED. Thus, how can I say you are saved under our beliefs? It is impossible. But, under YOUR beliefs, I can be saved. And is that not Christlike?

 

[Rescued One]

The LDS don't believe that any are "saved" until their calling an election is made sure through a lifetime of good works. Under the LDS believe, I AM NOT YET SAVED. Thus, how can I say you are saved under our beliefs? It is impossible. But, under YOUR beliefs, I can be saved. And is that not Christlike?

You can be saved if that's what you truly desire deep down in your heart. But I see you trying to defend Mormonism instead of acknowledging that God has shown the way to eternal life in the Bible. You still think you are more spiritual because you go to the temple.

 

[AMMON]

You can be saved if that's what you truly desire deep down in your heart. But I see you trying to defend Mormonism instead of acknowledging that God has shown the way to eternal life in the Bible. You still think you are more spiritual because you go to the temple.

Even if I do, which I do not (I am FAR from perfect), is that reason for you to condem me? Only Christ can condem. Christians turn the other cheek.

 

[Rescued One]

Even if I do, which I do not (I am FAR from perfect), is that reason for you to condem me? Only Christ can condem. Christians turn the other cheek.

I never condemned anyone. I'm surprised you think I have power to send you to hell!

 

[AMMON]

I never condemned anyone. I'm surprised you think I have power to send you to hell!

You assume my condemnation, not create it.

 

[Serapha]

John the Baptist said the following:

Matthew 3:7-12

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
And Jesus Himself said the following:

Matthew 12:25-37

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad. 31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. 33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart F57 brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

I think I would do what He did (and don't forget the cleansing of the temple)

Hi there!




Christ died for them.... when will you?


~serapha~

 

[Rescued One]

So, it is your dislike of our alleged belief that only we are saved that leads you tell us that we are not saved? Kind of like an eye for an eye?

You are the person complaining here. I'm merely pointing out that you do not believe we are saved, yet you keep complaining that we don't think you are.

 

[rnmomof7]

The LDS don't believe that any are "saved" until their calling an election is made sure through a lifetime of good works. Under the LDS believe, I AM NOT YET SAVED. Thus, how can I say you are saved under our beliefs? It is impossible. But, under YOUR beliefs, I can be saved. And is that not Christlike?

Wrong saviour

 

[AMMON]

You are the person complaining here. I'm merely pointing out that you do not believe we are saved, yet you keep complaining that we don't think you are.

Again, under our beliefs, even WE are not yet saved. We must be faithful until the end to be worthy of that honor. Under YOUR beliefs, that is not the case. Thus, I can be saved under your beliefs right now. But even I, as a member, cannot be saved under mine right now. We do, however, consider you to be Christians, and we ask only that you consider us as the same. That is all.

 

[Rescued One]

Again, under our beliefs, even WE are not yet saved. We must be faithful until the end to be worthy of that honor. Under YOUR beliefs, that is not the case. Thus, I can be saved under your beliefs right now. But even I, as a member, cannot be saved under mine right now. We do, however, consider you to be Christians, and we ask only that you consider us as the same. That is all.

I'll be glad to consider you a Christian when you lay down your pride and become one.

Jesus is waiting with open arms.

 

[calgal]

Hi there!




Christ died for them.... when will you?


~serapha~

Thanks for the compliment but I am NOT aspiring to be Jesus. Would I die for Him? Certainly. I would much prefer to live for Him though. Now if I was going to be rather picky, I would almost say that was either: an invitation to off myself OR an attack? Being an adult, I prefer to take it as a misinterpretation and will not hit "abuse"

 

[Serapha]

Calgal,


You can hit that abuse button any time, but if it backfires, don't blame me. You directed questions pointedly to me.... and now you "scream" abuse.



~serapha~

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I'll be glad to consider you a Christian when you lay down your pride and become one.

Jesus is waiting with open arms.

Isn't that a fabulous thought for everyone who is not a Christian? Wittnessing someone come to Christ is like watching a new little baby come into the world. It is a time of joy and celebration and my very favorite thing in the entire world. About a year ago a friend of mine accepted Christ and I was blessed to be there when she did so. It was one of the most wonderful experiences I have ever had. She came to Christ just as she was, deep in sin and worshiping a false god. Jesus accepted her with open arms and she has been walking with God every since. She, just like me is not the same person she used to be. Jesus has changed her so much this last year that I feel like I have a totally new friend. It has been an incredible gift of love from God for me to be around to see the powerful changes he has made in my sweet friends life. Wow, God is so very faithful and true!

Whenever I hear of someone coming to Jesus or see someone at church take an alter call and accept the Lord, there is a song that pops into my mind, a song that Rebecca St. James sings....

Whatever the cost
From this day on
Until forever
I will take the narrow road
For I am not alone
I do not walk this road alone

Yes, I believe in God
This I will say to you
Mean it death or mean it life
Ohh, I believe in God
For I have found the way
And I am not ashamed
I have found the way

So through the fire
I'll be refined
And if that fire
Were to take this life
I'd be with him forever
I will be with him forever

You said,
'If any man comes after Me
he must deny himself, take his cross
and follow after Me.'
So here I come after You
Knowing when my life I lose
You give yours in return
Give your new life in return

chorus

 

[AMMON]

Isn't that a fabulous thought for everyone who is not a Christian? Wittnessing someone come to Christ is like watching a new little baby come into the world. It is a time of joy and celebration and my very favorite thing in the entire world.

I agree, totally, I had same feeling on my mission when people accepted the Savior and were baptized. It is great.

 

[gort]

Ammon quote:
And so that gives you reason to strike back and condem me?

Ammon, can't see how you got the "condemn me" out of "I condemn no one."

I'm not asking you to accept me as a mormon. I truly wish that all were in agreement. However,this is a 2 way street. I condemn no one. Please read John 3:17. However, your BOM does condemn me and others.

John 3:17
For God sent His SOn not into the world, to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

How do I condemn someone? When I should be condemned myself?

And as far as being saved, we are saved. God lets us know through an inclined heart, and His Son tells us to "never doubt".


<><