Is it Biblical to separate the moral law from the other parts of the Law?

[Der Alte]

How is it specious? What does anything Jesus said have to do with this? You said:

"Where are the dietary laws said to be everlasting? If Jesus is God, as I believe He is, then God can abrogate anything He chooses."​

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I'm not sure what your objection is here. Just to clarify. I am not aware of any scripture which states that the dietary laws are everlasting. Even if there is such a scripture Jesus is God and can abrogate anything He chooses. I quoted the scripture which does abrogate the dietary laws. Peter's vision, Act 10, and Paul's writings support that.

Then even those who believe in everlasting punishment can hope for universal salvation, just like the Catholic church does. Because, according to you, God can abrogate anything He chooses. That includes everlasting punishment.

People can hope for anything they want that does not mean that it is scriptural or that it will happen. Where did Jesus teach that everyone would be saved, no matter what or that sinners would be annihilated?

 

[ToBeLoved]

My response is not to be contentious; just wanted to point out something to consider. II Timothy 3:15-17 doesn’t throw anything out. You are right that Jesus brought about an end to the Law, as a way of life for believers, but the Law does help us recognize our sins (Galatians 3:19-21) and is instruction in righteousness (Psalm 19:7-9).

So then what is your position?

Seems like you are skating in the middle of the road.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Is it Biblical to separate the moral law from the other parts of the Law (like ceremonial laws, etc.)?

And discuss.


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The Law cannot be separated out because God did not separate it out as far as guilt.

If you transgress on any part o the Law, you are guilty of transgressing in all of the Law.


Plus the law is the seal of the Old Covenant. The entire law.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Law cannot be separated out because God did not separate it out as far as guilt.

I think you misunderstand. When I say separate, I mean categorize and not cut into two pieces like a knife cutting a steak in half or something. I am talking about classifying God's commands by truth expressed within them. For example: Is the command that says, "Do not murder" sound like a moral command or a ceremonial command? Yes, all of God's laws are moral, but some commands appear to be focused on something specific, too. For example: Baptism is primarily a ceremonial command or law because it is a ceremony or ritual that we believers observe.

If you transgress on any part o the Law, you are guilty of transgressing in all of the Law.

Context. James was talking about the Royal Law of loving your neighbor in James 2:10. Please see James 2:8. Also, John says there is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death in 1 John 5:16-17. There is also unforgiveable sins, as well (Like speaking bad words against the Holy Spirit). Surely if somebody steals, they are not also committing the unforgivable sin, too.

Plus the law is the seal of the Old Covenant. The entire law.

No. The Old Law is obsolete as a whole or package deal.
This is evident for many reasons. There are no more laws on animal sacrifices or the priesthood.
There are no more laws preventing anyone from eating unclean animals.
We are not to render an eye for an eye but we are to turn the other cheek now.
There are no capital punishment laws for a body of believers to enforce anymore.
There is no Saturday Sabbath that is still in effect anymore.
Nobody is stoned anymore for not keeping the Sabbath.
Circumcision is no longer a requirement.
There is no more 10% tithe.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I would classify the 1st Command given to Adam as primarily a "Moral Law" with it being a "Ceremonial Law" as a secondary (or lesser) component.

God desired to protect Adam & Eve from the harms of many kinds of sins by telling them not to partake of something that would lead them to have the knowledge of good and evil. So this is primarily a moral command. God was seeking for their best moral good by this command.

The secondary aspect of this command was ceremonial because it was a food preventative type law. It is a picture or symbol of something else. A type. The two trees in the Garden represented certain things spiritually.

At the heart, all of God's laws are moral because disobedience to God's laws is wrong. But there is going to also be a focus or priority for certain of God's commands, too. Some commands like baptism are primarily ritual or ceremony based. They do not deal with the heart of pure morality like say, "Do not murder" etc.


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[ToBeLoved]

I think you misunderstand. When I say separate, I mean categorize and not cut into two pieces like a knife cutting a steak in half or something. I am talking about classifying God's commands by truth expressed within them. For example: Is the command that says, "Do not murder" sound like a moral command or a ceremonial command? Yes, all of God's laws are moral, but some commands appear to be focused on something specific, too. For example: Baptism is primarily a ceremonial command or law because it is a ceremony or ritual that we believers observe.

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There is no reason to separate out the Law. The Law should not be separated, but we are not under the Law, we are under grace.

Why do you feel the need to categorize further what God has put together?

I also disagree that baptism is ceremonial, baptism is commanded. We do not observe, we are commanded to publicly declare our faith and be baptised.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Some commands like baptism are primarily ritual or ceremony based. They do not deal with the heart of pure morality like say, "Do not murder" etc.
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Are you seriously calling baptism ceremony and ritual?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I would classify the 1st Command given to Adam as primarily a "Moral Law" with it being a "Ceremonial Law" as a secondary (or lesser) component.

God desired to protect Adam & Eve from the harms of many kinds of sins by telling them not to partake of something that would lead them to have the knowledge of good and evil. So this is primarily a moral command. God was seeking for their best moral good by this command.

The secondary aspect of this command was ceremonial because it was a food preventative type law. It is a picture or symbol of something else. A type. The two trees in the Garden represented certain things spiritually.

At the heart, all of God's laws are moral because disobedience to God's laws is wrong. But there is going to also be a focus or priority for certain of God's commands, too. Some commands like baptism are primarily ritual or ceremony based. They do not deal with the heart of pure morality like say, "Do not murder" etc.


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[inquiring mind]

So then what is your position?

Seems like you are skating in the middle of the road.

My response was not to the OP Question. It was to the following statement in the thread:

ByTheSpirit said: ↑

Well the entire law of Moses has been filled and replaced with the blood of Jesus. So the entire law can be thrown out, because the believer is obligated only to the Law of the Spirit.


The OP Question was: “Is it Biblical to separate the moral law from the other parts of the Law (like ceremonial laws, etc.)?

And discuss.”

I didn’t respond to it.

Which one are you referring to?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you seriously calling baptism ceremony and ritual?

So it is not a ceremony? What moral good purpose does it serve to go into water? It is a public declaration of one's faith of what Christ has done on the inside of a person. It is an outward picture or symbol. It is spiritual, too. But it is not like say loving your neighbor or helping the poor. They are totally different things. To not recognize the difference between these two things is just plain silly.

Have you fallen off the cucumber truck? And hit your head? I can call 911 and get an ambulance to your house if it is an emergency. Just start a conversation and send me your address and I will get the call out.

I can say the same for you. But what does tha prove but the fact that one is desiring to be slanderous.


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[Bible Highlighter]

You need to stop divying up God's commands like this. If God hasn't done it in His Word, you do not need to. This is very bad theology. Ceremonial laws mean something specific to the Hebrews as did the moral law, but they had 603 laws to deal with.

Sorry. Recognizing truth is not bad theology.


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[ToBeLoved]

So it is not a ceremony? What moral good purpose does it serve to go into water? It is a public declaration of one's faith of what Christ has done on the inside of a person. It is an outward picture or symbol. It is spiritual, too. But it is not like say loving your neighbor or helping the poor. They are totally different things. To not recognize the difference between these two things is just plain silly.

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By that same token you would then believe that Communion or the Lord's Supper is ritual and ceremony also. A little nippy of the wine with a little sourdough bread for the hungry Sunday morning church goers.

Jesus went so far to say that some are sick because of the vain way they celebrate the Lord's Supper, so was Christ wrong about this one too or maybe saying that a little drink, drink is not so bad on the day of rest?

Why don't you give all your scripture references that show it is ceremonial and ritual and that baptism serves no other purpose but a water sprinkle?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Sorry. Recognizing truth is not bad theology.


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[ToBeLoved]

I can say the same for you. But what does tha prove but the fact that one is desiring to be slanderous.
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[ToBeLoved]

What moral good purpose does it serve to go into water? It is a public declaration of one's faith of what Christ has done on the inside of a person. It is an outward picture or symbol. But it is not like say loving your neighbor or helping the poor. They are totally different things. To not recognize the difference between these two things is just plain silly.
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Who said that Christ commanding us to be baptised is the same as Christ telling us to love our neighbor?

You are putting words in my mouth that I did not say, again. Try to stop doing that.

 

[ClementofA]

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I'm not sure what your objection is here. Just to clarify. I am not aware of any scripture which states that the dietary laws are everlasting. Even if there is such a scripture Jesus is God and can abrogate anything He chooses. I quoted the scripture which does abrogate the dietary laws. Peter's vision, Act 10, and Paul's writings support that.

People can hope for anything they want that does not mean that it is scriptural or that it will happen. Where did Jesus teach that everyone would be saved, no matter what or that sinners would be annihilated?

If, as you say, Jesus can abrogate (annul) anything He chooses, then He can annul or cancel the threat or sentence of everlasting punishment. Assuming what you've said is Scriptural, then you have Scriptural backing for a hope that all will be saved.

Then even those who believe in everlasting punishment can hope for universal salvation, just like the Catholic church does. Because, according to you, God can abrogate anything He chooses. That includes everlasting punishment.

So do you have hope that all will be saved? If not, why not?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Context. James was talking about the Royal Law of loving your neighbor in James 2:10. Please see James 2:8.

James is still referring back to the Old Testament. Showing the Hebrews how the Old Testament ties in with the New Testament and that Jesus command is essentially the same.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So it is not a ceremony? What moral good purpose does it serve to go into water? It is a public declaration of one's faith of what Christ has done on the inside of a person. It is an outward picture or symbol. It is spiritual, too. But it is not like say loving your neighbor or helping the poor. They are totally different things. To not recognize the difference between these two things is just plain silly.
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Why do you think John the Baptist who prepared the way for Christ baptised for repentance? You think that is a coincidink?

Jesus commands His apostles to baptise each new believer in water. There is more too it than just a symbol.

God has an important reason.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Dear ToBeLoved:

I would like "to be loved", too.
By what you say, you really are not making me feel loved.
You are misunderstanding what I am saying and accusing me of things that are not true and that are just plain silly. You are also not saying anything that makes any logical sense, too. I looked at your one post and I just stopped. I am not interested in reading anymore of your posts if you are looking to be an accuser of the brethren and if you are not looking to have any rational conversation with Scripture.

Believe whatever you want to believe.
Just leave me out of your conversations please.

Moving on now.
Please have a good day.
And may God bless you.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Anyways, getting back on topic, I am really excited to receive my book tomorrow that talks about how there is Biblical support for the three fold structure of God's Laws. I will let folks know about my findings within the book that are noteworthy.



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