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Is It A Sin to touch?

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.Mikha'el.

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gtsecc said:

1 Thessalonians 4

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;"

This passage has usually been interpretated as yet anothercondemnation of fornication. But, I think it is also a prohibition against masturbation, because I do not see how that practise can be considered sanctified and honourable.
 
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Bill777

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Tangnefedd said:
I thought all men masturbated because it gave them pleasure, why not? Women enjoy masturbation too! I bet Jesus masturbated whilst on earth, he was human after all, and no doubt had sexual feelings!

I already answered this post, but let me add one more thing to my last post. Jesus fulfilled the Law so that we would be saved because it was impossible for man to fulfill the Law. So Christ obeyed perfectly all of God's commands so that his obedience would cover our disobedience. So Christ could not have been a masturbator as you imply.
 
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Greyshade89

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Ive dealt strongly with masturbation. One definition of the word touching yourself is 'self abuse'. The whole purpose of God creating sex is to be intimate with the one you love. Its a bit selfish to touch. I personally dont want a man who thinks masturbation is okay. It makes my stomach turn.
 
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Greyshade89

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quot-top-left.gif
Quote
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Originally Posted by: Tangnefedd
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I thought all men masturbated because it gave them pleasure, why not? Women enjoy masturbation too! I bet Jesus masturbated whilst on earth, he was human after all, and no doubt had sexual feelings!
Thats just silly! Jesus came to earth and became flesh. However did not act in it. Jesus was tempted all the time. Doesnt mean He acted out in the flesh. No doubt He was tempted with sexual feelings. Thats just awful to say our Lord and Savior would do something as selfish as masturbation.
 
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Tangnefedd

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Why is it awful to say Jesus masturbated? Only some fundies think masturbation is a sin, the rest of us don't! I think some Christians try to create Jesus in their narrow minded image! Jesus may have been married, he may have been gay, who cares? All that matters is what sort of person he was. A human Jesus with the same sort of faults and failing as the rest of us is much easier to relate to than a perfect person. Even reading the gospel accounts that probably talk him up, he obviously had a temper, the poor old fig tree was condemned for not producing fruit out of season! Tree rage, maybe?:D
 
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HeyJupiter

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Kelly said:
It's a tired old argument that comes down to lust. Lust is a sin. If you're masterbating, you're probably lusting too. I've heard people say that they touch w/o lusting...now they've just brought lying into the picture too.

i seriously dont think lust really comes ino it nessecarily,
 
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SH89

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Tangnefedd said:
Why is it awful to say Jesus masturbated? Only some fundies think masturbation is a sin, the rest of us don't! I think some Christians try to create Jesus in their narrow minded image! Jesus may have been married, he may have been gay, who cares? All that matters is what sort of person he was. A human Jesus with the same sort of faults and failing as the rest of us is much easier to relate to than a perfect person. Even reading the gospel accounts that probably talk him up, he obviously had a temper, the poor old fig tree was condemned for not producing fruit out of season! Tree rage, maybe?:D

If Jesus sinned, he would of have to offer sacrifices for his own sins, and then for the us. The levitical priests had sins, so they had to offer a bull first for their own sins.
However, Jesus never sinned, as the bible declares.
 
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holo

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No, He didn't sin, but a lot of people would have definately called it sin that He turned water into wine, hadn't the bible said that He did in fact do that, for example.

Figuring out what's best for you personally isn't supposed to be some kind of biblical riddle. It's not like God's will is so mysterious as for us to have to dig through the entire bible to find it out. I hope one day christians will be know for applying what the rest of the world knows as "common sense," and also that they'll start living according to the Spirit and not the letter in one form or another.
 
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IWTALCT

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ok i only read the 1st two posts it would take forever to read the rest so ill just say this those posts said that its is the thought of another person not the uhhhhh you know.well i just going to say this that may disgust you u dont need to think about (a) girl(s) or watch movies or look at pics those just speed it up if you dont think or look itll take more time but it will work
 
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unstableleb

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I can honestly say that I think and feel that touching yourself is a sin. As much as we all want it not to be a sin... it is. I know how hard it cause especially at my age u can try and try but some people cant work with it... Man have i begged for mercy but that man up stairs aint given way... I dont know what to do... I rekon a good propostion of teh population does do it and i am ashamed to admit i do it but owell i live another day... I just hope im not gona be doing to much time in pergatry for it... Hormonz r just doing der job... but the path to good is narrow and many people are gona get lost on the way... dont expect life to be that easy... :sigh:
 
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Bill777

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unstableleb said:
I can honestly say that I think and feel that touching yourself is a sin. As much as we all want it not to be a sin... it is. I know how hard it cause especially at my age u can try and try but some people cant work with it... Man have i begged for mercy but that man up stairs aint given way... I dont know what to do... I rekon a good propostion of teh population does do it and i am ashamed to admit i do it but owell i live another day... I just hope im not gona be doing to much time in pergatry for it... Hormonz r just doing der job... but the path to good is narrow and many people are gona get lost on the way... dont expect life to be that easy... :sigh:

If you confess your sins he is faithful and forgives you as First John says. So you can have peace of mind that you won't be doing time in purgatory as long as you confess your sin, and you confess that you are weak to overcome this sin by your own strength. God knows that you sin (touch) because of your weakness and he will forgive you.

Now, if you get sanctified God will empower your will to conquer the sin. You can only get sanctified by faith as scripture says and John Wesley and the Holiness Churches teach. You can't overcome the sin of masturbation by yourself, only by accepting God's free grace. Romans chapter 8 says that we've been given the spirit of adoption, not the spirit of bondage, believe that, trust that Jesus has given you that spirit, accept the free gift, and pray with faith (confidence and trust) that you are receiving the spirit of adoption, that you are dead to to the flesh and dead to sin and alive in Christ's resurrection. Only by accepting this free gift from God can you be sanctified, and you do it by faith, you don't wait until you stop masturbating, you just trust God. The more you try to fight the sin by yourself the more you will fail, God will teach you that the works of man can't please him, he'll teach you how incapable you are of overcoming the sin by your own efforts, he'll show you that you can only overcome the sin by faith.

Now before you can get sanctified you need to be justified. You have to be sure that you are going to heaven. You may not be justified right now because you are saying you'll have to go Purgatory. That is an invention of the catholic church, purgatory is not biblical. So, you have to get right with God first, you need to have assurance of salvation, a justifying faith before you can receive the sanctifying faith. You need to trust Christ that he died for your sins, that his death is sufficient, that you are going to heaven because of Christ's righteousness. Until you trust Christ for your salvation instead of your own efforts you can't get saved (justified) and God won't sanctify. Maybe you are already justified, then all you have to do is accept by faith now the gift of sanctification. Justification makes you right before God and gets you to heaven on Christ's merit alone without any works, sanctification gives you dominion over sin on earth.

I am both justified and sanctified and I have experienced both works of grace. There's both a justifying faith and a sanctifying faith. I talk to you based on my personal experience, and what I teach is pretty similar to what Wesley taught. Maybe the only difference is that Wesley taught purity of heart after sanctification, I would go further and add that purity of heart means freedom of the will, power to overcome sin. The unsanctified christian has some sins that he/she is aware of, but can't overcome because of the weakness of the flesh. But don't sweat it because we were all unsanctified at one time (plus it is justification and not sanctification that gets you to heaven), even the apostle Paul was unsanctified when he speaks in Romans 7 and says "oh wretched man that I am" or in Second Corinthians when he talks about the thorn in the flesh from Satan that God refused to remove to humble the apostle. I'm sure God removed that thorn in the flesh later on and Paul was sanctified. God works in strange ways, he will not take Satan away sometimes, he will let Satan harass you although never reign in you, and then God moves in and binds Satan up and sanctifies you. Not every Christian is sanctified on earth, some are sanctified either close to death (like Wesley said) or right after death (as Luther said), but I do believe that sanctification by faith should be preached to everybody because some Christians have experienced it. Wesley said, it's a free gift from God for everybody to take, go grab it, don't wait for death, it's available right now. I have experienced it and that's why I preach it, because it makes you free from sin's dominion on earth. But this gift is only available to those that are saved (justified), if you are not saved, if you don't trust that Christ died for your sins, that his death and resurriection alone gets you to heaven as long as you try your best (and even if your will is weak), then you have a problem. You will have to get saved first before you even think about being sanctified. At least that's the way God worked with me, maybe he works in a different way with others but I know only the way the Lord showed me.

Now one thing though is that when you trust Christ for the forgiveness of your sins (justification) you will have to trust him at the same time that he has empowered you to overcome sin. You will receive an assurance from God at that time, the holy spirit will witness to you, you will receive the assurance of salvation. Now, you will realize after a few weeks or months afterwards realize that maybe you don't have total dominion over sin although your will have been strengthened after trusting Christ. You should still have that assurance that you go to heaven because of Christ's work. It is at that time when you can accept God's second gift of sanctification. It works like this with most saints, although it is possible to be both justified and sanctified in the first work of grace it rarely happens as studies among believers conducted by John Wesley proved. Still it is at justification when you are initially annointed with power from above, you are baptized with the holy spirit, you receive the assurance of salvation, the testimony of the spirit that lives in you. Prior to justification you are just baptized into repentance with water.
 
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Bill777

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Bill777 said:
If you confess your sins he is faithful and forgives you as First John says. So you can have peace of mind that you won't be doing time in purgatory as long as you confess your sin, and you confess that you are weak to overcome this sin by your own strength. God knows that you sin (touch) because of your weakness and he will forgive you.

Now, if you get sanctified God will empower your will to conquer the sin. You can only get sanctified by faith as scripture says and John Wesley and the Holiness Churches teach. You can't overcome the sin of masturbation by yourself, only by accepting God's free grace. Romans chapter 8 says that we've been given the spirit of adoption, not the spirit of bondage, believe that, trust that Jesus has given you that spirit, accept the free gift, and pray with faith (confidence and trust) that you are receiving the spirit of adoption, that you are dead to to the flesh and dead to sin and alive in Christ's resurrection. Only by accepting this free gift from God can you be sanctified, and you do it by faith, you don't wait until you stop masturbating, you just trust God. The more you try to fight the sin by yourself the more you will fail, God will teach you that the works of man can't please him, he'll teach you how incapable you are of overcoming the sin by your own efforts, he'll show you that you can only overcome the sin by faith.

Now before you can get sanctified you need to be justified. You have to be sure that you are going to heaven. You may not be justified right now because you are saying you'll have to go Purgatory. That is an invention of the catholic church, purgatory is not biblical. So, you have to get right with God first, you need to have assurance of salvation, a justifying faith before you can receive the sanctifying faith. You need to trust Christ that he died for your sins, that his death is sufficient, that you are going to heaven because of Christ's righteousness. Until you trust Christ for your salvation instead of your own efforts you can't get saved (justified) and God won't sanctify. Maybe you are already justified, then all you have to do is accept by faith now the gift of sanctification. Justification makes you right before God and gets you to heaven on Christ's merit alone without any works, sanctification gives you dominion over sin on earth.

I am both justified and sanctified and I have experienced both works of grace. There's both a justifying faith and a sanctifying faith. I talk to you based on my personal experience, and what I teach is pretty similar to what Wesley taught. Maybe the only difference is that Wesley taught purity of heart after sanctification, I would go further and add that purity of heart means freedom of the will, power to overcome sin. The unsanctified christian has some sins that he/she is aware of, but can't overcome because of the weakness of the flesh. But don't sweat it because we were all unsanctified at one time (plus it is justification and not sanctification that gets you to heaven), even the apostle Paul was unsanctified when he speaks in Romans 7 and says "oh wretched man that I am" or in Second Corinthians when he talks about the thorn in the flesh from Satan that God refused to remove to humble the apostle. I'm sure God removed that thorn in the flesh later on and Paul was sanctified. God works in strange ways, he will not take Satan away sometimes, he will let Satan harass you although never reign in you, and then God moves in and binds Satan up and sanctifies you. Not every Christian is sanctified on earth, some are sanctified either close to death (like Wesley said) or right after death (as Luther said), but I do believe that sanctification by faith should be preached to everybody because some Christians have experienced it. Wesley said, it's a free gift from God for everybody to take, go grab it, don't wait for death, it's available right now. I have experienced it and that's why I preach it, because it makes you free from sin's dominion on earth. But this gift is only available to those that are saved (justified), if you are not saved, if you don't trust that Christ died for your sins, that his death and resurriection alone gets you to heaven as long as you try your best (and even if your will is weak), then you have a problem. You will have to get saved first before you even think about being sanctified. At least that's the way God worked with me, maybe he works in a different way with others but I know only the way the Lord showed me.

Now one thing though is that when you trust Christ for the forgiveness of your sins (justification) you will have to trust him at the same time that he has empowered you to overcome sin. You will receive an assurance from God at that time, the holy spirit will witness to you, you will receive the assurance of salvation. Now, you will realize after a few weeks or months afterwards realize that maybe you don't have total dominion over sin although your will have been strengthened after trusting Christ. You should still have that assurance that you go to heaven because of Christ's work. It is at that time when you can accept God's second gift of sanctification. It works like this with most saints, although it is possible to be both justified and sanctified in the first work of grace it rarely happens as studies among believers conducted by John Wesley proved. Still it is at justification when you are initially annointed with power from above, you are baptized with the holy spirit, you receive the assurance of salvation, the testimony of the spirit that lives in you. Prior to justification you are just baptized into repentance with water.

And further to my post above there is another way to overcome masturbation if you are single. If you have a girlfriend you like, propose to her and get married! This is the apostle Paul's and Luther's advice against lust, but this remedy only works if you have a girlfriend or fiancee. The apostle Paul recommended marriage to those that were unlike him and did not have the gift of celibacy.
 
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lismore

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holo said:
No, He didn't sin, but a lot of people would have definately called it sin that He turned water into wine, hadn't the bible said that He did in fact do that, for example.

Figuring out what's best for you personally isn't supposed to be some kind of biblical riddle. It's not like God's will is so mysterious as for us to have to dig through the entire bible to find it out. I hope one day christians will be know for applying what the rest of the world knows as "common sense," and also that they'll start living according to the Spirit and not the letter in one form or another.

Yes. Jesus turned water into wine for a drunken party and yet was without sin.

People beat themselves down for having hormones etc and put it down to 'lust'. We beat one another down even though we live through our own situation, not anyone elses.

We get a thrill talking about God's plan for this that and the other, sometimes I wonder if even God knows he's got such a plan. People make an idol out of marriage- the man who built God's temple made a mockery of marriage and one book in the bible describes a sexual relationship between two unmarried lovers in graphic detail.

Dont we get the clue that something larger than following an implacable moral code is at work here? A man was stoned for picking up sticks on the sabbath, Jesus walked 50 miles and healed people on the sabbath.

Those of us who have it all planned out- lust is only acceptable within marriage- I would say the opposite is true. In marriage it gets stricter because they have the obligation to procreate. If someone mastubates or a married couple have seuxal acts with contraceptives the mastubation is less of a sin because the married couple have committed the sin of Onan. Marriage is about procreration whereas the mastubation comes under the levitical laws. You have to go outside the camp until dark.

If you think something is sinful good for you. Dont do it. Go sin no more:)

If you think someone else is sinning- dont worry- the Holy SPirit will minister to that person.

:wave:
 
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