Is it a sin to remain poor?

[Rainbow.]

photini, great post.

I happen to know for fact that there are poor people that have access to computers and some even participate in CF. What is really sad is that some of these people do read and hear these things sometimes on a daily basis but that the same people who are judging the poor fail to open their own eyes to the sins you might be commiting by having money and not helping the poor.

Doesn't God say in Matt. 7:1-6 to avoid this type of judgement. Please don't think I am saying that this discussion is judgemental or that any individual in this thread is judging, I'm NOT! My point is that it is too easy to say "you are sinning because you don't have the same financial blessings that I do". My family and I are part of the poverty group you speak of and have been burdened by this poverty for many years now. However, I will also tell you that the blessings that God has placed on our lives and family far outweigh all the riches this world could offer. Sometimes I fear what will happen when God delivers us from poverty, I fear that I might fall into the catagory of those who view money as God's ultimate gift. Daily I pray that God never lets me forget what poverty is and what He would have us do for the impoverished. So many scriptures speak of the wealthy helping and aiding the poor. How many of us really do help?, not just send a can of food to a food bank but really find out what the needs are and meet those needs in the holy and powerful name of Jesus.

Let me give you an example from our own lives. This last year has been an emotional year for us because we have been struggling with poverty and have run out of ways to try to get out. (to poke a whole in many peoples ideas, I have a BS in Ed. My husband has a BS in Ed. an M Div and computer training, we each work an average of 12-14 hour days, 365 days a year. holiday's we drop back to 6-8 hour days so that we can spend time enjoying our children, still we live in poverty) We had an oppertunity to purchase a property that included a business. The business would have been enough to take us out of poverty with some left over. What we needed was help with down payment. With every penny that doesn't pay for housing or heat, spent on food, we have nothing saved for downpayment. We looked eveywhere for help. No one would help us get out of poverty, they were content to sit back (many of them with more than enough) and say I'm sorry, if you would just work harder or spend less, or believe more.... (we take care of ourselves and 5 children on $13000 per year) OUr faith overcame the indifference in the people whom God has given much and we saw miracles happen that lead us to believe that we would be delivered. Now, here comes another challenge to our ideas of poverty. God preformed miracles anyway and we were prepared to move accross the country to a new life. At the last minute, God said no. 'I demenstarted my power with or without the help of the one's I have given much. Now, will you trust me with the rest?' If anyone is interested, I will tell you more of the story, though the story is still being played out in our lives, the point is, we are judged almost daily for our poverty and yet when God's people are given an oppertuntiy to help, they contend themselves with a can of vegetables. I think the question we all must ask, whether rich, poor or inbetween is:
What would God have me do with the gift He has given me?! If God has given you poverty (even for a season) what does He want you to do with that poverty that would glorify Him, If He has given you riches, what would He have you do with them that would glorify the Lord of Lord's and King or King's.

You have said some amazing things here, and i truly wish with all my heart that God helps you with your struggles soon. You show a great deal of faith in God and im sure this will be rewarded in time.
Im a single mum and i do struggle at times myself, but i also see the wonderful blessings which God has given me, and i try and remember in hard times, that the best things in life are free.
I do give to the needy when i can, but there are many people out there who could give more than they do, but I shall let God be the judge of them and not me!
I also think rich countries could do more to help the poorer countries than we do, but that's a whole other thread!
It goes to show, that people like you do try to do everything in your power to change your situation, but are not helped at the times most needed, yet your faith allows you to believe when the time is right, God will bless you and help you overcome your poverty.
God bless all those in poverty and trust in God that through faith and prayer we will all be helped. x

 

[Rainbow.]

God's Word says I will not lack. I never have. I'm 22. Married and have one son. I'm putting both myself and my wife through college(no financial aid). I'm finishing up my 4th year in Theology and my wife is going for medical school. We have NEVER lacked once. We have never looked for ANYONE to help us and leave us in the dust. Why? Because we put it on God and God alone. If God wishes to bless us more (which he does every single month) he will send someone to us. I'm sorry for your position right now, but God does not lie. If there is something going wrong in our lives, its not because of God, its because of us.

Well i hope God continues to bless you and your family, but you never know what's around the corner and sometimes people will get in a situation they are unable to control through no fault of their own.I think it's unfair to say people are in a bad situation through something they have done theirselves. For instance, i am a single parent because i choose to bring my child up in a safe and Christian environment, yet if i had continued to live in sin and with a man who had no belief or love for God,finacially i would have been a lot better off.So sometimes in our lives, it is better to be without and live a good life, than to have and live in sin.

 

[TheScottsMen]

I never said if you are poor you are sinning. That's foolish. What I did say is that God will supply ALL our needs if we ask him. The Word of God does not lie.

##but you never know what's around the corner and sometimes people will get in a situation they are unable to control through no fault of their own##

That's the difference. It doesn't matter what comes up around the corner. Is anything to big for God to handle when you put ALL your problems on him? You know, the scriptures do not become real until we start follow them. The Word of God can not only be in your head, but also in your heart. You have to live it, not mental assent it. Example:

Psalm 37:23-35 "When a person's steps follow the Lord, God is pleased with his ways. If he stumbles, he will not fall, because the Lord holds his hand."

Many people read over that scripture and says, "Yes, that's right, its good" but then do not really believe it and 2 mins later start complaining how hard their life is, and how nobody helps. God is there to help. If we have God, who else do we need?

Pslam 34:10 "Even Lions may get weak and hungry, but those who look to the Lord will have every good thing"

Key word here. "EVERY", good thing. We shall not want because God has given us everything.

Pslam 23:1 "The Lord is my shepherd, I have everything I need."

Preach it brother!

Ecc 2:26 For to the man that pleaseth him God giveth wisdom, and knowledge, and joy; but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that pleaseth God. This also is vanity and a striving after wind.

As for what's around the corner. Who's in the driver seat of your life? Though I'm living, the driver of my life is God. I have no worries about what's going to happen tomm or the next day or even next year. Why should I? Should I consider the Bible a lie? Is Gods Word something that should be read, and agreed with, but then to say to one self, its doesn't apply to me?

1Pe 5:7 casting all your anxiety upon him, because he careth for you.

Was peter lying? Was God? Are we to read this and say "Yeah, that's right, but not for me"?

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me.

And Jesus? Will he not supply our needs?

Phi 4:6 In nothing be anxious; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

We are not to worry about ANYTHING. But in everything be in prayer. We must not forget how that scripture ends, "let your request be made known to God". The bible tells us to come BOLDLY to God, we can come BODLLY to the throne of God because we know he HEARS US, and when Christ lives in us and we live in him, all our prayers will be answered.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Does God lie?

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful.

Christ left us to return to Heaven and left us with peace. He gave it to us. Not as money gives us peace, or a good bed, but only as Christ can give us peace. Because he allows us to give all our problems to him, not some, or a few, but all of them. So that our hearts may not be troubled, neither fearful.

Thank you Jesus.

 

[Rainbow.]

I never said if you are poor you are sinning. That's foolish. What I did say is that God will supply ALL our needs if we ask him. The Word of God does not lie.

##but you never know what's around the corner and sometimes people will get in a situation they are unable to control through no fault of their own##

That's the difference. It doesn't matter what comes up around the corner. Is anything to big for God to handle when you put ALL your problems on him? You know, the scriptures do not become real until we start follow them. The Word of God can not only be in your head, but also in your heart. You have to live it, not mental assent it. Example:

Psalm 37:23-35 "When a person's steps follow the Lord, God is pleased with his ways. If he stumbles, he will not fall, because the Lord holds his hand."

Many people read over that scripture and says, "Yes, that's right, its good" but then do not really believe it and 2 mins later start complaining how hard their life is, and how nobody helps. God is there to help. If we have God, who else do we need?

Pslam 34:10 "Even Lions may get weak and hungry, but those who look to the Lord will have every good thing"

Key word here. "EVERY", good thing. We shall not want because God has given us everything.

Pslam 23:1 "The Lord is my shepherd, I have everything I need."

Preach it brother!

Ecc 2:26 For to the man that pleaseth him God giveth wisdom, and knowledge, and joy; but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that pleaseth God. This also is vanity and a striving after wind.

As for what's around the corner. Who's in the driver seat of your life? Though I'm living, the driver of my life is God. I have no worries about what's going to happen tomm or the next day or even next year. Why should I? Should I consider the Bible a lie? Is Gods Word something that should be read, and agreed with, but then to say to one self, its doesn't apply to me?

1Pe 5:7 casting all your anxiety upon him, because he careth for you.

Was peter lying? Was God? Are we to read this and say "Yeah, that's right, but not for me"?

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me.

And Jesus? Will he not supply our needs?

Phi 4:6 In nothing be anxious; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

We are not to worry about ANYTHING. But in everything be in prayer. We must not forget how that scripture ends, "let your request be made known to God". The bible tells us to come BOLDLY to God, we can come BODLLY to the throne of God because we know he HEARS US, and when Christ lives in us and we live in him, all our prayers will be answered.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Does God lie?

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful.

Christ left us to return to Heaven and left us with peace. He gave it to us. Not as money gives us peace, or a good bed, but only as Christ can give us peace. Because he allows us to give all our problems to him, not some, or a few, but all of them. So that our hearts may not be troubled, neither fearful.

Thank you Jesus.

I didnt say there was a problem to big for God to handle i said we need to trust in God and keep the faith, not all our problems get solved instantly!
So i dont know why your quoting chapter and verse here as i am placing my trust and faith in God.Rather than scan the bible to answer my ever question id rather speak for myself. I know the word of God and not once did i say it was a lie!

 

[razzelflabben]

Right, God provides all are needs according to His riches in glory. When you go before the almighty God, not the father God, not the friend God, by the great I AM God, and you fall before His throne to worship, and everything is stipped away except your needs, what is left.

"Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

When we lost the business, and that oppertunity, it sent me into an examination of what my (our) needs were. When I put myself before the Almighty God, I found some very amazing things out about what my needs really were and how those needs can and are being met each and every day. Poverty or not. I would encourage each and every person who claims Christ, to strip away all their preconcieved ideas and views about who God is, stand before His ultimate Godlyness, and discover what your needs really are.

 

[TheScottsMen]

Scan the bible? I did not "scan" the bible. When you read the Word enough it becomes part of you.

As for

".. id rather speak for myself"

I would much rather God speak for me. What I speak is nothing. What affect does it have? The only true word is the Word of God. When problems arise in our lives we must let God speak for us.

Moses when going to Egypt did not speak for himself.

Exo 4:12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt speak.



"..i said we need to trust in God and keep the faith, not all our problems get solved instantly!"

Really? When we pray to God, do we wait to see if God will make good our our prayer by what we see happen? Is out faith by sight? Again, I'll let God speak for me, not of myself.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

"...believe that you receive them" - We are not to believe when we see, but when we pray! Problem taken care of!

 

[TheScottsMen]

.

 

[Rainbow.]

Scan the bible? I did not "scan" the bible. When you read the Word enough it becomes part of you.

As for

".. id rather speak for myself"

I would much rather God speak for me. What I speak is nothing. What affect does it have? The only true word is the Word of God. When problems arise in our lives we must let God speak for us.

Moses when going to Egypt did not speak for himself.

Exo 4:12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt speak.



"..i said we need to trust in God and keep the faith, not all our problems get solved instantly!"

Really? When we pray to God, do we wait to see if God will make good our our prayer by what we see happen? Is out faith by sight? Again, I'll let God speak for me, not of myself.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

"...believe that you receive them" - We are not to believe when we see, but when we pray! Problem taken care of!

Well they way you speak to people doesn't come across very Godly or the way you try and twist everything i say. I would rather listen to God than you any old day, and nothing you have written so far has any impact on me as you sound like a preaching robot.

 

[TheScottsMen]

##I would rather listen to God than you any old day, and nothing you have written so far has any impact on me as you sound like a preaching robot.##

The written Word of God is the "Logos". That is the scriptures. When you read the scriptures that is God talking to us. Your not listening to me. Your reading what God was spoken to us. If nothing God has written that I have posted has had any impact on you, then so be it. It has on me. God has blessed my life so much. Has given me a wife, a son, hes paid for my college, my wife's college, our car, our apartment. He has put food on the table every single day of our lives. Whenever we have needed something, we prayed, and we received. Never once has he withheld. We have never lacked. We must stand on the Word of God to receive and when we stand we receive the second we pray. That's my point.

"..preaching robot."

I'll take that as a compliment

God bless you

TSM

 

[Rainbow.]

##I would rather listen to God than you any old day, and nothing you have written so far has any impact on me as you sound like a preaching robot.##

The written Word of God is the "Logos". That is the scriptures. When you read the scriptures that is God talking to us. Your not listening to me. Your reading what God was spoken to us. If nothing God has written that I have posted has had any impact on you, then so be it. It has on me. God has blessed my life so much. Has given me a wife, a son, hes paid for my college, my wife's college, our car, our apartment. He has put food on the table every single day of our lives. Whenever we have needed something, we prayed, and we received. Never once has he withheld. We have never lacked. We must stand on the Word of God to receive and when we stand we receive the second we pray. That's my point.

"..preaching robot."

I'll take that as a compliment

God bless you

TSM

I wasn't trying to insult you when i said that,because if i was that wouldn't be the thing that comes to mind.
The thing with you is that your telling everyone what you have when it's nothing to do with the thread, but asides from all of that there's no knowing how you would be if your life changed in some unfortunate way. Of course you'll say you would deal with it, would love God, and not be worried blah blah, blah but i dont know that, so the only way i can see your point is that you feel blessed because of the person that you are. If you haven't had to deal with the problems poor people do then you will never know the things they have to go through. But im sure now i will hear about the time when you was poor with only a cracker between 10 of you! lol
You say that im not listening to you but God? well if that's the case then you should speak with all the qualities of God.Besides only the bible verses you quotes are from God, not all the other stuff. I dont understand why you as a man cant speak for yourself Anyways this is totally going away from the topic so im off.
God bless you. x

 

[LeeS]

##I would rather listen to God than you any old day, and nothing you have written so far has any impact on me as you sound like a preaching robot.##

The written Word of God is the "Logos". That is the scriptures. When you read the scriptures that is God talking to us. Your not listening to me. Your reading what God was spoken to us. If nothing God has written that I have posted has had any impact on you, then so be it. It has on me. God has blessed my life so much. Has given me a wife, a son, hes paid for my college, my wife's college, our car, our apartment. He has put food on the table every single day of our lives. Whenever we have needed something, we prayed, and we received. Never once has he withheld. We have never lacked. We must stand on the Word of God to receive and when we stand we receive the second we pray. That's my point.

"..preaching robot."

I'll take that as a compliment

God bless you

TSM

TheScottsMen,

I just want to let you know that I appreciate what you have written. I needed to hear it. That is how faith comes. By hearing and hearing by the Word.

Thank you very much ScottsMen. God has been telling me for some time now that while I have depended on Him I have depended on Him doing it a particular way, which would be through another human being. In reality, if I'm expecting someone else to meet my needs via their knowledge of it or God telling them then it really is not God at all that I'm depending on. It is the human.

Thank you again.

LeeS

 

[razzelflabben]

Jesus says, "Ask in my name you will recieve it" this does not mean that if we ask for anything and tack on the words, "in Jesus name" we will recieve it, rather it means that if we ask for the things that Jesus want for us, (the needs we have when we are alone with almighty God and all externals are stipped away) Jesus will give it.

So far in your short life, God has blessed you abundantly with the things you have asked for what a wonderful testimony to God's love. I fear however, that someday, as most of us will experience sooner or later, that things don't always go the way we would like for them too. That doesn't mean that God has abandoned or not given us our needs. What it means is that our needs are different than what we percieve our needs to be. God knows us intimately, better than we know ourselves and it is He alone who knows what we need. Does this mean that because I don't receive something that I think is a need, I am not believeing. NO! It means that if I truely believe what God says, I accept that I did not really understand what my true needs are.

 

[Rainbow.]

TheScottsMen,

I just want to let you know that even though others may feel they do not need to hear the Word again, I certaintly appreciate that you have given it anyway. I needed to hear it. And afterall, that is how faith comes. By hearing and hearing by the Word.

Thank you very much ScottsMen. God has been telling me for some time now that while I have depended on Him I have depended on Him doing it a particular way, which would be through another human being. In reality, if I'm expecting someone else to meet my needs via their knowledge of it or God telling them then it really is not God at all that I'm depending on. It is the human.

Thank you again.

LeeS

I didn't say i didn't want to hear the word, only that i didn't want it dictacted to me by others. There is a difference!
Also i dont like the fact some people need to use the bible to answer every point, as no matter what point you are trying to make, you will always find a verse in the bible which seems appropriate. So please get your facts correct before you comment on what others want or do not want to hear.Thank you.
God bless.

 

[LeeS]

Jesus says, "Ask in my name you will recieve it" this does not mean that if we ask for anything and tack on the words, "in Jesus name" we will recieve it, rather it means that if we ask for the things that Jesus want for us, (the needs we have when we are alone with almighty God and all externals are stipped away) Jesus will give it.

So far in your short life, God has blessed you abundantly with the things you have asked for what a wonderful testimony to God's love. I fear however, that someday, as most of us will experience sooner or later, that things don't always go the way we would like for them too. That doesn't mean that God has abandoned or not given us our needs. What it means is that our needs are different than what we percieve our needs to be. God knows us intimately, better than we know ourselves and it is He alone who knows what we need. Does this mean that because I don't receive something that I think is a need, I am not believeing. NO! It means that if I truely believe what God says, I accept that I did not really understand what my true needs are.

I'm older than you are razzelflabben, I've known the Lord since I was around 3 or 4 yrs old and I've experience God's provision the same as TheScottsMen. Anytime there was less than what I needed it was due to my getting in the way and trying to do things my way instead of His. I don't believe we're talking about things that we percieve as needs vs what He percieves as needs. We need food, shelter, and clothing. He promises to meet all of those.

 

[Rainbow.]

I didn't say i didn't want to hear the word, only that i didn't want it dictated to me by others. There is a difference!
Also i dont like the fact some people need to use the bible to answer every point, as no matter what point you are trying to make, you will always find a verse in the bible which seems appropriate. So please get your facts correct before you comment on what others want or do not want to hear.Thank you.
God bless.

 

[LeeS]

I didn't say i didn't want to hear the word, only that i didn't want it dictacted to me by others. There is a difference!
Also i dont like the fact some people need to use the bible to answer every point, as no matter what point you are trying to make, you will always find a verse in the bible which seems appropriate. So please get your facts correct before you comment on what others want or do not want to hear.Thank you.
God bless.

I was speaking to TheScottsMen and I was speaking for myself.

 

[TheScottsMen]

-

 

[Rainbow.]

and I was not speaking to you

Oh well God knows the truth. Dont comment on peoples threads then if you dont want people to answer you back, as it's clearly obvious you were responding to the Scottsman over the conversations we were having! But if it makes you feel better.

 

[razzelflabben]

Ecc 2:26 For to the man that pleaseth him God giveth wisdom, and knowledge, and joy; but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that pleaseth God. This also is vanity and a striving after wind.


Your use of this passage indicates that you do not understand the book or point of Ecclesiastes. The whole point is that all these things are meaningless, the work of the one who toils and the one who reapes the reward both die and stand before God's judgement throne.

The author of Ecclesiasties wants us to know that what we need is a relationship with God. Something he did not even fully understand because he too, looked at food and shelter as needs but as he studied, he discovered a greater truth, the truth that temperal things are folly and the eternal is all that really matters.

 

[LeeS]

Oh well God knows the truth. Dont comment on peoples threads then if you dont want people to answer you back, as it's clearly obvious you were responding to the Scottsman over the conversations we were having! But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and lie!

Your above post was quite rude.