Is it a sin to remain poor?

[Rainbow.]

Where does it say He creates disaster against His own children? That would be a direct contradiction to Ps 91

Well, as i am a child of God i have had my many disasters and troubles as did Jesus, and i believe they happen for a reason. Its doesn't mean you have to turn your back on God, Just trust in him completely that he will help us through the good times as well as the bad.

 

[admtaylor]

This prosperity message has been sooooooooo distorted. Who says that the prosperity that's promised in the Bible is to come through money? Couldn't it just as easily come through faith or emotional well being? I would think the later more likely since the way of the world is money and we are commanded to not be of the world.

 

[Follower of Christ too]

I see a warning in 1st Timothy chapter 6

 

[Andrew]

This prosperity message has been sooooooooo distorted. Who says that the prosperity that's promised in the Bible is to come through money? Couldn't it just as easily come through faith or emotional well being? I would think the later more likely since the way of the world is money and we are commanded to not be of the world.

When the Bible talks about a man prospering, it is certainly not limited to just financial prosperity. To prosper in the Biblical sense means "excellence" in everything, whether it is in the area of family life, marriage, career, finances, health etc.

What stumbles or offends most Christians is the talk of money -- financial prosperity, just one aspect of Biblical prosperity. The thread happens to be about financial prosperity. That's what get's thrown up often, hence the discussion.

I see a warning in 1st Timothy chapter 6

You mean the love of money being the root of all evil. Who's talking about loving money here?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

This prosperity message has been sooooooooo distorted. Who says that the prosperity that's promised in the Bible is to come through money? Couldn't it just as easily come through faith or emotional well being? I would think the later more likely since the way of the world is money and we are commanded to not be of the world.

Let's once again reiterate we are not talking about becoming millionaires. We are talking about feeding the kids and paying the bills = Needs Met.
I am all for emotional well being and have long taught on the subject of "soul healing", but you cannot eat emotions and the power company will not accept smiles as payment.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I see a warning in 1st Timothy chapter 6

Outstanding Chapter, the heart of which is verse 10

1Ti 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

People should not love money.... regardless of how much that have or do not have!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Well, as i am a child of God i have had my many disasters and troubles as did Jesus, and i believe they happen for a reason. Its doesn't mean you have to turn your back on God, Just trust in him completely that he will help us through the good times as well as the bad.

I agree Rainbow.. as we all have. But that reason was not God trying to accomplish something in your life. He accomplished everything that needed to be done in the work that Jesus did on the cross and the resurrection. There is nothing left for Him to do. If we have these troubles they have the effect of driving us to the throne... but guess what? We could have walked to the throne to start with and avoided those troubles. We do not have to wait for trouble to arrive before we draw close to God. We can do it now. It is sad that the only time people will get there eyes ont God is when they are in a hospital bed or in a financial crisis... but sometimes that is what happens. God is not behind these events, they occur naturally when we do not have faith in Him. Now do not get mad at me because I said this. You brought it up and all I did was flesh it out to show what was being said.
Fact is, the scriptures say some very specific things about how we can avoid sickenss, poverty, and early death. All of them involve faith in God and His promises.

 

[Andrew]

but you cannot eat emotions and the power company will not accept smiles as payment

 

[Follower of Christ too]

Outstanding Chapter, the heart of which is verse 10

1Ti 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

People should not love money.... regardless of how much that have or do not have!

I would say verse 6 is the heart. But Godliness with contentment is great gain

 

[Andrew]

So if a doctor is contented with having $100,000 in his bank account, while a break layer is contented with $10,000 in his bank account, and both are Godly, is that OK? Or is the doctor supposed to reduce his amount to a more 'contented' level of $5,000?

 

[razzelflabben]

I am having my husband look up some things in the original text and will get back to you on them but One of the issues I see in this thread as well as throughout the US is the whole idea of wealth and money in general. My husband, who spent 6 of the first 7 years of his life as a missionary kid in Nigeria, has a very different purspective on what poverty is because of the situation the people are asked to live in. This whole concept and idea has been reinforced by friends we know from Nigeria, Haiti, etc. In the US we have a distorted idea of money due largely to the fact that we live in a wealthy country. How can you or anyone else for that matter, claim that the hungry people around the world, even in Zimbabwa (and yes, many of these people are wonderful, God fearing, Bible believing followers), that live in poverty because of the oppression forced on the people, are living in sin. The thread was started as a question ,Is it sin to remain in poverty? I come back to the issue of what sin is. Sin means to break the law of God, the act of not doing what God wants (definition from my Bible concordance) If my poverty is caused by oppression of others toward me (even in the US, happens more than any American is comfortable admitting), then whose sin is it, mine because I am being treated unfairly, or the sin of the person who is not listening to God's law and treating and paying the wages God commands. I have heard a lot of people judge the impoverished but no one speaks about the Christian business person who fails to follow God's commands for a Godly business, thus forcing others to live in poverty.

Another issue I have with this thread is the whole idea that just because I don't know where the next meal is coming from, I can not be blessed. Faith comes from trusting God dispite what I have in my hand at this moment. Faith is believing that even if I don't have the money for food, shelter, heat, God will provide and in the end I will be taken care of. If you have money, and you believe that your needs will be met, you are believing in yourself and your own ability to provide for your needs. Which is faith, believing in yourself, or in the giver of all things good?

Once we answer that question then lets go back and ask the question again. What is good? Who says that poverty is bad. God says that He would that none of us would live in poverty, He also says that He does not will anyone to parish, yet we know that some will. Just because God would have none go hungry, doesn't mean that it is bad for some to live in poverty, the whole idea presented in 2 Cor 8, is that we need to work together and if we are doing that, then none of us have to live in poverty. It is only when we fail to follow God's plan that any of us have to live in poverty, again, whose sin is it?

 

[Anthony]

hhmmm.... seems like its God's "wish above all things".

Let's just go a little further with your opinion that "God is not interesting in our financial status". That is to say, you are totally on your own when it comes to material needs, money, food, clothing etc. Whao, can you imagine having an area of your life that is God-forsaken!? That means its all by your own effort that you provide for yourself. You are your own blesser in this area. You cannot claim that God has blessed you. So it must be the devil. Becos God aint interested in your financial status. You dont even know what you are saying when you make such a broadsweeping scriptureless statement.

The purpose and the point, the message of the Gospel does not involve finances or finanical betterment or gain. As also Christ's death on the cross.

 

[Andrew]

Faith is believing that even if I don't have the money for food, shelter, heat, God will provide and in the end I will be taken care of.

That is prosperity but why stop there and limit God? If you can believe God to put food on the table despite having nothing (which takes great faith), why can't others with less faith than you believe God for a stable job that pays well so that they can pay their bills, eat and feed their families, tithe to church, give generously when the offering bag is passed etc?

Who says that poverty is bad

Read the curses and blessings in Deu 28. Does poverty come under the list of blessings?

Poverty is defined as "the condition of being extremely poor". How can that be a good thing? How can that be the will of God? God owns the earth and everything in it, but his children, joint-heirs with Christ is supposed to be extremely poor? How in the world can he be Jehovah Jireh if he's like that?

 

[Andrew]

The purpose and the point, the message of the Gospel does not involve finances or finanical betterment or gain. As also Christ's death on the cross.

We are redeemed from poverty. That means that Christ redemptive work includes redeeming us from the curse of poverty. So, prosperity (as with healing) is part of the Gospel/cross.

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law.

What is the curse of the Law? -- if you fail to obey the law, you will be cursed.

What kind of curses? Read Deu 28. Poverty curses are included.

So, if Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, he redeemed us from the curses of poverty.

Now, we can either walk in the light of that, or go on in darkness, thinking that poverty is somehow a blessing.

One reason why God details the curses in Deu 28 (there are so many of them compared to the blessings) is so that Christians won't end up calling a curse a blessing. Sadly, many still don't know the difference.

 

[Rainbow.]

I agree Rainbow.. as we all have. But that reason was not God trying to accomplish something in your life. He accomplished everything that needed to be done in the work that Jesus did on the cross and the resurrection. There is nothing left for Him to do. If we have these troubles they have the effect of driving us to the throne... but guess what? We could have walked to the throne to start with and avoided those troubles. We do not have to wait for trouble to arrive before we draw close to God. We can do it now. It is sad that the only time people will get there eyes ont God is when they are in a hospital bed or in a financial crisis... but sometimes that is what happens. God is not behind these events, they occur naturally when we do not have faith in Him. Now do not get mad at me because I said this. You brought it up and all I did was flesh it out to show what was being said.
Fact is, the scriptures say some very specific things about how we can avoid sickenss, poverty, and early death. All of them involve faith in God and His promises.

I wont get mad at you, i think your sweet. lol
But we will have a difference of opinion ,as you say that God accomplished everything he needed to by Jesus dying on the cross, but the sad fact is there are less Christians today then ever!
As for me avoilding my troubles i would like to know how i could have avoided the death of my darling neice, and four close friends. (All were young)
I dont just pray to God wheen i need things and im quite offeneded by that suggestion. However if it wasnt aimed at me then ignore that! lol
When you say we can avoid early death and sickness by doing specific things that the scriptures say, dont you think by saying that, you are also saying that people who have lost loved ones didn't have enough faith in God?
There are millions of people that have total faith in God, but at the end of the day, God decideds everything so your having faith wont count for much if its not Gods will.
This all seems to be going away from the original thought about being poor! lol

 

[Anthony]

GAL 3:10-13
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us

When Paul is talking about redeemed from the curse of the law, he is not talking about the long list of cursings of things in Deuteronomy 28. In Paul's letter, he is telling the people the curse of having to live up to God's requirements in our own strength.

As Paul says "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law. Paul is saying that apart from Christ, we are unable to live up to the law. Jesus Christ is the only person who followed all of the laws.

Christ redeemed us from having to live to the letter of the Law. The curse of the law in total, not the curse of curses. This is what the new covenant is all about, Faith rather than Law

Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." The law is not based on faith

 

[Follower of Christ too]

So if a doctor is contented with having $100,000 in his bank account, while a break layer is contented with $10,000 in his bank account, and both are Godly, is that OK? Or is the doctor supposed to reduce his amount to a more 'contented' level of $5,000?

This is not what I meant. I meant we should be content in whatever state we are in

 

[Follower of Christ too]

Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am therewith be content. I know BOTH, how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me..

 

[Follower of Christ too]

Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

How can you or anyone else for that matter, claim that the hungry people around the world, even in Zimbabwa (and yes, many of these people are wonderful, God fearing, Bible believing followers), that live in poverty because of the oppression forced on the people, are living in sin.

I did not say they were are living in sin. Perhaps you mis-read me. I said they definitely were not sinning by being poor. They are just suffering needlessly.
I do not recall anyone in this thread suggesting that they are living in sin.

The thread was started as a question ,Is it sin to remain in poverty? I come back to the issue of what sin is. Sin means to break the law of God, the act of not doing what God wants (definition from my Bible concordance) If my poverty is caused by oppression of others toward me (even in the US, happens more than any American is comfortable admitting), then whose sin is it, mine because I am being treated unfairly, or the sin of the person who is not listening to God's law and treating and paying the wages God commands. I have heard a lot of people judge the impoverished but no one speaks about the Christian business person who fails to follow God's commands for a Godly business, thus forcing others to live in poverty.

Again, I do not know who you are talking about when you say "judge the impoverished". I have not seen this here. You are correct. It would be a devilish thing to oppress people and cause them to live in poverty. I used to live in a poor southern mill town where the mill people were treated like dirt by the merchants and upper class. Shameful.

Another issue I have with this thread is the whole idea that just because I don't know where the next meal is coming from, I can not be blessed. Faith comes from trusting God dispite what I have in my hand at this moment. Faith is believing that even if I don't have the money for food, shelter, heat, God will provide and in the end I will be taken care of.

I think we are saying the same thing. If you have faith that you are going to be taken care of in the end, and you in fact are, then how could that be construed as not being blessed? You are blessed. You had faith. Your needs were met. Praise Him!

If you have money, and you believe that your needs will be met, you are believing in yourself and your own ability to provide for your needs. Which is faith, believing in yourself, or in the giver of all things good?

I think you are stretching things here. In this world we live in, money is the convenient and accepted method used in the transfer of goods. I used to read a lot about bartering where people trade goods for goods. Unless you are receiving food from heaven, you will have to use one of these methods. The scripture deals heavy on those who do not supply for their own household. I do that by working for a living. That is the responsible and godly way of doing this. I do not wait for money or food to rain from heaven. I doubt anyone here does.

Once we answer that question then lets go back and ask the question again. What is good? Who says that poverty is bad. God says that He would that none of us would live in poverty, He also says that He does not will anyone to parish, yet we know that some will.

The word says if I do not provide for my household then I am worse than a infidel. That would seem imply it is pretty bad for your family to live in poverty. I did not say this. The word did. I realize in this world that sometimes you cannot because there is no way. No job, no food to be had, no way to get the supply. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking that poverty, sickness, and death are somehow good things. They are not. When Jesus went about doing good, he did not put sickness or poverty on people. He did not bless them with hunger or being cold. Let's be careful that we do not go overboard in our efforts to feel good about ourselves. Poverty and sickness is bad. Always was and always will be. Anyone who thinks poverty is a good thing has likely never been there.

Just because God would have none go hungry, doesn't mean that it is bad for some to live in poverty, the whole idea presented in 2 Cor 8, is that we need to work together and if we are doing that, then none of us have to live in poverty. It is only when we fail to follow God's plan that any of us have to live in poverty, again, whose sin is it?

Nobody's. I am still unsure who it is that is saying this is sin? The question was asked... but I do not see anyone saying it is actually is sin.