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Is Information Physically Real..?

Landon Caeli

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Everything related to life is about information. From DNA to reproduction, to smells, sounds, sight, words, facial expressions, computers, phones, media, TV, radio, education, etc..

It seems to be the basis of life itself. So is information a spirit..? Is it an entity..? What we do know, is that it is smart enough to extract carbon from the air, which enables it to structuralize.

But if we can try and figure out what information is, and where it came from, we might be able to uncover some seriously fascinating things.

What is information to you..? And if you can, explain if it's physically real or not.
 

Carl Emerson

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Everything related to life is about information

Hardly...

Information is about mans attempts to understand.

Life and it's secrets are well beyond our ability to comprehend without the assistance of the Creator.

He enjoys us seeking out His secrets and discovering the wonders of what He has made.

Information is ever changing - reality is absolute.

Reality walked among us and we tried to destroy Him...
 
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durangodawood

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Hardly...

Information is about mans attempts to understand.

Life and it's secrets are well beyond our ability to comprehend without the assistance of the Creator.

He enjoys us seeking out His secrets and discovering the wonders of what He has made.

Information is ever changing - reality is absolute.

Reality walked among us and we tried to destroy Him...
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

Sounds information-ish.

Also, information generally is absolutely part of reality. You can certainly see it at work in biology.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Hardly...

Information is about mans attempts to understand.

Life and it's secrets are well beyond our ability to comprehend without the assistance of the Creator.

He enjoys us seeking out His secrets and discovering the wonders of what He has made.

Information is ever changing - reality is absolute.

Reality walked among us and we tried to destroy Him...

Would you say then that information exists both in the spiritual and physical worlds..? Because when God reveals something to us, whether through the Bible, or prophecy, then is that information coming from the spiritual world and entering the physical world..?

Is information a "medium"..? The "boundary" between two worlds? And that's why it's so hard to pinpoint what exactly it is..?

...Yet it's all around us.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Also, information generally is absolutely part of reality. You can certainly see it at work in biology.

Something strange and fascinating is that we often consider "information" to be a trait exclusive to life...

...Yet DNA, being the very fountain of information that it is, is not alive. It's made of dead materials:

How DNA is Non-living thing?

1- DNA is chemical compound composed of chain of peptides and proteins strung together in a double helix formation that is like a blueprint in telling the organic chemistry in your body how to build cells, what kind of cells, and where to build them. And chemical compounds can not be considered as a living things, because in realty, all chemical compounds ( e.g enzymes, fats , lipids , proteins , ……….. etc ) are non-living things. So, if we said DNA is living, we to say that all chemical compounds are living also.
2- DNA is non-living, because it is a molecule not an organism, and this molecule is not sharing organisms in any property, even in replication process as it needs co-workers ( e.g. Enzymes, RNA co-factors ) to succeed its replication.
3- DNA is non-living because it cannot maintain homeostasis on its own. And it does not have a metabolism of its own.
4- Is water living or non-living? Water is the simplest example of something not living but responsible for maintaining life. So, DNA is not living but responsible for so many important functions related to life as it is the genetic material which control all the vital processes in the bodies of -almost all the organisms.
5- DNA is non-living because it is not having any growth and it can’t grow, and the process of replication is not growth, it is simply " Duplication ".
6- Firstly, living things are made up of the living material or the protoplasm while non-living things are made up of dead material. And DNA is non-living because it is made up of dead material ( e.g Codons and nucleotides ), in additional to that all the structure of DNA composed of dead materials that are chemical components.
7- If we defined growth as adding new material to our bodies, then DNA is living, because in the process of replication it add new sequences to its structure, but even in this case we have say it is non-living because DNA is not showing development which is the second part of growth, and simply development is the changes in structure living things undergo as it grow and age. So. no change in the structure occurring after replication process.
8- Birth and death is one of the characteristics of living thing, DNA appeared in the living and it is not having birth point to have death point. So, DNA is non-living because it never dies.
9- DNA is not living. It is a chemical – a large fragile molecule – in fact it is a FANTASTICALLY HUGE MOLECULE and for what it is, it is in fact remarkably robust. It contains a series of chemical bonds linked together in a chain, and since not all the links of the chain are the same, it is possible to store information there. Our modern computers use binary – a code made of two digits – 1 and 0 or ON and OFF or MAGNETIZED and NOT MAGNETIZED. DNA uses quaternary code – 4 digits represented by four proteins.
Is DNA living or non-living thing?? get the answer here
 
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Landon Caeli

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Information is an inference by beings with the capacity to process their experiences and respond accordingly.

Yet, information exists in plants as well. through their ability to reproduce or self-replicate...

In fact you can walk into any shaded forest, and look at a single tree, and know that it holds more information than the entire public library system in your county.

cherryblossomtree.jpg


...The irony of paper books.
 
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durangodawood

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Something strange and fascinating is that we often consider "information" to be a trait exclusive to life...

...Yet DNA, being the very fountain of information that it is, is not alive. It's made of dead materials:

How DNA is Non-living thing?

1- DNA is chemical compound composed of chain of peptides and proteins strung together in a double helix formation that is like a blueprint in telling the organic chemistry in your body how to build cells, what kind of cells, and where to build them. And chemical compounds can not be considered as a living things, because in realty, all chemical compounds ( e.g enzymes, fats , lipids , proteins , ……….. etc ) are non-living things. So, if we said DNA is living, we to say that all chemical compounds are living also.
2- DNA is non-living, because it is a molecule not an organism, and this molecule is not sharing organisms in any property, even in replication process as it needs co-workers ( e.g. Enzymes, RNA co-factors ) to succeed its replication.
3- DNA is non-living because it cannot maintain homeostasis on its own. And it does not have a metabolism of its own.
4- Is water living or non-living? Water is the simplest example of something not living but responsible for maintaining life. So, DNA is not living but responsible for so many important functions related to life as it is the genetic material which control all the vital processes in the bodies of -almost all the organisms.
5- DNA is non-living because it is not having any growth and it can’t grow, and the process of replication is not growth, it is simply " Duplication ".
6- Firstly, living things are made up of the living material or the protoplasm while non-living things are made up of dead material. And DNA is non-living because it is made up of dead material ( e.g Codons and nucleotides ), in additional to that all the structure of DNA composed of dead materials that are chemical components.
7- If we defined growth as adding new material to our bodies, then DNA is living, because in the process of replication it add new sequences to its structure, but even in this case we have say it is non-living because DNA is not showing development which is the second part of growth, and simply development is the changes in structure living things undergo as it grow and age. So. no change in the structure occurring after replication process.
8- Birth and death is one of the characteristics of living thing, DNA appeared in the living and it is not having birth point to have death point. So, DNA is non-living because it never dies.
9- DNA is not living. It is a chemical – a large fragile molecule – in fact it is a FANTASTICALLY HUGE MOLECULE and for what it is, it is in fact remarkably robust. It contains a series of chemical bonds linked together in a chain, and since not all the links of the chain are the same, it is possible to store information there. Our modern computers use binary – a code made of two digits – 1 and 0 or ON and OFF or MAGNETIZED and NOT MAGNETIZED. DNA uses quaternary code – 4 digits represented by four proteins.
Is DNA living or non-living thing?? get the answer here
Not sure DNA is information, strictly speaking. Its a medium for transmission of info. Just like the book you read. Both dead matter.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Not sure DNA is information, strictly speaking. Its a medium for transmission of info. Just like the book you read. Both dead matter.

Maybe not... Interesting point.

Which returns me to my original question... What is information, really..?
 
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Carl Emerson

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Would you say then that information exists both in the spiritual and physical worlds..? Because when God reveals something to us, whether through the Bible, or prophecy, then is that information coming from the spiritual world and entering the physical world..?

Is information a "medium"..? The "boundary" between two worlds? And that's why it's so hard to pinpoint what exactly it is..?

...Yet it's all around us.

Information is relative to language and understanding.

Spirits can be deceptive bringing false 'understanding'

I prefer the term revelation - this is a gift from Truth Himself.
 
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Occams Barber

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Everything related to life is about information. From DNA to reproduction, to smells, sounds, sight, words, facial expressions, computers, phones, media, TV, radio, education, etc..

It seems to be the basis of life itself. So is information a spirit..? Is it an entity..? What we do know, is that it is smart enough to extract carbon from the air, which enables it to structuralize.

But if we can try and figure out what information is, and where it came from, we might be able to uncover some seriously fascinating things.

What is information to you..? And if you can, explain if it's physically real or not.


Information is a concept describing the transmission of data, directions or facts from one entity to another. It does not exist as a physical reality. Information should not be confused with the means used to transmit information which does have physical reality. Means of transmission normally consists of a medium containing a series of symbols whose meanings are shared by the sender and receiver.

I'm reluctant to apply the term 'information' to DNA. It seems to me that the function of DNA is to trigger a series of chemical reactions. The DNA end product is merely the sum total of this chemical chain of cause and effect. To suggest that DNA transmits information is akin to saying that a bat hitting a ball 'transmits' information to the ball.

The term 'information' has been dragged into the evolution argument by Creationists as a means of creating confusion. The term information is also a means by which the vague concept of intelligent agency can be smuggled into the conversation. The term is usually undefined or given a definition which is so vague it's practically useless.

OB
 
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Tinker Grey

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Would you say DNA transmits information?
No. It replicates (IANABiologist). It creates copies of itself due to physical properties of the molecules. Occasionally, it does not replicate exactly.

What it means (or that there is meaning at all) is solely the province of a sapient entity.
 
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durangodawood

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No. It replicates (IANABiologist). It creates copies of itself due to physical properties of the molecules. Occasionally, it does not replicate exactly.

What it means (or that there is meaning at all) is solely the province of a sapient entity.
Yes DNA replicates. But thats hardly all it does. Its the encoded medium for genetic information: instructions about what proteins to build for what task.
 
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Tinker Grey

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Yes DNA replicates. But thats hardly all it does. Its the encoded medium for genetic information: instructions about what proteins to build for what task.
This is an esoteric discussion that is my fault for beginning. But, I argue that all information is what a sapient being infers from the world around it. There is no information in gravity. That there is an inverse square law involved isn't coded into gravity. It is a modelling in our brains that allows us to predict orbits, etc.

The inverse square (if that is the thing I should be thinking about) exists in our brains. Information is us storing in our brains what we know. The information doesn't reside in this or that mass. It resides in our brains.

ETA: Reminds me of this quote from Hogfather (Terry Pratchett)
“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

"They're not the same at all!"

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"

MY POINT EXACTLY.”​

Nor will you ever find an atom of information.
 
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Landon Caeli

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A majority of biologists DON'T think DNA replicates?

Biologists think of life in terms of information, that is, information storage and processing. They cast a narrative in terms of things like coded information. Your DNA, for example, is packed full of coded information – instructions, translation, transcription, editing, and signalling.

Information theory: explaining life with physics
 
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Landon Caeli

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The term 'information' has been dragged into the evolution argument by Creationists as a means of creating confusion. The term information is also a means by which the vague concept of intelligent agency can be smuggled into the conversation. The term is usually undefined or given a definition which is so vague it's practically useless.

OB


This is false.
 
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