Is honesty a strict requirement, always, no exceptions?

[LovebirdsFlying]

This happened a long time ago. The only reason it's on my mind is, it came up in a family discussion earlier.

Subject: Parents involving their children in an act of dishonesty. Especially when those same parents, catching those same children in a lie, would not hesitate to wear the daylights out of them with a belt.

State fair. My brother had recently turned 13. My mother tells the lady at the ticket booth he's 12. Of course, 12 and under paid a lower price for entry, but I didn't make that connection at the time. I didn't realize she was trying to be slick and save a little bit of money. I honestly thought, his birthday was recent enough, maybe Mom forgot he's 13 now. So, I said it. Out loud.

The ticket booth lady let him on through at the 12-and-under price. It could be that she didn't hear me. Or it could be that she heard me loud and clear, and she knew very well what I would catch if she made my mother pay full price for him, and she wanted to spare me such a fate. If that's the case, I'm grateful. If she didn't hear me, that was probably just as well for me too.

There was an expression going around during WWII, "Loose lips sink ships." The context was that an enemy spy could be overhearing, so be careful what you say. The adults in my family co-opted that phrase and put it in the context of, "I'm trying to pull a fast one here, and I don't want you blowing it for me, so keep your yap shut or you're in big trouble." As it is, I still caught a fair amount of dirty looks and grumbling, once we were away from the ticket booth, because I had opened my "big mouth," and "almost ruined everything."

Of course, the example came up in the discussion of hiding the Jews from the Nazis. "Do you have any Jews hiding in your house?"--"No, sir!" Well, I am entirely incapable of looking someone in the eye and saying something I know not to be true. Not that I'm holier-than-thou and I've never tried; I simply can't do it. I'm not even good at poker, or any other game involving strategy, because I just can't bluff. I *will* give myself away, however unintentially. So, for me, honesty really is the best policy. That means I probably shouldn't create a situation in which I would need to cover up something, such as hiding Jews from Nazis. The Jews would likely be better off if I don't involve myself, so that I can't give it away. (I am occasionally accused of lying, possibly because so many other people in those circumstances would lie, and that hurts me a lot. I may even take steps to document and prove what I'm saying is true. Only to be told I'm being unnecessarily defensive.)

That's not the only time I was ever the bad guy for speaking the truth. "Tell the bill collector on the phone I'm not home," was another common setup. I got ROYALLY chewed out for putting a bill collector on hold, "Just a minute please," and telling my mother it's a utility company asking for her. She looked angry and shook her head. I came back to the phone and said she's not home. After the call ended, she blew all the way up at me. In slightly different words, she said, "What a fool you made of me! You weren't discreet enough! They're gonna KNOW I was home!" I was every bit of 11 years old at the time. Supposed to be crafty and wise in the ways of the world at that age, wasn't I?

Repeat, this is the same mother who wouldn't have hesitated to let me have it with a belt if I ever lied to HER about anything.

Experience with similar situations in my young years tells me that if my mother's state fair ruse had failed, if she had ended up paying the full entry price for my brother, I would have been punished. Most likely everyone would get a soft drink, or ice cream cone, or some other treat, except me. Reason being, because I opened my mouth, now there's not enough extra money to get me one too. Maybe that'll teach me a lesson for next time.

Assuming rigorous honesty is a Christian value, or even a secular moral value, what should each person in this situation do? As the child, should you open your mouth and tell the truth, even if it exposes that your parent is lying? As the parent, is it right to expect your child to lie FOR you, especially if you would severely punish that child for lying TO you? As the ticket booth operator, would you let the 13-year-old on through at the 12-year-old price to save his sister from getting clobbered?

What are your thoughts?

 

[John G.]

I too have difficulty lying but I compensate for it by looking like a retard when I have to.
If someone with a gun ran towards me screaming "where did that loser go?", I could not give him a lie like "he went left!" cause my expression would give me away. However, I could do a very believable "Huh? What loser?"
In your case, however, I would've kept my mouth shut and not contradicted my mother in public. Questioning her in private would've been wiser.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I too have difficulty lying but I compensate for it by looking like a retard when I have to.
If someone with a gun ran towards me screaming "where did that loser go?", I could not give him a lie like "he went left!" cause my expression would give me away. However, I could do a very believable "Huh? What loser?"
In your case, however, I would've kept my mouth shut and not contradicted my mother in public. Questioning her in private would've been wiser.

I'm sure you're right, but at the moment, I didn't realize she was trying to get away with something. I hadn't made the connection to the ticket prices, and I honestly thought she'd forgotten he'd had a birthday recently. That's how decidedly un-slick I am.

 

[Sam91]

I used to not catch on that it was lies and blurt out the truth unless my mum winked at me to keep my mouth shut. She used to lie about our bus fares and to my little brothers.

But keeping your mouth closed would have been the correct thing to do as a child. As for not saying your mum was in, hanging up the phone might have served. Obey parents/honour them and leave consequences to God to dish out. As an adult, I'd be truthful but honouring if possible. So would keep my mouth pinned shut with effort.

 

[Neogaia777]

This happened a long time ago. The only reason it's on my mind is, it came up in a family discussion earlier.

Subject: Parents involving their children in an act of dishonesty. Especially when those same parents, catching those same children in a lie, would not hesitate to wear the daylights out of them with a belt.

State fair. My brother had recently turned 13. My mother tells the lady at the ticket booth he's 12. Of course, 12 and under paid a lower price for entry, but I didn't make that connection at the time. I didn't realize she was trying to be slick and save a little bit of money. I honestly thought, his birthday was recent enough, maybe Mom forgot he's 13 now. So, I said it. Out loud.

The ticket booth lady let him on through at the 12-and-under price. It could be that she didn't hear me. Or it could be that she heard me loud and clear, and she knew very well what I would catch if she made my mother pay full price for him, and she wanted to spare me such a fate. If that's the case, I'm grateful. If she didn't hear me, that was probably just as well for me too.

There was an expression going around during WWII, "Loose lips sink ships." The context was that an enemy spy could be overhearing, so be careful what you say. The adults in my family co-opted that phrase and put it in the context of, "I'm trying to pull a fast one here, and I don't want you blowing it for me, so keep your yap shut or you're in big trouble." As it is, I still caught a fair amount of dirty looks and grumbling, once we were away from the ticket booth, because I had opened my "big mouth," and "almost ruined everything."

Of course, the example came up in the discussion of hiding the Jews from the Nazis. "Do you have any Jews hiding in your house?"--"No, sir!" Well, I am entirely incapable of looking someone in the eye and saying something I know not to be true. Not that I'm holier-than-thou and I've never tried; I simply can't do it. I'm not even good at poker, or any other game involving strategy, because I just can't bluff. I *will* give myself away, however unintentially. So, for me, honesty really is the best policy. That means I probalby shouldn't create a situation in which I would need to cover up something, such as hiding Jews from Nazis. The Jews would likely be better off if I don't involve myself, so that I can't give it away. (I am occasionally accused of lying, possibly because so many other people in those circumstances would lie, and that hurts me a lot. I may even take steps to document and prove what I'm saying is true. Only to be told I'm being unnecessarily defensive.)

That's not the only time I was ever the bad guy for speaking the truth. "Tell the bill collector on the phone I'm not home," was another common setup. I got ROYALLY chewed out for putting a bill collector on hold, "Just a minute please," and telling my mother it's a utility company asking for her. She looked angry and shook her head. I came back to the phone and said she's not home. After the call ended, she blew all the way up at me. In slightly different words, she said, "What a fool you made of me! You weren't discreet enough! They're gonna KNOW I was home!" I was every bit of 11 years old at the time. Supposed to be crafty and wise in the ways of the world at that age, wasn't I?

Repeat, this is the same mother who wouldn't have hesitated to let me have it with a belt if I ever lied to HER about anything.

Experience with similar situations in my young years tells me that if my mother's state fair ruse had failed, if she had ended up paying the full entry price for my brother, I would have been punished. Most likely everyone would get a soft drink, or ice cream cone, or some other treat, except me. Reason being, because I opened my mouth, now there's not enough extra money to get me one too. Maybe that'll teach me a lesson for next time.

Assuming rigorous honesty is a Christian value, or even a secular moral value, what should each person in this situation do? As the child, should you open your mouth and tell the truth, even if it exposes that your parent is lying? As the parent, is it right to expect your child to lie FOR you, especially if you would severely punish that child for lying TO you? As the ticket booth operator, would you let the 13-year-old on through at the 12-year-old price to save his sister from getting clobbered?

What are yoru thoughts?

One can still restrict themselves to 100% complete honesty, and still always tell the truth in a thousand different ways. And they can even use the truth to decieve by just not telling the whole truth, or not including everything. Diplomats, negotiator, lawyers, just to name a few, can easily do this expertly, etc. Most of us can even do it, and do even do it a lot, depending on whether or not we want to encourage or build somebody up, or completely destroy somebody. All you really have to do is learn how to be very, very selective, and either include or exclude certain things. Our media/news media outlets are getting to be experts at it as well, especially much more recently. They've learned their audiences very, very well, and have learned how to target them expertly. But it's all an effort to decieve/manipulate, etc. And they can even already fully predict just how well it's going to work, long, long before they even make the attempt to decieve/manipulate. They do this for the money most usually, and without even a second thought of what it's doing to their societies.

My own conscience gets convicted when I myself am speaking constantly, always wondering if it's not a constant attempt at maybe secretly trying to manipulate somebody, because unless the whole truth is told or included always, it can be sometimes constantly, etc. I have to watch myself with it/about it always, even though I'm almost always telling the truth about something always, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

One can still restrict themselves to 100% complete honesty, and still always tell the truth in a thousand different ways. And they can even use the truth to decieve by just not telling the whole truth, or not including everything. Diplomats, negotiator, lawyers, just to name a few, can easily do this expertly, etc. Most of us can even do it, and do even do it a lot, depending on whether or not we want to encourage or build somebody up, or completely destroy somebody. All you really have to do is learn how to be very, very selective, and either include or exclude certain things. Our media/news media outlets are getting to be experts at it as well, especially much more recently. They've learned their audiences very, very well, and have learned how to target them expertly. But it's all an effort to decieve/manipulate, etc. And they can even already fully predict just how well it's going to work, long, long before they even make the attempt to decieve/manipulate. They do this for the money most usually, and without even a second thought of what it's doing to their societies.

My own conscience gets convicted when I myself am speaking constantly, always wondering if it's not a constant attempt at maybe secretly trying to manipulate somebody, because unless the whole truth is told or included always, it can be sometimes constantly, etc. I have to watch myself with it/about it always, even though I'm almost always telling the truth about something always, etc.

God Bless.

It's very, very difficult to be 100% honest, even for someone who knows a lot of the truth, and is 100% genuinely truly trying really, really hard to be, etc. Not even having even one single hint of deception is not as easy as it seems. Which should tell you that a lot of people are almost always doing it all of the time almost constantly really.

 

[Sam91]

I used to not catch on that it was lies and blurt out the truth unless my mum winked at me to keep my mouth shut. She used to lie about our bus fares and to my little brothers.

But keeping your mouth closed would have been the correct thing to do as a child. As for not saying your mum was in, hanging up the phone might have served. Obey parents/honour them and leave consequences to God to dish out. As an adult, I'd be truthful but honouring if possible. So would keep my mouth pinned shut with effort.

Answered this in my morning way before my filter (and being able to see past the literal question) had kicked in. Forgot to acknowledge how difficult that must have been for you. Sorry.

Also, it is a shame your mum didn't cotton on that you would need prepared to understand. My mum learned and rather than punish me for my naivety and innocence, she devised a system so I knew not to blurt the truth out.

It must have been hard for you to witness the double standard of lying and then expecting you to do the right thing when she blatantly was not setting the example. I bet you learned to do better from that.

 

[Jerry N.]

This happened a long time ago. The only reason it's on my mind is, it came up in a family discussion earlier.

Subject: Parents involving their children in an act of dishonesty. Especially when those same parents, catching those same children in a lie, would not hesitate to wear the daylights out of them with a belt.

State fair. My brother had recently turned 13. My mother tells the lady at the ticket booth he's 12. Of course, 12 and under paid a lower price for entry, but I didn't make that connection at the time. I didn't realize she was trying to be slick and save a little bit of money. I honestly thought, his birthday was recent enough, maybe Mom forgot he's 13 now. So, I said it. Out loud.

The ticket booth lady let him on through at the 12-and-under price. It could be that she didn't hear me. Or it could be that she heard me loud and clear, and she knew very well what I would catch if she made my mother pay full price for him, and she wanted to spare me such a fate. If that's the case, I'm grateful. If she didn't hear me, that was probably just as well for me too.

There was an expression going around during WWII, "Loose lips sink ships." The context was that an enemy spy could be overhearing, so be careful what you say. The adults in my family co-opted that phrase and put it in the context of, "I'm trying to pull a fast one here, and I don't want you blowing it for me, so keep your yap shut or you're in big trouble." As it is, I still caught a fair amount of dirty looks and grumbling, once we were away from the ticket booth, because I had opened my "big mouth," and "almost ruined everything."

Of course, the example came up in the discussion of hiding the Jews from the Nazis. "Do you have any Jews hiding in your house?"--"No, sir!" Well, I am entirely incapable of looking someone in the eye and saying something I know not to be true. Not that I'm holier-than-thou and I've never tried; I simply can't do it. I'm not even good at poker, or any other game involving strategy, because I just can't bluff. I *will* give myself away, however unintentially. So, for me, honesty really is the best policy. That means I probalby shouldn't create a situation in which I would need to cover up something, such as hiding Jews from Nazis. The Jews would likely be better off if I don't involve myself, so that I can't give it away. (I am occasionally accused of lying, possibly because so many other people in those circumstances would lie, and that hurts me a lot. I may even take steps to document and prove what I'm saying is true. Only to be told I'm being unnecessarily defensive.)

That's not the only time I was ever the bad guy for speaking the truth. "Tell the bill collector on the phone I'm not home," was another common setup. I got ROYALLY chewed out for putting a bill collector on hold, "Just a minute please," and telling my mother it's a utility company asking for her. She looked angry and shook her head. I came back to the phone and said she's not home. After the call ended, she blew all the way up at me. In slightly different words, she said, "What a fool you made of me! You weren't discreet enough! They're gonna KNOW I was home!" I was every bit of 11 years old at the time. Supposed to be crafty and wise in the ways of the world at that age, wasn't I?

Repeat, this is the same mother who wouldn't have hesitated to let me have it with a belt if I ever lied to HER about anything.

Experience with similar situations in my young years tells me that if my mother's state fair ruse had failed, if she had ended up paying the full entry price for my brother, I would have been punished. Most likely everyone would get a soft drink, or ice cream cone, or some other treat, except me. Reason being, because I opened my mouth, now there's not enough extra money to get me one too. Maybe that'll teach me a lesson for next time.

Assuming rigorous honesty is a Christian value, or even a secular moral value, what should each person in this situation do? As the child, should you open your mouth and tell the truth, even if it exposes that your parent is lying? As the parent, is it right to expect your child to lie FOR you, especially if you would severely punish that child for lying TO you? As the ticket booth operator, would you let the 13-year-old on through at the 12-year-old price to save his sister from getting clobbered?

What are yoru thoughts?

My mother did the same things. The worst was during severe storms. My father was a lineman and would go out in all kinds of weather and take dangerous risk. I was told to say he wasn’t home; however, it was my mother, rather than me, who got heck. My father would call the electric company back and go to work.

With hiding Jews, one has to choose between two evils: lie or let a Jew get killed. I should also point out that there are few exceptions when silence is not an option. Hiding Jews is one of those exceptions.

 

[fhansen]

This happened a long time ago. The only reason it's on my mind is, it came up in a family discussion earlier.

Subject: Parents involving their children in an act of dishonesty. Especially when those same parents, catching those same children in a lie, would not hesitate to wear the daylights out of them with a belt.

State fair. My brother had recently turned 13. My mother tells the lady at the ticket booth he's 12. Of course, 12 and under paid a lower price for entry, but I didn't make that connection at the time. I didn't realize she was trying to be slick and save a little bit of money. I honestly thought, his birthday was recent enough, maybe Mom forgot he's 13 now. So, I said it. Out loud.

The ticket booth lady let him on through at the 12-and-under price. It could be that she didn't hear me. Or it could be that she heard me loud and clear, and she knew very well what I would catch if she made my mother pay full price for him, and she wanted to spare me such a fate. If that's the case, I'm grateful. If she didn't hear me, that was probably just as well for me too.

There was an expression going around during WWII, "Loose lips sink ships." The context was that an enemy spy could be overhearing, so be careful what you say. The adults in my family co-opted that phrase and put it in the context of, "I'm trying to pull a fast one here, and I don't want you blowing it for me, so keep your yap shut or you're in big trouble." As it is, I still caught a fair amount of dirty looks and grumbling, once we were away from the ticket booth, because I had opened my "big mouth," and "almost ruined everything."

Of course, the example came up in the discussion of hiding the Jews from the Nazis. "Do you have any Jews hiding in your house?"--"No, sir!" Well, I am entirely incapable of looking someone in the eye and saying something I know not to be true. Not that I'm holier-than-thou and I've never tried; I simply can't do it. I'm not even good at poker, or any other game involving strategy, because I just can't bluff. I *will* give myself away, however unintentially. So, for me, honesty really is the best policy. That means I probalby shouldn't create a situation in which I would need to cover up something, such as hiding Jews from Nazis. The Jews would likely be better off if I don't involve myself, so that I can't give it away. (I am occasionally accused of lying, possibly because so many other people in those circumstances would lie, and that hurts me a lot. I may even take steps to document and prove what I'm saying is true. Only to be told I'm being unnecessarily defensive.)

That's not the only time I was ever the bad guy for speaking the truth. "Tell the bill collector on the phone I'm not home," was another common setup. I got ROYALLY chewed out for putting a bill collector on hold, "Just a minute please," and telling my mother it's a utility company asking for her. She looked angry and shook her head. I came back to the phone and said she's not home. After the call ended, she blew all the way up at me. In slightly different words, she said, "What a fool you made of me! You weren't discreet enough! They're gonna KNOW I was home!" I was every bit of 11 years old at the time. Supposed to be crafty and wise in the ways of the world at that age, wasn't I?

Repeat, this is the same mother who wouldn't have hesitated to let me have it with a belt if I ever lied to HER about anything.

Experience with similar situations in my young years tells me that if my mother's state fair ruse had failed, if she had ended up paying the full entry price for my brother, I would have been punished. Most likely everyone would get a soft drink, or ice cream cone, or some other treat, except me. Reason being, because I opened my mouth, now there's not enough extra money to get me one too. Maybe that'll teach me a lesson for next time.

Assuming rigorous honesty is a Christian value, or even a secular moral value, what should each person in this situation do? As the child, should you open your mouth and tell the truth, even if it exposes that your parent is lying? As the parent, is it right to expect your child to lie FOR you, especially if you would severely punish that child for lying TO you? As the ticket booth operator, would you let the 13-year-old on through at the 12-year-old price to save his sister from getting clobbered?

What are yoru thoughts?

We live in a messy, non-innocent world where truth is under-valued and can actually get us into trouble, or keep us from getting what we want. It's all about putting me first, not truth first unless it serves my purposes. And lying comes pretty naturally to us in this fallen world-and it's not at all Christian to do it. We must learn to value truth above all else, to cultivate a love for it, to sacrifice for it. We can never commit evil even for the purpose of overcoming evil- we must at least strive to do everything we can to avoid it. And our models here aren't very good either-we take for granted that politicians and advertisers will lie, for example. We often even misrepesent ourselves to one degree or another just by the way we dress, or cover ourselves up. Transparency is not at all the order of the day in this world.

But I have to admit I'd have a hard time being truthful with them Nazis. But in a perfect world they wouldn't exist to begin with.

 

[bèlla]

My parents didn’t expect me to cover for them. I was always particular about lying and had a deep aversion to it and that hasn’t changed. Ninety-nine percent of the things they did that shouldn’t have occurred were revealed and it came from me. My sister chimed in down the road but I began as a child.

Your question made me consider how I handle the same today. And I realized I don’t care for sinful secrets. I don’t want to hold anyone’s garbage in my head and always advise honesty and confession when applicable. I think that’s an outgrowth of my countenance as a child and why I still feel the same today.

~bella

 

[Gregory Thompson]

This happened a long time ago. The only reason it's on my mind is, it came up in a family discussion earlier.

Subject: Parents involving their children in an act of dishonesty. Especially when those same parents, catching those same children in a lie, would not hesitate to wear the daylights out of them with a belt.

State fair. My brother had recently turned 13. My mother tells the lady at the ticket booth he's 12. Of course, 12 and under paid a lower price for entry, but I didn't make that connection at the time. I didn't realize she was trying to be slick and save a little bit of money. I honestly thought, his birthday was recent enough, maybe Mom forgot he's 13 now. So, I said it. Out loud.

The ticket booth lady let him on through at the 12-and-under price. It could be that she didn't hear me. Or it could be that she heard me loud and clear, and she knew very well what I would catch if she made my mother pay full price for him, and she wanted to spare me such a fate. If that's the case, I'm grateful. If she didn't hear me, that was probably just as well for me too.

There was an expression going around during WWII, "Loose lips sink ships." The context was that an enemy spy could be overhearing, so be careful what you say. The adults in my family co-opted that phrase and put it in the context of, "I'm trying to pull a fast one here, and I don't want you blowing it for me, so keep your yap shut or you're in big trouble." As it is, I still caught a fair amount of dirty looks and grumbling, once we were away from the ticket booth, because I had opened my "big mouth," and "almost ruined everything."

Of course, the example came up in the discussion of hiding the Jews from the Nazis. "Do you have any Jews hiding in your house?"--"No, sir!" Well, I am entirely incapable of looking someone in the eye and saying something I know not to be true. Not that I'm holier-than-thou and I've never tried; I simply can't do it. I'm not even good at poker, or any other game involving strategy, because I just can't bluff. I *will* give myself away, however unintentially. So, for me, honesty really is the best policy. That means I probably shouldn't create a situation in which I would need to cover up something, such as hiding Jews from Nazis. The Jews would likely be better off if I don't involve myself, so that I can't give it away. (I am occasionally accused of lying, possibly because so many other people in those circumstances would lie, and that hurts me a lot. I may even take steps to document and prove what I'm saying is true. Only to be told I'm being unnecessarily defensive.)

That's not the only time I was ever the bad guy for speaking the truth. "Tell the bill collector on the phone I'm not home," was another common setup. I got ROYALLY chewed out for putting a bill collector on hold, "Just a minute please," and telling my mother it's a utility company asking for her. She looked angry and shook her head. I came back to the phone and said she's not home. After the call ended, she blew all the way up at me. In slightly different words, she said, "What a fool you made of me! You weren't discreet enough! They're gonna KNOW I was home!" I was every bit of 11 years old at the time. Supposed to be crafty and wise in the ways of the world at that age, wasn't I?

Repeat, this is the same mother who wouldn't have hesitated to let me have it with a belt if I ever lied to HER about anything.

Experience with similar situations in my young years tells me that if my mother's state fair ruse had failed, if she had ended up paying the full entry price for my brother, I would have been punished. Most likely everyone would get a soft drink, or ice cream cone, or some other treat, except me. Reason being, because I opened my mouth, now there's not enough extra money to get me one too. Maybe that'll teach me a lesson for next time.

Assuming rigorous honesty is a Christian value, or even a secular moral value, what should each person in this situation do? As the child, should you open your mouth and tell the truth, even if it exposes that your parent is lying? As the parent, is it right to expect your child to lie FOR you, especially if you would severely punish that child for lying TO you? As the ticket booth operator, would you let the 13-year-old on through at the 12-year-old price to save his sister from getting clobbered?

What are your thoughts?

I am getting a distinct memory of certain passages.

Apparently it's okay to lie to crooked people since they're going to take advantage of you anyways.

It doesn't say to become crooked tho.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I thought that referred to how people normally see in people a reflection of their own character. Eg Liars think or people are liars. Cheaters find it hard to trust. Thieves think other people might steal. Whereas, the pure and innocent will assume others are until shown otherwise and even then don't want to believe it until they really have to.

I think it just boils down to church politics. Pastors value honest people because they're easy to manipulate that way.

 

[Sam91]

I am getting a distinct memory of certain passages.

Apparently it's okay to lie to crooked people since they're going to take advantage of you anyways.

It doesn't say to become crooked tho.

I deleted my comment because I think I was talking about some other verse from proverbs. Not the ones i looked at afterwards. I'm all confused lol

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I deleted my comment because I think I was talking about some other verse from proverbs. Not the ones i looked at afterwards. I'm all confused lol

In general, if it's too complicated, just be honest.

 

[Sam91]

In general, if it's too complicated, just be honest.

Truthfulness doesn't stop confusion but truthfulness does keep things simple.

Can't find the Proverb your recollection reminded me of but here's something 'Wisdom' says in Proverbs

"
Proverbs 8:6-9 NIV
[6] Listen, for I have trustworthy things to say; I open my lips to speak what is right. [7] My mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest wickedness. [8] All the words of my mouth are just; none of them is crooked or perverse. [9] To the discerning all of them are right; they are upright to those who have found knowledge"

 

[com7fy8]

My mother tells the lady at the ticket booth he's 12.

I might have just been quiet. But I would be concerned that she was lying.

hiding the Jews from the Nazis.

Be ready to die for whatever choice you make about this.

I would be more concerned with how well I could hide someone, than if I told the truth or not. And hiding is a form of lying, isn't it, by action if not by words??

 

[bèlla]

Be ready to die for whatever choice you make about this.

I concur and I don’t believe I would have done so given the circumstances or the consequences to others in the home and what’s required for that position.

I would be more concerned with how well I could hide someone, than if I told the truth or not. And hiding is a form of lying, isn't it, by action if not by words??

Lying requires a lot of consistency and anticipating problems. Those are the primary reasons most get caught. They can’t see where the lie will take them and rarely weigh the costs.

~bella

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Truthfulness doesn't stop confusion but truthfulness does keep things simple.

Can't find the Proverb your recollection reminded me of but here's something 'Wisdom' says in Proverbs

"
Proverbs 8:6-9 NIV
[6] Listen, for I have trustworthy things to say; I open my lips to speak what is right. [7] My mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest wickedness. [8] All the words of my mouth are just; none of them is crooked or perverse. [9] To the discerning all of them are right; they are upright to those who have found knowledge"

I dunno, Christians egg on lying politicians by voting for them just because they appear to be on their side. So it doesn't seem to be a universally adopted concept.

 

[Jerry N.]

One good thing about telling the truth is that you don’t have to remember what you said.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I think it just boils down to church politics. Pastors value honest people because they're easy to manipulate that way.

Honest people easy to manipulate.... I think that's true. That's exactly why, as I mentioned earlier, I'm not even good at games like Poker, or Monopoly where you have to haggle back and forth for property. I remember games with family, and hearing them laugh among themselves at how dumb and gullible I am, because I didn't even realize I was being taken advantage of. I see now that it makes sense. I'm looking to help make everything fair and even. I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine, and we're all happy. They, on the other hand, are looking to win the game. In order to make that happen, they'll tell me whatever they think is going to get me do what they want me to do. Result, I'm going to get cleaned out. When it's my turn to have my back scratched, um, nope. They're not going to keep their end of the bargain. Too bad, so sad. I don't remember saying I would do that, and if I did, it isn't my fault you were stupid enough to believe me. Innocent me, it didn't occur to me that they would treat *family* that way. When you're trying to win a game, it's not about who's family. It's about looking out for number one. But I just never could think that way.

It used to be that I could also be easily manipulated by telling me I was lazy or selfish. I was doing my absolute best to show that I was NOT lazy or selfish, and it would horrify me to think anybody had that opnion of me. All you had to do was hint that you thought I was being lazy or selfish by not doing this or that, and I'd move mountains with my own hands, trying to please you. I would also do things that made me look silly, because I thought the person telling me to do it really did have my best interest at heart, or really did want to be my friend. That, I've improved on.

A tendency to buy sob stories and believe lies, because I know I'm telling the truth, and I figure the other person is too--I'm still working on that.

One good thing about telling the truth is that you don’t have to remember what you said.

Exactly what I was just thinking.