Is Homosexuality a sinful act according to the Bible?

[BrotherAtArms]

Careful with that. We wouldn't want people thinking that there is someone out there other than Christ who did not sin.

Perhaps better stated that identifying as a homosexual does not mean that the person is involved in committing sinful homosexual acts.

Yeah I didn't mean it that way, but you're right, sorry for wording it that way
Only Jesus never sinned everyone XD

 

[BrotherAtArms]

I had written out my next post last night as promised, but when I hit "send" I discovered that I could not connect to the site. Perhaps it is just as well, in light of your request above. Although I try to be civil, many of my posts generate contentious responses. The last time I tried to examine Romans 1:18-2:29 (which was the subject of my lost response), I spent three days answering indignant responses after each post of substance. Since you do not want this thread to be a battleground, I'll just step out.

I appreciate it

I just want to be careful is all. I didn't want this to become a thread for debate or anything, just wanted responses from the Bible.
I understand I'm looking for an answer to my own question in a public forum which may have been a mistake on my part, but I need answers somehow if I'm to speak the Truth

Thanks for your consideration though, it is very big of you

 

[Crazy Liz]

I request as rules for this thread that only straight/heterosexual Christians answer this question only using the Bible as their reference.
My reasoning is because a "Homosexual Christian" will feel the need to defend themselves and may find cause in this question to be offensive where it is not intended.
I ask that it be straight from the Bible because anything in the Bible can be changed if using a source other than the Bible.

BIBLE ANSWERS ONLY. (Provided with explanation).

My question again is:
Is Homosexuality a sinful act according to the Bible?
If yes, please explain Biblically your answer.
If no, please explain Biblically your answer.

This is not a hate thread. This is not an argument thread.
This is strictly a question and answer thread.

**If this is not the proper location for this thread I humbly request that it be moved to the correct section. Thank you.

May I, as a straight Christian, humbly question your methodology?

A similar question was raised in my own church a few months ago. As the oldest person there, some of the younger members asked me to speak first. I said I didn't think it was right for us to be discussing this question if no one was there who would be directly affected. Without their perspective, there would be something lacking in the community discernment process.

It is easy to judge a strawman. It is also easy to have blind spots when looking at a biblical passage that does not apply to oneself or to someone one is close enough to that it will have an observable effect on one's own life. We all have blind spots. On a question like this, you are excluding precisely the people who might be able to help us see what we are missing in those blind spots.

I think encouraging a discussion like this among only people who are not directly affected by the scriptures being discussed will be biased and lead to distortion.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Mod Hat On
​

Moving thread to Debates on Homosexuality.​

Where did the thread come from?

 

[Zaac]

May I, as a straight Christian, humbly question your methodology?

A similar question was raised in my own church a few months ago. As the oldest person there, some of the younger members asked me to speak first. I said I didn't think it was right for us to be discussing this question if no one was there who would be directly affected. Without their perspective, there would be something lacking in the community discernment process.

It is easy to judge a strawman. It is also easy to have blind spots when looking at a biblical passage that does not apply to oneself or to someone one is close enough to that it will have an observable effect on one's own life. We all have blind spots. On a question like this, you are excluding precisely the people who might be able to help us see what we are missing in those blind spots.

I think encouraging a discussion like this among only people who are not directly affected by the scriptures being discussed will be biased and lead to distortion.

You know this is really insight into the liberal theology. Some kind of way , those of the liberal ilk feel as though you've got to have input from the "would be sinner" to properly decide if sin is sin.

God has spoken as to what the sin is. As such, why are you so keen on having the opinion of the one directly affected, yet dismissive of what God's Word says?

 

[Crazy Liz]

You know this is really insight into the liberal theology. Some kind of way , those of the liberal ilk feel as though you've got to have input from the "would be sinner" to properly decide if sin is sin.

God has spoken as to what the sin is. As such, why are you so keen on having the opinion of the one directly affected, yet dismissive of what God's Word says?

Not at all dismissive of what the Bible says. We're talking about applying the Bible to a concrete situation. But then we're backing off from the concrete situation and making it abstract by excluding the people directly affected from the discussion.

My preferred methodology for community discernment involves, in addition to prayer, each side of Wesley's Quadrilateral: Scripture, tradition, reason and experience. Without the other sides of the quadrilateral, it is easy to misunderstand scripture, just as it is easy to make a wrong judgment about experience without the mirrors of scripture and of the Christian community.

 

[Zaac]

Not at all dismissive of what the Bible says. We're talking about applying the Bible to a concrete situation. But then we're backing off from the concrete situation and making it abstract by excluding the people directly affected from the discussion.

Why you got to have the one performing the sin involved to say that the Bible calls it sin?

My preferred methodology for community discernment involves, in addition to prayer, each side of Wesley's Quadrilateral: Scripture, tradition, reason and experience. Without the other sides of the quadrilateral, it is easy to misunderstand scripture, just as it is easy to make a wrong judgment about experience without the mirrors of scripture and of the Christian community.

Discernment about sin comes from the Holy Spirit, not your preferred methodology. Told ya. Too much schooling. Not enough God.

You don't need experience to know that God's Word says something is sin.

 

[Abel1337]

You don't need experience to know that God's Word says something is sin.

Amen

 

[Crazy Liz]

Why you got to have the one performing the sin involved to say that the Bible calls it sin?



Discernment about sin comes from the Holy Spirit, not your preferred methodology. Told ya. Too much schooling. Not enough God.

You don't need experience to know that God's Word says something is sin.

The Holy Spirit works through Scripture, tradition, reason and experience.

Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would guide you (plural) into all truth, not you (singular). The Christian traditions most responsible for my spiritual formation (Anabaptist, Wesleyan, Quaker) are all very much oriented toward the Holy Spirit's role in discernment. All are also very aware that any of us individually may err, and we need to listen to our brothers and sisters.

We used to have 2 Christian lesbians who posted here quite a bit. One is celibate because she cannot square acting on her sexual orientation with scripture. The other is married to a man, and remains so to be faithful to God, but has gained much wisdom from her experience, in that she naively believed her sexual orientation would change if she was obedient to God. Name it and claim it. Both she and her husband have suffered as a result of this error. The experience of both these individuals added a great deal to the discussion among those willing to listen to them. They finally were both driven away, though, by a few posters who continued to pummel them with "name it and claim it" theology, which was not backed up by any experience at all.

 

[BrotherAtArms]

May I, as a straight Christian, humbly question your methodology?

A similar question was raised in my own church a few months ago. As the oldest person there, some of the younger members asked me to speak first. I said I didn't think it was right for us to be discussing this question if no one was there who would be directly affected. Without their perspective, there would be something lacking in the community discernment process.

It is easy to judge a strawman. It is also easy to have blind spots when looking at a biblical passage that does not apply to oneself or to someone one is close enough to that it will have an observable effect on one's own life. We all have blind spots. On a question like this, you are excluding precisely the people who might be able to help us see what we are missing in those blind spots.

I think encouraging a discussion like this among only people who are not directly affected by the scriptures being discussed will be biased and lead to distortion.

It's an important question for me as an individual who is a minister to know the Truth to this question. The answer...

My 'methodology' I guess would have to be in the fact that I don't go looking for homosexuals to discuss the Bible with... they come to me o0

If I'm sharing the grace of God with someone on the street, which I do pretty often, and the question comes up "So if I'm a homosexual can I go to Heaven?" How in the world am I supposed to respond if for some reason I've never studied it, and the pastor has never spoken on it, how am I supposed to answer this person correctly and Biblically? The Bible says to study to show yourself approved, be ready in and out of season. Even if there are no homosexuals in my church, they're still on the same planet I live on, and in my community, and I may have to give them a straight answer one day.
No let's not make it the issue, but yes, know the answer.

In respect towards my question on homosexuals and homosexuality, we as Christians are absolutely obligated to know the Truth so we can help every person who wants to be a Christian but have only ever heard people say that "THE BIBLE SAYS THAT IT'S AN ABOMINATION, am I an abomination?"
I need to be able to lovingly help them understand the Truth of God, that they are still loved, but they cannot act on this desire for the same sex, if that's the Biblical Truth.

I ask this question because I need to know as a Christian who serves God other than just Sundays and Wednesdays.
I talk to way too many homosexuals and atheists to not know stuff like this, so that's why I need to know this. And praise God, I have some very kind and insightful people helping me out in this thread, I'm so thankful for this.

I think encouraging a discussion like this among only people who are not directly affected by the scriptures being discussed will be biased and lead to distortion.

Since the Bible calls us all to spread the Gospel (Meaning if you're a Christian, you're a minister), I have to say that this must be discussed. We HAVE to know everything the Bible teaches us. Otherwise, how can we tell someone who's never accepted Jesus that He died for their sins, and if the thing we never discuss is the sin they have in their life... I think you get the picture by now. Plus, I've had discussions like this in groups where I find out a month later that a person that was in that group had struggles with homosexuality... So how do you know that no one is directly effected? Many people don't come out, I've had 3 friends that have... but never while we were prompted to discuss it.
If they don't think that their sin is a sin, then as the Bible instructs me to do, I have to show them their fault, ESPECIALLY if they want to be a Christian and it is a sin.

It's like if we never discuss masturbation. If a youth in the church comes to me, being a church leader, and asks, "Is it OK to touch?" I had better have some Biblical understanding on this topic before I answer this kid before they do something wrong... if it is wrong.
But of course, that's an entirely different topic, just an example.

See, no doubt in mind, as soon as someone says, "I don't think it is right for us to be discussing this question if no one is here who would be directly affected.", you'll meet someone eventually who is directly affected... don't you wish you were ready for this? I sure do, and that's why I'm discussing it now I've waited too long to learn this, I need to know it now, because I'll never know when someone is struggling with this issue will come into my life, ask me about it, then walk out my door and get into a car wreck and die. It's that important.

Where did the thread come from?

I originally posted this in the Apologetics section.

 

[Zaac]

The Holy Spirit works through Scripture, tradition, reason and experience.

Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would guide you (plural) into all truth, not you (singular). The Christian traditions most responsible for my spiritual formation (Anabaptist, Wesleyan, Quaker) are all very much oriented toward the Holy Spirit's role in discernment. All are also very aware that any of us individually may err, and we need to listen to our brothers and sisters.

You know Liz, there is always a piece of Scripture that comes to mind when I hear people speak as you do.

The Bible says 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 2 Peter 2:18

The standard of truth is STILL God's Word. Listen to Him. Our brothers and sisters can say whatever they want, but if what they are saying ain't aligning with what God says, then ain't no need to listen to them.

GOD's WORD is the standard of truth. It's when we place other things on equal footing with GOD's Word that confusion and sin are bred.

We used to have 2 Christian lesbians who posted here quite a bit. One is celibate because she cannot square acting on her sexual orientation with scripture. The other is married to a man, and remains so to be faithful to God, but has gained much wisdom from her experience, in that she naively believed her sexual orientation would change if she was obedient to God. Name it and claim it. Both she and her husband have suffered as a result of this error. The experience of both these individuals added a great deal to the discussion among those willing to listen to them. They finally were both driven away, though, by a few posters who continued to pummel them with "name it and claim it" theology, which was not backed up by any experience at all.

That still bears no relevance to there needing to be someone commititng the sin involved in the discussion in order to say that the sin is sin.

If you feel that such a person's input would add to the discussion, that's fine. But I don't have to have murdered someone to speak to what God's Word morally says about the sin.

 

[Crazy Liz]

It's an important question for me as an individual who is a minister to know the Truth to this question. The answer...

Thank you. Now that I know where you're coming from, may I speak to you minister to minister?

My 'methodology' I guess would have to be in the fact that I don't go looking for homosexuals to discuss the Bible with... they come to me o0

They come to me, too. And it's in this context that it is appropriate to wrestle with the question.

If I'm sharing the grace of God with someone on the street, which I do pretty often, and the question comes up "So if I'm a homosexual can I go to Heaven?" How in the world am I supposed to respond if for some reason I've never studied it, and the pastor has never spoken on it, how am I supposed to answer this person correctly and Biblically? The Bible says to study to show yourself approved, be ready in and out of season. Even if there are no homosexuals in my church, they're still on the same planet I live on, and in my community, and I may have to give them a straight answer one day.
No let's not make it the issue, but yes, know the answer.

Does God want every minister to know every answer, or does God want ministers to be able to help people find the answers they need? (and perhaps leave some questions unanswered because God knows we really don't need the answers to those particular questions)

How often did Jesus give people a "straight answer" to their questions? It's hard to think of any yes-or-no question that Jesus actually answered with a yes or a no. Was Jesus not ready for these questions? Of course Jesus was ready. And Jesus was wise enough not to be trapped into giving a "straight answer."

When someone who was seeking asked Jesus a question, he often answered, "Come and see." Do you have someone or some place where you could take a person with questions you couldn't (or perhaps shouldn't) answer on your own? If you do, is there more to gain by going there than just finding out the answer? In my experience there is. Meeting other Christians & finding out what a Christian community is like often has more value than getting a quick answer to a single question from a single Christian. So if I don't know an answer to a theological question, I don't worry about it. If it's important, I'll do what I can to help the person find the answer. Or perhaps I'll do as Jesus often did, and reframe the question in a way that will make more of a difference. For example, do you remember how Jesus answered the question, "Who is my neighbor?"

In respect towards my question on homosexuals and homosexuality, we as Christians are absolutely obligated to know the Truth so we can help every person who wants to be a Christian but have only ever heard people say that "THE BIBLE SAYS THAT IT'S AN ABOMINATION, am I an abomination?"

We absolutely need to know the Truth. (I'm glad you used a capital letter here, so I could understand what you meant.) Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life." But knowing the Truth doesn't mean knowing the answer to every question, does it?

I think it means not being afraid to say we know the Truth, and we trust in God, even if we haven't found the answers to our questions.

"Am I an abomination?" is a question that stems from despair. It comes from fear that one can never be saved, and giving up hope. Relying on the Holy Spirit, you can know in the moment how to respond to that despair, and a "straight answer" to the question (yes or no) does not speak to the person's despair of ever being loved by God. Respond to the despair, and you'll have an opportunity to come back to the direct question sometime in the future, once the bigger issue has been addressed.

I need to be able to lovingly help them understand the Truth of God, that they are still loved, but they cannot act on this desire for the same sex, if that's the Biblical Truth.

How about telling them they are loved by God, and acting on their desire is a tough question you also struggle to answer?

I ask this question because I need to know as a Christian who serves God other than just Sundays and Wednesdays.
I talk to way too many homosexuals and atheists to not know stuff like this, so that's why I need to know this. And praise God, I have some very kind and insightful people helping me out in this thread, I'm so thankful for this.

To know it's a tough question the people of God continue to struggle with may be enough to invite someone to "Come and see."

Since the Bible calls us all to spread the Gospel (Meaning if you're a Christian, you're a minister), I have to say that this must be discussed.

Yes.

We HAVE to know everything the Bible teaches us.

I don't think we ever will. We'll always be learning.

Otherwise, how can we tell someone who's never accepted Jesus that He died for their sins, and if the thing we never discuss is the sin they have in their life... I think you get the picture by now.

Yeah. That's the gospel. We need to know that. But even our understanding of the gospel deepens over time.

Plus, I've had discussions like this in groups where I find out a month later that a person that was in that group had struggles with homosexuality... So how do you know that no one is directly effected? Many people don't come out, I've had 3 friends that have... but never while we were prompted to discuss it.
If they don't think that their sin is a sin, then as the Bible instructs me to do, I have to show them their fault, ESPECIALLY if they want to be a Christian and it is a sin.

It's like if we never discuss masturbation. If a youth in the church comes to me, being a church leader, and asks, "Is it OK to touch?" I had better have some Biblical understanding on this topic before I answer this kid before they do something wrong... if it is wrong.
But of course, that's an entirely different topic, just an example.

It's a good example. The Pharisees came to Jesus several times with questions phrased in terms of "Is it OK to...?" Did Jesus ever answer one of these questions with a yes or no?

Here's a list of questions worded this way in the gospels: http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1832&t=kjv

The KJV translates the question most often as "Is it lawful?" but having studied this in depth in Greek (and you can get the idea by consulting other translations, even if you haven't studied Greek), I can tell you with confidence that "Is it OK?" is a very accurate contemporary translation.

If you are often asked questions phrased this way, you might want to study the ways Jesus responded to this type of question, rather than insisting on a "straight answer."

See, no doubt in mind, as soon as someone says, "I don't think it is right for us to be discussing this question if no one is here who would be directly affected.", you'll meet someone eventually who is directly affected... don't you wish you were ready for this? I sure do, and that's why I'm discussing it now I've waited too long to learn this, I need to know it now, because I'll never know when someone is struggling with this issue will come into my life, ask me about it, then walk out my door and get into a car wreck and die. It's that important.

If this happens to you, I pray you will have been able to answer that person as Jesus would have answered.

I originally posted this in the Apologetics section.

Ah OK thanks. That helps me understand where you are coming from and put the thread in its proper context, as did your follow-up post to me, which I appreciate very much.

 

[Crazy Liz]

If you feel that such a person's input would add to the discussion, that's fine. But I don't have to have murdered someone to speak to what God's Word morally says about the sin.

And if you never faced any aspect of hate or anger or fear or loss, the issue of murder would just seem weird to you. You would have to learn a little bit about these things in order to really minister to a murderer, or to someone tempted to murder, or to someone who has had a loved one murdered. You wouldn't be able to come up with a theory of how to minister to such people in a vacuum of no experience at all.

 

[BrotherAtArms]

Thank you. Now that I know where you're coming from, may I speak to you minister to minister?



They come to me, too. And it's in this context that it is appropriate to wrestle with the question.



Does God want every minister to know every answer, or does God want ministers to be able to help people find the answers they need? (and perhaps leave some questions unanswered because God knows we really don't need the answers to those particular questions)

How often did Jesus give people a "straight answer" to their questions? It's hard to think of any yes-or-no question that Jesus actually answered with a yes or a no. Was Jesus not ready for these questions? Of course Jesus was ready. And Jesus was wise enough not to be trapped into giving a "straight answer."

When someone who was seeking asked Jesus a question, he often answered, "Come and see." Do you have someone or some place where you could take a person with questions you couldn't (or perhaps shouldn't) answer on your own? If you do, is there more to gain by going there than just finding out the answer? In my experience there is. Meeting other Christians & finding out what a Christian community is like often has more value than getting a quick answer to a single question from a single Christian. So if I don't know an answer to a theological question, I don't worry about it. If it's important, I'll do what I can to help the person find the answer. Or perhaps I'll do as Jesus often did, and reframe the question in a way that will make more of a difference. For example, do you remember how Jesus answered the question, "Who is my neighbor?"



We absolutely need to know the Truth. (I'm glad you used a capital letter here, so I could understand what you meant.) Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life." But knowing the Truth doesn't mean knowing the answer to every question, does it?

I think it means not being afraid to say we know the Truth, and we trust in God, even if we haven't found the answers to our questions.

"Am I an abomination?" is a question that stems from despair. It comes from fear that one can never be saved, and giving up hope. Relying on the Holy Spirit, you can know in the moment how to respond to that despair, and a "straight answer" to the question (yes or no) does not speak to the person's despair of ever being loved by God. Respond to the despair, and you'll have an opportunity to come back to the direct question sometime in the future, once the bigger issue has been addressed.



How about telling them they are loved by God, and acting on their desire is a tough question you also struggle to answer?



To know it's a tough question the people of God continue to struggle with may be enough to invite someone to "Come and see."



Yes.



I don't think we ever will. We'll always be learning.



Yeah. That's the gospel. We need to know that. But even our understanding of the gospel deepens over time.



It's a good example. The Pharisees came to Jesus several times with questions phrased in terms of "Is it OK to...?" Did Jesus ever answer one of these questions with a yes or no?

Here's a list of questions worded this way in the gospels: http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1832&t=kjv

The KJV translates the question most often as "Is it lawful?" but having studied this in depth in Greek (and you can get the idea by consulting other translations, even if you haven't studied Greek), I can tell you with confidence that "Is it OK?" is a very accurate contemporary translation.

If you are often asked questions phrased this way, you might want to study the ways Jesus responded to this type of question, rather than insisting on a "straight answer."



If this happens to you, I pray you will have been able to answer that person as Jesus would have answered.



Ah OK thanks. That helps me understand where you are coming from and put the thread in its proper context, as did your follow-up post to me, which I appreciate very much.

I appreciate your input, and I'd like to respond by just saying that I'm reading a book called, "When Skeptics Ask". It's a book that helps ministers/Christians in pre-evangelism, which is setting aside all the educated and philosophical things that peoples heads are filled with today. The first question is, "Does God exist?"
I don't doubt that Jesus taught in a very unique way, but from personal experience in this type of 'session' has taught me that I can't just teach a person the Truth of the Bible without being able to answer their questions, especially with teenagers.
It's very difficult for me to no explain what the Bible means by just saying a parable or go off on a random story.
That's not what gets peoples attention in today's time, they are looking for a people who live the Word, and teach it properly.


It's very important to note that the Bible talks about these topics (murder, homosexuality, thievery, hatred). In my opinion, if the Bible talks about these things to the reader, it would only make sense that I, a teacher of this Book, should talk about the same things.

I agree that the Holy Spirit teaches us all things, and He's taught me that I should always be ready to discuss the Bible whenever a Skeptic brings up a topic so that they can further understand what it says about this, that, and the other.
If we shouldn't discuss it, then the Bible shouldn't say anything about it.

It's better to learn the answers than leave them in confusion.

 

[Zaac]

And if you never faced any aspect of hate or anger or fear or loss, the issue of murder would just seem weird to you. You would have to learn a little bit about these things in order to really minister to a murderer, or to someone tempted to murder, or to someone who has had a loved one murdered. You wouldn't be able to come up with a theory of how to minister to such people in a vacuum of no experience at all.

Why not? Sin is sin. Christ never committed a single one, yet He ministered to those who performed them. If you are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, the Word of God says:

13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. John 16:13-14

If I am indwelled by the Holy Spirit, I don't have to have experienced a sin to be able to minister to those who have committed sin.

If I have sinned, and I most definitely have, I am capable of ministering to someone else about their just as equal before God sin.
But that in no way changes the sin from anything but sin.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I appreciate your input, and I'd like to respond by just saying that I'm reading a book called, "When Skeptics Ask". It's a book that helps ministers/Christians in pre-evangelism, which is setting aside all the educated and philosophical things that peoples heads are filled with today. The first question is, "Does God exist?"
I don't doubt that Jesus taught in a very unique way, but from personal experience in this type of 'session' has taught me that I can't just teach a person the Truth of the Bible without being able to answer their questions, especially with teenagers.
It's very difficult for me to no explain what the Bible means by just saying a parable or go off on a random story.
That's not what gets peoples attention in today's time, they are looking for a people who live the Word, and teach it properly.

"Skeptics" are an interesting group of people. My son is about your age, and has that very mindset.

Not all people of today's time are of that mindset. Most of the younger people I know are artists of various kinds and have more of a postmodern mindset.

It's very important to note that the Bible talks about these topics (murder, homosexuality, thievery, hatred). In my opinion, if the Bible talks about these things to the reader, it would only make sense that I, a teacher of this Book, should talk about the same things.

I agree that the Holy Spirit teaches us all things, and He's taught me that I should always be ready to discuss the Bible whenever a Skeptic brings up a topic so that they can further understand what it says about this, that, and the other.
If we shouldn't discuss it, then the Bible shouldn't say anything about it.

It's better to learn the answers than leave them in confusion.

Some parts of the Bible seem to be about getting the answers, while other parts seem to be about ways to live with the questions. The wisdom you find in Proverbs is very different from the wisdom you find in Job or Ecclesiastes. But you have to understand the kind of wisdom in Proverbs first. Then when you encounter the situations where that doesn't work, you move on to Job and/or Ecclesiastes.

 

[Jig]

Hey, I actually agree with you on this. But, isn't this one of the reasons that more and more homosexuals are wanting to commit themselves to one partner and have that commitment officially recognized?

Two men or two women can not come together to become "one flesh".

In Genesis we not only see God giving Adam a "suitable" partner (a woman) but also his definition and reason for marriage.

Gen. 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

In every passage discussing one flesh in Scripture, it is always between a man and a woman. This makes sense because God made woman out of man. When they come together (man and wife) they become complete again, or "one flesh" again. There is also the obvious physical and anatomical connection. The body parts fit and are meant for each other. Homosexual union is biologically unnatural, unnecessary, purposeless, and non-essential.

Here is the simple rundown...

1. Performing sexual acts on your partner before marriage is sinful.
2. Only those who are married and have become "one flesh" can perform sexual acts.
3. Since "two men" or "two women" can't become "one flesh" they can never truely be married in any real sense of how God planned it to be.
4. This means a person can never perform sexual acts with the same sex, even if governmental law says they are married, because God's law supercedes.

Sidenotes:

I believe someone can be born "gay". (Yes, I said it) We are all born with sinful desires, some are more pominent then others. Some people have strong desires to steal, strong desires to lie, and the such. Having a strong desire to lust after the same sex is just merely one of many sinful desires we can have. But just because someone has had a strong certain desire since birth doesn't make it okay to exercise. Take a person with a strong desire to kill. Should we let him because he was born a murderer? No. So...claiming to be gay since birth truely means nothing.

True homosexauls will have no offspring (they don't pass on thier genes) so what purpose to they serve in the evolutionary progress which requires genetic transfer? (I don't believe in darwinian evolution, but its something of interest to those who do believe in it.) Since homosexuals do not pass on their genes it can be safely said that homosexuality is not hereditary and not genetic.

 

[No Swansong]

I think encouraging a discussion like this among only people who are not directly affected by the scriptures being discussed will be biased and lead to distortion.

So would I need a murderer present to have a discussion about whether murder is a sin, in order to assure the discussion isn't biased or distorted?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

So would I need a murderer present to have a discussion about whether murder is a sin, in order to assure the discussion isn't biased or distorted?

Difficult to understand someone's position and motivation, even murderers, without actually involving them in the dialogue

 

[No Swansong]

Difficult to understand someone's position and motivation, even murderers, without actually involving them in the dialogue

I don't need to know their motivation or position to discuss whether the Scriptures teach that murder is sin. The discussion is about the Scriptures and what they teach about a specific act, not what the motivations are of those who commit such an act. Much more important to such a discussion would be a Biblical scholar, or an Ancient Languages scholar, or even perhaps a person with strong skills in Exegesis. (sp?)

With that said however I find alternative and even opposing points of view interesting and informative. They are not however necessary for me to understand what Scripture says about a particular subject.