Is Hitler In Hell?

[Tonks]

I believe Hitler was in Heaven for a brief moment, judged and then had to reincarnate in order to learn the lessons he needed to learn according to that judgement.

But he wasn't reincarnated as the same man, you know, because it is appointed a man once to die...

But we will all be in Heaven eventually.

Incorrect. We get one shot.....make the best of it. Hitler was not reincarnated - principally as such a silly belief throws Christianity in the garbage can.

 

[HomeBound]

Incorrect. We get one shot.....make the best of it. Hitler was not reincarnated - principally as such a silly belief throws Christianity in the garbage can.

In what way does it throw christianity into the garbage? It makes Jesus' testimony of God's unconditional love that much more acceptable.

And some forms of so called christianity should be tossed. Like the "I'm better than you because I believe in Jesus" sort.

Besides, you don't know for certain that we each get one shot. That's just what you've been told and it's your gospel.

 

[scandinavian19]

Besides, you don't know for certain that we each get one shot.

Heb 9:27 - And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
To the Theif on the cross Christ said,

Lu 23:43 - And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
Luke 16:19-31 "The parable of the Richman and Lazarus" no second chances here.

So where in scripture are certain we get more than one shot?

 

[Tonks]

In what way does it throw christianity into the garbage? It makes Jesus' testimony of God's unconditional love that much more acceptable.

I think that you're under the mistaken impression that the point of the Incarnation was to make folks feel good.

"It is appointed that men die once, and after death be judged." (Hebrews (9:27)

And some forms of so called christianity should be tossed. Like the "I'm better than you because I believe in Jesus" sort.

I agree.

Besides, you don't know for certain that we each get one shot. That's just what you've been told and it's your gospel.

Reincarnation is incompatible with Christianity because it reduces the body to a matter of clothing. The person is basically a spirit who inhabits one body or another. God creates each person as a unique, non-repeatable and non-changeable being, and we continue as that person into eternity, whether in heaven or hell.

Biblically there is zero support for your position.

 

[HomeBound]

Reincarnation is incompatible with Christianity because it reduces the body to a matter of clothing. The person is basically a spirit who inhabits one body or another. God creates each person as a unique, non-repeatable and non-changeable being, and we continue as that person into eternity, whether in heaven or hell.

Then why didn't Elijah come back as Elijah? Instead he came back as John the baptist. And don't bother going into all that garbage that John was in the spirit and power of Elijah, because that's what reincarnation is. And Jesus outright said that John IS Elijah.

 

[Tonks]

Then why didn't Elijah come back as Elijah? Instead he came back as John the baptist. And don't bother going into all that garbage that John was in the spirit and power of Elijah, because that's what reincarnation is. And Jesus outright said that John IS Elijah.

Luke 1:17 states that John the Baptist would "go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah." Jesus described him as "Elijah who is to come" because Hebrew thinking often employed prototypes or types and shadows. It was a way to emphasize a man's characteristics to simply call him the name of another, since the other represented certain thinks in the Hebrew mind. Elijah was a prophet (one of the greatest), and John was the last of the prophets.

Matthew 17:10-13 is a parallel to Mark 9:11-13, where Jesus refers to John the Baptist as "Elijah." But this passage shows that the disciples understood this prototypical thinking, since it tells us "the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist." Moreover, both Elijah and Moses are described as appearing with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration We know that this Elijah returned from heaven is distinguished from John the Baptist (as a person) because even as Jesus and the disciples were coming down the mountain, Jesus referred to Elijah as "already come" and that men "did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands".

This (persecution to the death) was true of John (and Jesus) but never of Elijah, so it absolutely proves that Jesus thought John and Elijah were two different men, even though He called John "Elijah" - in prototypical language. It also rules out reincarnation (which is utterly contrary to biblical Christianity anyway) because it shows that Elijah was still alive as a distinct person even after John the Baptist was murdered, whereas in reincarnation, Elijah would have ceased to be when he "moved into" John's body.

Further, when viewing Tradition as a witness the only ECF that had a solid, documented belief in reincarnation was Origen (a view which was condemned as heretical). Even Orgien did not think that Elijah and St. John the Baptist were the same person.

You interpretation is standing on a foundation of clay.

 

[HomeBound]

Luke 1:17 states that John the Baptist would "go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah." Jesus described him as "Elijah who is to come" because Hebrew thinking often employed prototypes or types and shadows. It was a way to emphasize a man's characteristics to simply call him the name of another, since the other represented certain thinks in the Hebrew mind. Elijah was a prophet (one of the greatest), and John was the last of the prophets.

Matthew 17:10-13 is a parallel to Mark 9:11-13, where Jesus refers to John the Baptist as "Elijah." But this passage shows that the disciples understood this prototypical thinking, since it tells us "the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist." Moreover, both Elijah and Moses are described as appearing with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration We know that this Elijah returned from heaven is distinguished from John the Baptist (as a person) because even as Jesus and the disciples were coming down the mountain, Jesus referred to Elijah as "already come" and that men "did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands".

This (persecution to the death) was true of John (and Jesus) but never of Elijah, so it absolutely proves that Jesus thought John and Elijah were two different men, even though He called John "Elijah" - in prototypical language. It also rules out reincarnation (which is utterly contrary to biblical Christianity anyway) because it shows that Elijah was still alive as a distinct person even after John the Baptist was murdered, whereas in reincarnation, Elijah would have ceased to be when he "moved into" John's body.

Further, when viewing Tradition as a witness the only ECF that had a solid, documented belief in reincarnation was Origen (a view which was condemned as heretical). Even Orgien did not think that Elijah and St. John the Baptist were the same person.

You interpretation is standing on a foundation of clay.

That's just more proof of man's limited understanding of heavenly things. Nothing more. I believe Jesus, not man.

 

[Tonks]

That's just more proof of man's limited understanding of heavenly things. Nothing more. I believe Jesus, not man.

Considering I mentioned Origen at the end of several paragraphs of Scriptural references you're only seeing what you'd like to see (and produced zero argument to the contrary). At any rate, Christianity has denied such heterdox views as you present - and when speaking of "Christianity" I'm not talking merely about Rome.

There are no new heresies under the sun...which you have aptly demonstrated.

 

[HomeBound]

To view reincarnation as heresy is where the problem arises. It makes everyone too afraid to even ponder.

What do I care about Origen? The Church was more screwed up in his day than it is now.

 

[icedtea]

And some forms of so called christianity should be tossed. Like the "I'm better than you because I believe in Jesus" sort.

That's just what you've been told and it's your gospel.

If we do not believe Jesus is God in the flesh, we are the spirit of antichrist.

It is THE gospel.

 

[Renton405]

Remember hitler also commited suicide. Which is a mortal sin. So he's got that going for him too as a ticket to hell..

Hitler also claimed certain divinity to himself, which is blashemy. And has antichrist qualities.

A person can "say" they believe in Christ, but truely not mean it.

Remember this verse everyone (espesially protestants)

Matthew 7:21 (NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

I sincerely cannot tribute what Hitler did was doing the fathers will. On all accounts he fails.

Hitler also was into the occult, and very into it. I believe he has interest in Aliester Crowley too and used spellcraft to his advantage. He was very much into relics too, and i believe he got a hold of the spear of destiny(the spear of the roman soldier that pierced Jesus's side on the cross)

Poland has one of the largest Catholic populations. And many of the people he killed were Christians. In fact for some of the concentration camps they had to get priests for the dead because of the great large christian populations in them.

 

[JonF]

how can a man who was responsible for tens of millions of deaths be given eternal life while a good non-believer is condemned to suffer for all time?

Your question is of the form: How can P go to hell when Q goes to heaven since P is a much better person than Q. In order for this to make any kind of sense it must be assumed that some people deserve heaven. The bible makes it clear this isn’t the case. With that in mind: Matthew 20:1-16

1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3 "About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5 So they went.
"He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'
7 " 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered.
"He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'
8 "When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his supervisor, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'
9 "The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'
13 "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'
16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Jeffrey Dahmer claims to have repented before he was killed. Who knows.

 

[dennis777]

I'm not as evil as Hitler, but I'm (or was) evil.

Before I became (somewhat) obedient to the Scriptures, I did very little "helping the poor".

Jesus commanded me to "Sell all that you own , and give the money to the poor. Love your neighbor as yourself. do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.".

I've never come close to obeying the teachings of Christ. Since I got saved, I've done a little better. But, I'm far from perfect.

There are many people , in the third world, who i could have rescued, but i didn't.
I could have helped to send Bibles and missionaries to them, but i didn't. They died, hungry, without ever hearing the Gospel. And it's (at least partially) my fault.

My point is: I am conscience-stricken. And every person on earth is conscience-stricken. None of us have a clean conscience.

Let Jesus save whom He pleases, and let us re-double our efforts to please him.

dennis

 

[icedtea]

When you did it to the least of these, you did it for me.

 

[GreyLeader]

Dear LaTasha,

Firstly, Hitler was not a Christian. It is interesting to view some of what he said in private more than public because as a devious politician speaking to predominately Christian Germany, you would expect him to take advantage of it in his speeches; the book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus, and Young, Inc. first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published Hitler's Table Talk in England.

The following are a few exerts whose statements are by Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7).

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52).

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278).

Source:
Baskette, J. (n.d.). Was Hitler A Christian?. Available on-line at Answers In Action website. Retrieved 17 October 2006.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Mischewski[/FONT], D. (2001). Hitler - Christian, Atheist, Or Neither?. Available on-line at Catholic, Christian, Cogent website. Retrieved 17 October 2006.

Even if I'm wrong and Hitler thought of himself as a Christian, his actions make it clear that he was not a Christian as Jesus clearly says that "by their fruits you shall know them" (Matthew 7:20). You cannot be a true Christian and act as he did, let alone without remorse. It is impossible.

My personal view is that Hitler is awaiting damnation in hell for his sins unless he turned to Christ sincerely at the end which, considering these quotes listed above, is unlikely.

I'd like to get around to answering the other part, but I've got to go to work.

Bfn,
GreyLeader.

 

[Calminaion]

1 Corinthians 4:1-5
Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

I suggest the "Hitler" discussion be laid to rest for this reason. I believe the question regarding children is a legitimate question.

 

[Knowledge3]

Who knows?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

um, why did you feel the need to say this?? WHY especially us "Protestants"????

A person can "say" they believe in Christ, but truely not mean it.

Remember this verse everyone (espesially protestants)

Matthew 7:21 (NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

 

[LaTasha]

I suggest the "Hitler" discussion be laid to rest for this reason. I believe the question regarding children is a legitimate question.

what makes you think you have any right to end a discussion i started? i am new here, let me discuss things that are on my mind, that is what this forum is for.

to the others, thanx for replying. i simply used hitler as an example of an evil man, who may or may not have gone to heaven, as opposed to good people who are atheists who do not. i was just wondering about this, i suppose no one has the answers but god.