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Is Hitler In Hell?
- Thread starter LaTasha
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i read a while ago that hitler was infact a christian, and if he accepted the lord, would such a man go to heaven, while atheists who do good for family and friends and others go to hell, simply because they do not believe? seems very unfair, doesn't it? i'm sure this subject has been discussed before, but i'm new to this site so i'm hoping for some replieshow can a man who was responsible for tens of millions of deaths be given eternal life while a good non-believer is condemned to suffer for all time? also, i am curious about whether or not babies who cannot accept jesus yet go to heaven or not. thanks for replies!
love,
-LaTasha-
Its more than believeing. The demons believe, and they shudder. You have to receive Him into your life. People take other guys statements at face vaule, which I guess is fine but not when it comes to christianity.
How does one Christian know when another Christian is saved? And the answer is by thier fruits.
Love, peace, Joy, kindess, patience, and so forth. Plus Doers of the word, rather than just hearers. Fath without works, actions is dead. If Hitler was a real Christian. He would have been displaying the fruits of the spirit and He would have had the desire to follow through with watever He was reading in the Bible.
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I find the amount of information on this forum quite daunting for someone who has only time to dip in and out occasionally and the title of this thread caught my eye. Luckily it has only reached 5 pages, as opposed to the 20 or 30 pages many other interesting topics have reached which have put me totally off taking the time to read them.
This has been an interesting thread to read through. We started discussing the question, got side-tracked into a debate on Christianity and re-incarnation, got back on track, then fell out over bad grammar.
My view:
1. Hitler. Theoretically Hitler could have been saved if he truely repented, but theoretically (according to chaos theory) I could also spontaneously explode into a shower of flower petals. Both things could happen, but are extremely unlikely.
The reason the person who raised the question gave for raising it is a difficult one to answer. Why should someone who has lead a "good" life be trumped by someone who has lead a bad life but said sorry at the last minute.
My view is that I think it comes down to how we view good and bad. It's not just about not being bad, it's about being the most good I can be, based on the hand I've been dealt. Often the things we credit ourselves with as being good aren't done because we have chosen to do them over something bad, but because of our upbringing, temperament, current state of mind mean we have either never had the opportunity to or even wanted to.
I'll try and give an example of what I'm thinking of. Imagine I pick up the newspaper and read about a terrible murder. Part of me thinks I could never do that so I'm a good person.
But then I ask myself, have I ever actually wanted to kill someone. Well, no. So what credit is to me that I have never done something i have never wanted to do. Now if I did really want to, had the opportunity to do it, then didn't because I believed it was wrong, I might then be able to give myself a little credit.
Well how do I behave when find something that is wrong that I do want to do (fiddle my expenses a little, watch my neighbour changing through her window, cross the street to avoid the man shaking the charity box, etc). Too often I find myself doing it and making excuses (they owe me, she should have closed her curtains, I don't have small enough change). It's like saying I'm a good person because I don't drink, when the reason I don't drink is that I don't like the taste and has nothing to do with whether I think drinking is wrong. However I'll quite happily wolf down a fried breakfast even though my doctor has told me to eat more healthily to stop me having a heart attack.
So if that's how I behave when I am faced with something I am actually tempted to do, how do I know how I would behave if my upbringing or circumstances had been different, if I felt the despiration of the drug addict or the rage of the jilted lover. I guess i should thank God that he chose to give me loving supportive Christian parents, good health and a secure job, cause if he hadn't, who knows what i would be doing.
2. Re-incarnation and Christianity. Er, no. I used to have a theory that perhaps children and people who had never heard the gospel were re-incarnated until they had to opportunity to choose, but accepted there was no scriptural basis for this whatsoever and it was just a pretty idea. The John - Elija thing is, to be honest, a bit silly. Countless verses and parables, by Jesus and the other writers, all refer to one life (birth, death, judgement). So the "Jesus said it" argument is a bit weak. Jesus called Peter "Satan" (get thee behind me...) at one stage and no-one believes he meant that Peter and Satan were the same. It's just a way to try and get round the fact that tragically some people will end up in hell (another difficult question). Knowing we had countless lives to earn heaven would not inspire us to do better but merely to leave it to our next life. Don't believe me? Attitude to global warming - let the next generation deal with it. I want my cheap gas and 4 miles per gallon car.
3. Children. Jesus clearly had a special place in his heart for children and often used them as illustrations for how we should approach God and what the Kingdom of Heaven would be like. He gives dire warnings to anyone who would hurt one of them (millstone - neck - sea). I sincerely doubt there are any children in hell. While I don't know the cut-off date for childhood, I believe God is good and whatever happens will be fair and just.
4. Grammar.
This has been an interesting thread to read through. We started discussing the question, got side-tracked into a debate on Christianity and re-incarnation, got back on track, then fell out over bad grammar.
My view:
1. Hitler. Theoretically Hitler could have been saved if he truely repented, but theoretically (according to chaos theory) I could also spontaneously explode into a shower of flower petals. Both things could happen, but are extremely unlikely.
The reason the person who raised the question gave for raising it is a difficult one to answer. Why should someone who has lead a "good" life be trumped by someone who has lead a bad life but said sorry at the last minute.
My view is that I think it comes down to how we view good and bad. It's not just about not being bad, it's about being the most good I can be, based on the hand I've been dealt. Often the things we credit ourselves with as being good aren't done because we have chosen to do them over something bad, but because of our upbringing, temperament, current state of mind mean we have either never had the opportunity to or even wanted to.
I'll try and give an example of what I'm thinking of. Imagine I pick up the newspaper and read about a terrible murder. Part of me thinks I could never do that so I'm a good person.
But then I ask myself, have I ever actually wanted to kill someone. Well, no. So what credit is to me that I have never done something i have never wanted to do. Now if I did really want to, had the opportunity to do it, then didn't because I believed it was wrong, I might then be able to give myself a little credit.
Well how do I behave when find something that is wrong that I do want to do (fiddle my expenses a little, watch my neighbour changing through her window, cross the street to avoid the man shaking the charity box, etc). Too often I find myself doing it and making excuses (they owe me, she should have closed her curtains, I don't have small enough change). It's like saying I'm a good person because I don't drink, when the reason I don't drink is that I don't like the taste and has nothing to do with whether I think drinking is wrong. However I'll quite happily wolf down a fried breakfast even though my doctor has told me to eat more healthily to stop me having a heart attack.
So if that's how I behave when I am faced with something I am actually tempted to do, how do I know how I would behave if my upbringing or circumstances had been different, if I felt the despiration of the drug addict or the rage of the jilted lover. I guess i should thank God that he chose to give me loving supportive Christian parents, good health and a secure job, cause if he hadn't, who knows what i would be doing.
2. Re-incarnation and Christianity. Er, no. I used to have a theory that perhaps children and people who had never heard the gospel were re-incarnated until they had to opportunity to choose, but accepted there was no scriptural basis for this whatsoever and it was just a pretty idea. The John - Elija thing is, to be honest, a bit silly. Countless verses and parables, by Jesus and the other writers, all refer to one life (birth, death, judgement). So the "Jesus said it" argument is a bit weak. Jesus called Peter "Satan" (get thee behind me...) at one stage and no-one believes he meant that Peter and Satan were the same. It's just a way to try and get round the fact that tragically some people will end up in hell (another difficult question). Knowing we had countless lives to earn heaven would not inspire us to do better but merely to leave it to our next life. Don't believe me? Attitude to global warming - let the next generation deal with it. I want my cheap gas and 4 miles per gallon car.
3. Children. Jesus clearly had a special place in his heart for children and often used them as illustrations for how we should approach God and what the Kingdom of Heaven would be like. He gives dire warnings to anyone who would hurt one of them (millstone - neck - sea). I sincerely doubt there are any children in hell. While I don't know the cut-off date for childhood, I believe God is good and whatever happens will be fair and just.
4. Grammar.
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FluffyBadger
Regular Member
By now I imagine he is doing his time in the heated cell but who knows what transpires down there. God may have given him a sentence and it's complete.
we just don't know these things.
we just don't know these things.
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ModernDaySpyridon
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To answer the OP:
It's none of our business.
And thank God, I have enough trouble with my own salvation.
We are not called to judgement, but to prayer.
Lord have mercy on us all.
It's none of our business.
And thank God, I have enough trouble with my own salvation.
We are not called to judgement, but to prayer.
Lord have mercy on us all.
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ScottF
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You are correct. They go strait to heaven because they haven't reached the age of accountability (Most pastors or preachers would tell you it's like 6 or 7 years old, though I could be wrong. It depends on the child I think.)
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ScottF
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Wherever Hitler is, he's exactly and precicely where he needs to be. Trust me, God wouldn't have it any other way. God judged him perfectly and fairly. If he's in heaven, then that's exactly where he needs to be, if he's in hell, thenn that's precisely where he needs to be.
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Because we all know that every book written about the NAZI's is 100 percent accurate, containing no absurd cliams and they never contradict another book written about the NAZI's.
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Unbelievable, see underlined words above, rephrasing needed. Capitalization needed as well, how did you earn an A, if you don't capitalize, your grammar is not flawless.
I did not forget to capitalize "Hitler", it was you. I merely missed it as I was skimming through, you must realize I have a lot of corrections to do.
"Sucker" - not appropriate. Please refer to me as; "the kindly one".
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Peaceful Dove
Guest
I have read some of these threads, not all of them.
Once again, all I can say it is absolutely wonderful you guys or I do not have the Lord's job. We would botch it totally.
The fact is, we do not know. We don't.
This is what we do know, God is God. He is 1000% perfect. He is incapable of making a mistake. He is totally loving, totally merciful and totally just. How?
Danged if I know, I don't even know what that means. Neither do you. I just know it is true.
I know that whatever He does is perfect in every way.
Isn't it lovely that we were commanded not to judge and the only thing we were commanded to do is to LOVE?
We weren't even comanded to like everyone or anyone, just to make a decision to love them.
Praise God, Praise God, Praise God.
Once again, all I can say it is absolutely wonderful you guys or I do not have the Lord's job. We would botch it totally.
The fact is, we do not know. We don't.
This is what we do know, God is God. He is 1000% perfect. He is incapable of making a mistake. He is totally loving, totally merciful and totally just. How?
Danged if I know, I don't even know what that means. Neither do you. I just know it is true.
I know that whatever He does is perfect in every way.
Isn't it lovely that we were commanded not to judge and the only thing we were commanded to do is to LOVE?
We weren't even comanded to like everyone or anyone, just to make a decision to love them.
Praise God, Praise God, Praise God.
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GreyLeader
Member
Dear LaTasha,
As to continue where I left off before, why are "good atheists" damned to the same judgment as someone who does the most horrible things such as Hitler? The Bible makes it very clear that the "wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). Now, wages are something that you are paid for work rendered. In other words, you earn your wages. Paul tells us in Romans 3:23 that "all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard." Because we have all repeatedly sinned, we have earned the penalty of death, which is eternal torment and punishment in a place called Hell.
Perhaps another way of thinking about it is when Adam and Eve sinned back in the garden of Eden, they were in effect telling God that they wanted to decide truth for themselves and live independent of God. So when people send themselves to Hell because of their unbelief in Christ Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they are in effect telling God that they want to live their life independent or apart from Him. God sadly gives them what they ask for when He departs them from Himself on Judgment Day. Further more, the natural alternative of living apart from the eternal life-giving source is eternal death.
For the Christian who trusts Jesus as Lord and Saviour, their sins have not gone unpunished. Jesus took God's wrath against their sins when He was on the cross; the unbelievers will take God's wrath personally upon themselves when they are condemned to eternal death. That's the main difference between us and them - every single sin that you and I have done has been washed away by the blood of Jesus when we accepted God's gift to us and as we continually repent. Jesus died as much for them as He did for you and I, but at the moment, they stand condemned because they have not accepted this free gift of Jesus' blood for themselves. God is gracious by giving people a way out by sending nothing but the best, His most prized possession - His only Son - to Earth to die a humiliating and painful death on the cross and take God's wrath so that we - who righteously deserve it - don't have to.
As for babies who die early, I believe that they will be in Heaven because God, being just, cannot hold us accountable for what we do not know, cannot comprehend, and cannot respond to.
GrammarPolice,
When using Internet lingo you don't capitalize things like "lol" or "roflol" or "btw," etc, even if it is at the start of a sentence. It generally isn't proper (at least not to my knowledge).
I suggest that if anyone wants grammar and spelling fixed up before GrammarPolice catches you that you download Mozilla Firefox 2 RC 3 as it's built in! Works like a charm!
As to continue where I left off before, why are "good atheists" damned to the same judgment as someone who does the most horrible things such as Hitler? The Bible makes it very clear that the "wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). Now, wages are something that you are paid for work rendered. In other words, you earn your wages. Paul tells us in Romans 3:23 that "all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard." Because we have all repeatedly sinned, we have earned the penalty of death, which is eternal torment and punishment in a place called Hell.
Perhaps another way of thinking about it is when Adam and Eve sinned back in the garden of Eden, they were in effect telling God that they wanted to decide truth for themselves and live independent of God. So when people send themselves to Hell because of their unbelief in Christ Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, they are in effect telling God that they want to live their life independent or apart from Him. God sadly gives them what they ask for when He departs them from Himself on Judgment Day. Further more, the natural alternative of living apart from the eternal life-giving source is eternal death.
For the Christian who trusts Jesus as Lord and Saviour, their sins have not gone unpunished. Jesus took God's wrath against their sins when He was on the cross; the unbelievers will take God's wrath personally upon themselves when they are condemned to eternal death. That's the main difference between us and them - every single sin that you and I have done has been washed away by the blood of Jesus when we accepted God's gift to us and as we continually repent. Jesus died as much for them as He did for you and I, but at the moment, they stand condemned because they have not accepted this free gift of Jesus' blood for themselves. God is gracious by giving people a way out by sending nothing but the best, His most prized possession - His only Son - to Earth to die a humiliating and painful death on the cross and take God's wrath so that we - who righteously deserve it - don't have to.
As for babies who die early, I believe that they will be in Heaven because God, being just, cannot hold us accountable for what we do not know, cannot comprehend, and cannot respond to.
GrammarPolice,
When using Internet lingo you don't capitalize things like "lol" or "roflol" or "btw," etc, even if it is at the start of a sentence. It generally isn't proper (at least not to my knowledge).
I suggest that if anyone wants grammar and spelling fixed up before GrammarPolice catches you that you download Mozilla Firefox 2 RC 3 as it's built in! Works like a charm!
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Renton405
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Because the protestant mentality is simply what that verse states. Most protestants think if they put their hands in the air and say 'Jesus' that there immediatly saved. They treat Jesus as simply 'fire insurance".Without doing any good works and good deeds(fruits). It gives the feeling that you can keep on sinning because jesus will save you anyway. It isnt the right mentality and protestants need to get out of it. 'Faith without good works is dead'- James.
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I've done a reserch paper on Hitler and the holocaust, and what I found was that Hitler, though raised in a christian family openly admitted that he thought that christianity was a great deception meant to bend the febble minded into one great conformity.
This also led him to believe that although he himself hated God, if he told the general public that he was a follower of God's ways he could mold the country's views to his own.
Unforunatly for Germany this was true.
If you believe that in order to be saved you must beeive in God he went to hell.
This also led him to believe that although he himself hated God, if he told the general public that he was a follower of God's ways he could mold the country's views to his own.
Unforunatly for Germany this was true.
If you believe that in order to be saved you must beeive in God he went to hell.
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Whereas many non-protestants think if they go to the right church they are saved. Weird eh? They also think everytime they sin they need to go get resaved. But I don't know if this is the thread for it.
As for Hitler, he is in hell. Many things are done in God's name that show the person doing it was not Christian. Jesus said there would come a time where people killed in His name, but it was because they did not know Him. Looking back on history, even in the Church, when people killed in the name of God it was not God's will, and they did not know Him.
Is it sad Hitler's in hell? Sure it is, it's sad when anyone is in hell. For such a great leader (whether you agreed with him or not, people followed him to their death) could you imagine what would have happened if he was Christian?
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I personally believe we cannot know who is in Heaven or who is in Hell until we finally end up there ourselves and take a look around. After all, God has reserved judgement unto Himself, and only He has to power to send someone to Hell or let the into Heaven. To assume that we know what and why He does what He does, especially in matters concerning salvation, is folly.
Metherion
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