Is health care a human right?

[szechuan]

People make lots of deliberate, inexcusable mistakes. That's the problem.

Deliberate or not, many people also don't.

American healthcare is built on drugs. One hour of surgery, the rest of your life on drugs.

false.

The leading cause of death in America is heart disease.

and the second is cancer

A basic angiogram is not an expensive procedure, costing little more than a colonoscopy (which has recently been encouraged nationally).

Colonoscopies are not cheap.

An accurate diagnosis of heart health (or lack thereof) can lead to immediate life-saving changes in lifestyle that would save many lives and (dare I say) $Billions in medical bills.

not everybody has access to that procedure especially low income and or people with bad insurance. Nor do they have the time and money to cook proper food, or sometimes even eat properly.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Deliberate or not, many people also don't.



false.


and the second is cancer



Colonoscopies are not cheap.



not everybody has access to that procedure especially low income and or people with bad insurance. Nor do they have the time and money to cook proper food, or sometimes even eat properly.

Well, I guess nothing can be done. Sad.

 

[szechuan]

Well, I guess nothing can be done. Sad.

False again. I guess you're one of those people that just give up just people some people make mistakes.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

False again. I guess you're one of those people that just give up just people some people make mistakes.

You are the one who is accepting the status quo by offering all the excuses. If something is inexcusable I don't excuse it.

 

[szechuan]

You are the one who is accepting the status quo by offering all the excuses. If something is inexcusable I don't excuse it.

It's not accepting it, it's realizing the truth of the matter.

 

[bhsmte]

The leading cause of death in America is heart disease.

The 'gold standard' test for CAD (the leading cause of heart attacks) is the angiogram.

A basic angiogram is not an expensive procedure, costing little more than a colonoscopy (which has recently been encouraged nationally).

An accurate diagnosis of heart health (or lack thereof) can lead to immediate life-saving changes in lifestyle that would save many lives and (dare I say) $Billions in medical bills.

So, why aren't angiograms more widely performed as a preventative diagnostic measure?

We both know the answer, don't we.

I worked with cardiologists for a while. Angiograms are not done right off the bat, because they are invasive and not without risk. There are plenty of other non invasive, less expensive tests to detect heart disease. You really need to break out of your bubble and educate yourself.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Who here knows where the money goes? Hip surgery costs about $40,000.

Why! How!

...This is where the problem lies, and it doesn't end here. Who is getting rich, while we fight over who pays?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I worked with cardiologists for a while. Angiograms are not done right off the bat, because they are invasive and not without risk. There are plenty of other non invasive, less expensive tests to detect heart disease. You really need to break out of your bubble and educate yourself.

I'm suggesting angiograms as a preventative measure, not a diagnostic measure after the individual shows signs of heart disease. Angiograms are given basically to confirm what the patient's symptoms already indicate, whereas they could be used to spot problems that aren't yet symptomatic. Of course there are risks, but that has to be weighed against the benefits.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You are basically telling the government to be the hero because you are too selfish to do it yourself.

That's not entirely true...for those who understand the math and logistics behind it, they realize that a single-payer entity has more negotiating power than a bunch of small entities and thus, are much more effective at lowering prices.

So even if every single citizen had generosity in their hearts and truly wanted to do this with selfless altruism, it still makes more sense, economically, to pool the resources together and have one single negotiating entity.

 

[bhsmte]

I'm suggesting angiograms as a preventative measure, not a diagnostic measure after the individual shows signs of heart disease. Angiograms are given basically to confirm what the patient's symptoms already indicate, whereas they could be used to spot problems that aren't yet symptomatic. Of course there are risks, but that has to be weighed against the benefits.

Again, you clearly dont have the knowledge of this subject. Less invasive and cheaper testing, can identify coronary issues. You dont jump right to an invasive diagnostic procedure with more risk, if it isnt medically necessary.

 

[bhsmte]

Who here knows where the money goes? Hip surgery costs about $40,000.

Why! How!

...This is where the problem lies, and it doesn't end here. Who is getting rich, while we fight over who pays?

What kind of hip surgery?

 

[Landon Caeli]

What kind of hip surgery?

Hip replacement. Got the figure here.

How Much Does Hip Replacement Cost? - CostHelper.com

 

[Landon Caeli]

I think a hip replacement is worth about $2000.00 total. With insurance it should cost about $200.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Less invasive and cheaper testing, can identify coronary issues.

What testing would that be?

 

[bhsmte]

I think a hip replacement is worth about $2000.00 total. With insurance it should cost about $200.

LOL.

The implant by itself, costs 6k. I manage facilities that do these cases. The supply/materials costs are about 8k, add on labor and you are at 9k. Commercial insurance will reimburse the facility between 12-14k for these cases. Surgeon fee is separate.

 

[bhsmte]

What testing would that be?

Ekg and echo cardiogram for starters and or stress ekg. You could do all 3 of those tests, for half the cost of an angiogram and less risk to the patient.

 

[bhsmte]

Who here knows where the money goes? Hip surgery costs about $40,000.

Why! How!



...This is where the problem lies, and it doesn't end here. Who is getting rich, while we fight over who pays?

In a hospital it is 40k. Outpatient, it is half the cost.

 

[Steve Petersen]

If it is, then the corollary is that it is a human duty to make sure that our fellow citizens get healthcare, and I think if one wants to convince conservatives of this point, that is the vocabulary one should use. From a Christian perspective I think it is quite reasonable to say we have a duty or responsibility to see that our fellow citizens get healthcare, regardless of whether they can afford it or planned ahead for it. Jesus said that if much is given much is required, and that by hard work we should help the weak, and healing people was a big part of his ministry, so it would make sense that getting people healthcare would be part of following him.

But regardless of whether it is a right or not, it makes better practical sense to have universal healthcare coverage. America spends more just through government funding to support healthcare, besides all the private money that its citizens have to pay, than countries with a single-payer healthcare system, and gets about equal results. If you have a middle or upper class income, your tax money is already paying for healthcare for your parents and for poor people, as well as for congress and the military, so why not let it pay for your own too? That could actually be a move to smaller government, since several different systems could be merged into one, reducing the administrative costs.

If healthcare is a human right, does that mean the government can force people to be doctors? Can they prevent doctors from leaving the profession?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ekg and echo cardiogram for starters and or stress ekg. You could do all 3 of those tests, for half the cost of an angiogram and less risk to the patient.

Angiograms are low risk, high benefit (I've had two). They are the 'gold standard' test for CAD, the biggest cause of heart disease. Those other tests are fine but don't address CAD directly. I'm suggesting using angiograms for prevention, especially with those with a family history of CAD.

Again to the risk. Many interactions with doctors, hospitals, and drugs, are more risky than this procedure. And few diagnostic procedures would offer the same benefits, especially in America where 350,000 people develop CAD each year.

 

[Loudmouth]

If healthcare is a human right, does that mean the government can force people to be doctors? Can they prevent doctors from leaving the profession?

No more so than the freedom to bear arms forces people to become gun dealers or freedom of religion forces people to be priests.

Healthcare as a right acknowledges the fact that people in our society shouldn't die from treatable diseases just because they can't afford it. People shouldn't die just because they are poor when we, as a nation, can afford to have them treated. It's a question of basic human decency. Should a child die of leukemia simply because that child happened to be born to poor parents? Should a hard working blue collar dad have to choose between chemotherapy and bankrupting his family?

We have already made these decisions when it comes to education, transportation, police, and the host of other public services that are offered to everyone equally and paid for based on income. What type of country would we be if poor kids couldn't go to school because it cost too much? What if the police let crimes happen to poor people because they couldn't pay the fees the cops were asking for?

Your actual life is even more important than education and police, so why should we put our lives at risk on a free market whose overriding incentive is profit?