Is health care a human right?

[samir]

From a Christian perspective I think it is quite reasonable to say we have a duty or responsibility to see that our fellow citizens get healthcare, regardless of whether they can afford it or planned ahead for it.

Is healthcare a right? Yes and no.

Basic healthcare (such as antibiotics to prevent someone from dying or emergency treatment to prevent someone from bleeding to death) is absolutely a human right as much as food is a right because it's necessary for survival.

However, much healthcare in the US is luxury healthcare (drugs that merely reduce symptoms while doing nothing to treat the underlying cause, MRIs for things like sprained ankles that aren't really necessary, useless "mental health" treatments, back surgeries that show no improvement in outcome a year later, expensive treatments that merely prolong life/delay the inveitable such as $500K transplants that only allow people to live 1 or 2 years longer on average and $600K cancer drugs that only prolog life by 6 months while the person remains sick and bedridden).

Providing luxury healthcare to the poor by forcing hardworking people to pay for it against their will is not only not a right but immoral IMO and a huge drain on the economy.

What I'd like to see is universal basic healthcare available to every citizen automatically and free of charge paid for with income tax dollars. Those who want luxury healthcare who have contributed enough to the economy to afford to pay for it with their own money can choose to purchase the coverage they desire just like wealthier people can choose to pay for private schools if they are not satisfied with the basic education at public schools.

 

[samir]

"Is healthcare a right?" is the wrong question. Instead, we should be asking, "Which healthcare services should people have a right to receive?

I think most people, including most conservatives, agree that emergency treatment is a right and support requiring hospitals to provide it to anyone (including illegal immigrants) regardless of ability to pay while most people including liberals would say cosmetic surgery (which is part of healthcare) is not a right.

If something is truly a right then everyone without exception (including illegal immigrants) should have a right to it so ask what services you think they should be entitled to receive.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You have your statistics Wrong, most poor people don't spend more time eating then the rich.
and the rich aren't in a hurry to eat.



Poor people can't afford those things, milk and eggs on a skillet?
That's expensive compared to instant noodles.




Sorry but It's not Parroting Liberal Activist Lines, those are the truths. You seriously think borderline Poverty people can afford Eggs?

What's cheaper, Instant Noodles, Instant Cheap foods, or Milk and Eggs, seems like it's been a while since you've been to the grocery store.

1 dollar for a can of unhealthy Mini Ravioli as an example that can feed 1 person 2 at most.
Target : Expect More. Pay Less.

And you're telling me it's cheaper to be full on Milk and Eggs and it's less expensive? That is a bunch of lies.

The poor have plenty of resources available for good food. Junk food is actually more expensive than good food. As I said, you should do your homework. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the amount of food aid that's out there. One problem is that many poor people just don't think a healthy diet is all that important.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You seriously think borderline Poverty people can afford Eggs?

Borderline poverty people get the maximum SNAP allotment. Plenty of money for good food.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

"Is healthcare a right?" is the wrong question. Instead, we should be asking, "Which healthcare services should people have a right to receive?

I think most people, including most conservatives, agree that emergency treatment is a right and support requiring hospitals to provide it to anyone (including illegal immigrants) regardless of ability to pay while most people including liberals would say cosmetic surgery (which is part of healthcare) is not a right.

If something is truly a right then everyone without exception (including illegal immigrants) should have a right to it so ask what services you think they should be entitled to receive.

Maybe an extreme viewpoint but I like Dr. Now on "My 600 Pound Life". If the patient doesn't do it his way they can go home and die. Same should hold with those who receive free food or free healthcare. There should be strict rules governing diet and other behaviors.

It's no different than warning your kids that if they misuse a privilege, such as misusing the family car, it will be removed.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You are completely wrong, Eating Healthier is much easier for the rich then the poor, that is an undeniable fact.

No. The rich eat healthier because it's more important to them. The poor can eat just as healthily.

What we're facing is a conspiracy of misinformation and deliberate ignorance. For example one website states that there are 137,400,000 Americans that are 'food insecure' (49 million families @ 2.6 people per family). That's nearly half the population.

Regarding food deserts; how long do you think it would take to get stores with affordable and healthy foods into a poor community if minorities started showing up and shopping in those upscale supermarkets in all white communities.

 

[szechuan]

No. The rich eat healthier because it's more important to them. The poor can eat just as healthily.

What we're facing is a conspiracy of misinformation and deliberate ignorance. For example one website states that there are 137,400,000 Americans that are 'food insecure' (49 million families @ 2.6 people per family). That's nearly half the population.

Regarding food deserts; how long do you think it would take to get stores with affordable and healthy foods into a poor community if minorities started showing up and shopping in those upscale supermarkets in all white communities.

Because you don't know what Food Insecurity means, You do realize many of the Poor Population have no access to Healthy Foods due to Location? You are completely ignorant to the Situations of the Poor in the U.S. and that's quite sad.

You assume that it's easy for Poor People to get good and Healthy Foods in the first place, You assume that it's cheaper when it's not.

The poor have plenty of resources available for good food. Junk food is actually more expensive than good food. As I said, you should do your homework. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the amount of food aid that's out there. One problem is that many poor people just don't think a healthy diet is all that important.

Junk Food is more expensive then Good Food, I wasn't talking about that, Unhealthy Foods such as Canned Goods and Instant Ramen are much cheaper then healthy Food.


"No. The rich eat healthier because it's more important to them. The poor can eat just as healthily."
Yes they can, but it's much more Difficult, nice that you changed your stand on Rich vs Poor.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Because you don't know what Food Insecurity means, You do realize many of the Poor Population have no access to Healthy Foods due to Location? You are completely ignorant to the Situations of the Poor in the U.S. and that's quite sad.

"Food insecurity" is more of a political term than a meaningful one.

You assume that it's easy for Poor People to get good and Healthy Foods in the first place, You assume that it's cheaper when it's not.

It is easy. They just won't do it.

Junk Food is more expensive then Good Food, I wasn't talking about that, Unhealthy Foods such as Canned Goods and Instant Ramen are much cheaper then healthy Food.

So what? The point is that the poor can afford good food, else all of our food aid programs for them are failures.

"No. The rich eat healthier because it's more important to them. The poor can eat just as healthily."
Yes they can, but it's much more Difficult, nice that you changed your stand on Rich vs Poor.

I've changed nothing. One problem is that the poor don't take advantage of their options. Most of the poor have the means of obtaining healthy foods. They just choose not to.

Poor people could take a lesson from the rich as well.
12 things rich people do that poor people don't

 

[szechuan]

"Food insecurity" is more of a political term than a meaningful one.

You're the one who said it

It is easy. They just won't do it.

If it's easy then everybody would do it, you are being dishonest.

So what? The point is that the poor can afford good food, else all of our food aid programs for them are failures.

Food Aid only helps so many, it's not a permanent solution, also not everybody has access to healthier options that are cheaper. Also As I've said Instant Foods are cheaper then healthy foods which I provided proof and you've ignored yet again.

I've changed nothing. One problem is that the poor don't take advantage of their options. Most of the poor have the means of obtaining healthy foods. They just choose not to.

You keep ignoring how much harder it is for poor people to be healthy.

Poor people could take a lesson from the rich as well.
12 things rich people do that poor people don't

Cool, well poor people don't have the Financial Security or Money to help them do those things often.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You're the one who said it

I didn't invent the term.

If it's easy then everybody would do it, you are being dishonest.

People do many things the hard way.

Food Aid only helps so many, it's not a permanent solution, also not everybody has access to healthier options that are cheaper. Also As I've said Instant Foods are cheaper then healthy foods which I provided proof and you've ignored yet again.

Food aid is a permanent solution. It is those who get it that aren't permanent.

You are ignoring the fact that the poor can afford good food, regardless of cheaper food being available. The SNAP program allotment is calculated to provide enough money for a healthy diet. Plus there are other great programs available for the poor in addition to SNAP. We have led the poor to the 'water' of good food. It is up to them to 'drink'.

You keep ignoring how much harder it is for poor people to be healthy.

Sure it is, but they must overcome the hurdles. We can't do it for them. I'm not going to ferry the poor from their 'food deserts' to the supermarket, but I would support a gov't transportation plan to do so.

Cool, well poor people don't have the Financial Security or Money to help them do those things often.

Those things don't cost money, just time and effort.

 

[szechuan]

Food aid is a permanent solution. It is those who get it that aren't permanent.

Food Aid a Permanent Solution? Since when? You're gonna tell me Charity is a permanent solution now? To world issues?

You are ignoring the fact that the poor can afford good food, regardless of cheaper food being available. The SNAP program allotment is calculated to provide enough money for a healthy diet. Plus there are other great programs available for the poor in addition to SNAP. We have led the poor to the 'water' of good food. It is up to them to 'drink'.

Again what's more affordable, instant noodles or fruits and veggies.

Those things don't cost money, just time and effort.

Money isn't the point, it's Financial Stability.

People do many things the hard way.

Nice Cop Out.

I didn't invent the term.

doesn't change the fact that you used it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Food Aid a Permanent Solution? Since when? You're gonna tell me Charity is a permanent solution now? To world issues?

Jesus said that the poor are always with us. Think about it.

Again what's more affordable, instant noodles or fruits and veggies.

Doesn't matter. Fruits and veggies are still affordable.

Money isn't the point, it's Financial Stability.

The poor don't need financial stability in order to exercise.

Nice Cop Out.

True nonetheless.

doesn't change the fact that you used it.

I didn't invent any of the words I use.

 

[szechuan]

Doesn't matter. Fruits and veggies are still affordable.

The most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Compared to Canned Chef Boyardee and Instant Noodles, Fruits and Veggies are not even Comparable nor Affordable.
If you can't accept that fact, then clearly I'm done here because you have No clue what you are talking about.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Compared to Canned Chef Boyardee and Instant Noodles, Fruits and Veggies are not even Comparable nor Affordable.
If you can't accept that fact, then clearly I'm done here because you have No clue what you are talking about.

I made a study a few months ago regarding the SNAP allotment. I found that I can eat healthy foods on the allotment alone. I do know what I'm talking about. You may know what you are talking about but you don't know what I'm talking about. G'bye.

 

[szechuan]

I made a study a few months ago regarding the SNAP allotment. I found that I can eat healthy foods on the allotment alone. I do know what I'm talking about. You may know what you are talking about but you don't know what I'm talking about. G'bye.

I'm talking about people who aren't on SNAP not every poor person is on one.
You clearly don't again, i'm talking about Affordability, you clearly don't know what that word means.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm talking about people who aren't on SNAP not every poor person is on one.
You clearly don't again, i'm talking about Affordability, you clearly don't know what that word means.

I think 50 million or more on SNAP and other programs covers most of the poor. How big is the red herring demographic you're referring to?

 

[szechuan]

I think 50 million or more on SNAP and other programs covers most of the poor. How big is the red herring demographic you're throwing against the wall?

40 million not 50.
Again, regardless It's about Affordability, you're the one throwing a Red Herring Claiming it's easy. In Pure Conservation in Food Stamps and Money Instant Noodles and Canned Foods are always much more affordable.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

40 million not 50.
Again, regardless It's about Affordability, you're the one throwing a Red Herring Claiming it's easy. In Pure Conservation in Food Stamps and Money Instant Noodles and Canned Foods are always much more affordable.

Closer to 50 million when the other food aid programs are included.

But I'm talking about the affordability of healthy food using public programs like SNAP. Studies have shown that 20 percent of SNAP money is spent on junk food. That's why Congress wants to reduce the allotment......by 20 percent.

The SNAP allotment for the poorest individual is $194/month, or $6.40 per day. A breakfast of 2 eggs, toast w/peanut butter, 8 oz milk, 1/2 banana, costs 85 cents where live. That leaves $2.77 for each of the other two meals.

A meat portion costs $1.50 (all amounts are average where I live.)
bread or roll with butter .25,
two vegetables @ .30 each,
8 oz. milk @.20
=$2.55 per meal, with enough left for an occasional apple, orange, or a dessert.

 

[szechuan]

But I'm talking about the affordability of healthy food using public programs like SNAP. Studies have shown that 20 percent of SNAP money is spent on junk food. That's why Congress wants to reduce the allotment......by 20 percent.

Compared to Cheap Foods Not Junk Food
Again Instant Noodles and Canned Foods is much more affordable then Fruits and Vegetables.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Compared to Cheap Foods Not Junk Food
Again Instant Noodles and Canned Foods is much more affordable then Fruits and Vegetables.

Many canned foods are quite nutritious, but expensive, and most are too salty. I eat spaghetti (noodles) once a week, but I jazz up the sauce with extra meat and olive oil.