A straightforward question; is God's love conditional or unconditional. And depending on your answer would this imply salvation is conditional? If so why?
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Is God's Love Conditional or Unconditional?
- Thread starter wendykvw
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d taylor
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God's love for humanity took away the sin of the world believers and unbelievers.
There is though only one condition (to receive Eternal Life, God's free gift) and that is to believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah from the prophecies of The Tanakh. Trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.
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com7fy8
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unconditional
no
God's love is unconditional, and this does not imply that salvation is conditional. God loves people unconditionally, but salvation is conditional on someone first trusting in Jesus > Ephesians 1:12.
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Grace is through faith. God loves each and everyone of us and He never lets go of us, but we let go of Him when we chose sin over God. God promises to destroy sin and sinners so the world can live in harmony the way God planned before sin entered. We are either a slave to God or a slave to selfishness (sin). One leads to righteousness, the other to destruction.
Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
It’s not God’s will that anyone should perish but He will never force someone to love Him. When you trust God with all your heart you have faith in what He asks and that its for our own good.
If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15 For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 Showing mercy to thousands who love Me and keep My commandments Exodus 20:6
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com7fy8
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Salvation is conditional on trusting Jesus.
But even if a person refuses Christ, still God loves the person.
It is like how you can care about a drug pusher, but the pusher can betray your love and keep getting more and more deep in trouble.
God is doing good for evil people, but they can keep ruining themselves, even actively getting away from people and things God provides for doing them good.
"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)
For example >
"God resists the proud" (in James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5).
God's resistance helps to keep evil people from getting hurt as much as they could; because God cares about all of us.
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God's love is unconditional.
God's terms for Salvation are conditional.
God's terms for Salvation are conditional.
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d taylor
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No his love is not limited, it was proven that God's love took away the sin of the world. And Eternal Life is offered to or available for anyone who wants Eternal Life. How is that limited love.
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What you essentially believe is God will love only those who love him. This is conditional love. Conditional love is not love at all.
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I will quote an Orthodox writer on my position
Ancestral Versus Original Sin: An Overview with Implications for Psychotherapy
by V. Rev. Antony Hughes, M.Div
St. Mary Antiochian Orthodox Church, Cambridge, Massachusetts
"...The Roman idea of justice found prominence in Augustinian and later Western theology. The idea that Adam and Eve offended God's infinite justice and honor made of death God's method of retribution (Romanides, 2002). But this idea of justice deviates from Biblical thought. Kalomiris (1980) explains the meaning of justice in the original Greek of the New Testament:
The Greek word diakosuni ‘justice', is a translation of the Hebrew word tsedaka. The word means ‘the divine energy which accomplishes man's salvation.' It is parallel and almost synonymous with the word hesed which means ‘mercy', ‘compassion', ‘love', and to the word emeth which means ‘fidelity', ‘truth'. This is entirely different from the juridical understanding of ‘justice'. (p. 31)
The juridical view of justice generates two problems for Augustine....
How then could God's anger be assuaged? The position of the ancient Church had no answer because its proponents did not see wrath as the problem....
The Orthodox understanding that "the resurrection...through Christ, opens for humanity the way of love that is stronger than death" (Clement, 1993, p. 87) is replaced by a juridical theory of courtrooms and verdicts.
......
Orthodoxy agrees that grace is a gift, but one that is given to all not to a chosen few. For Grace is an uncreated energy of God sustaining all creation apart from which nothing can exist (Psalm 104:29). What is more, though grace sustains humanity, salvation cannot be forced upon us (or withheld) by divine decree. Clement points out that the "Greek fathers (and some of the Latin Fathers), according to whom the creation of humanity entailed a real risk on God's part, laid the emphasis on salvation through love: ‘God can do anything except force a man to love him'. The gift of grace saves, but only in an encounter of love" (Clement, 1993, p. 81). Orthodox theology holds that divine grace must be joined with human volition."
Ancestral Versus Original Sin | St. Mary Orthodox Church of Central Square in Cambridge, Massachusetts
Ancestral Versus Original Sin: An Overview with Implications for Psychotherapy
by V. Rev. Antony Hughes, M.Div
St. Mary Antiochian Orthodox Church, Cambridge, Massachusetts
"...The Roman idea of justice found prominence in Augustinian and later Western theology. The idea that Adam and Eve offended God's infinite justice and honor made of death God's method of retribution (Romanides, 2002). But this idea of justice deviates from Biblical thought. Kalomiris (1980) explains the meaning of justice in the original Greek of the New Testament:
The Greek word diakosuni ‘justice', is a translation of the Hebrew word tsedaka. The word means ‘the divine energy which accomplishes man's salvation.' It is parallel and almost synonymous with the word hesed which means ‘mercy', ‘compassion', ‘love', and to the word emeth which means ‘fidelity', ‘truth'. This is entirely different from the juridical understanding of ‘justice'. (p. 31)
The juridical view of justice generates two problems for Augustine....
How then could God's anger be assuaged? The position of the ancient Church had no answer because its proponents did not see wrath as the problem....
The Orthodox understanding that "the resurrection...through Christ, opens for humanity the way of love that is stronger than death" (Clement, 1993, p. 87) is replaced by a juridical theory of courtrooms and verdicts.
......
Orthodoxy agrees that grace is a gift, but one that is given to all not to a chosen few. For Grace is an uncreated energy of God sustaining all creation apart from which nothing can exist (Psalm 104:29). What is more, though grace sustains humanity, salvation cannot be forced upon us (or withheld) by divine decree. Clement points out that the "Greek fathers (and some of the Latin Fathers), according to whom the creation of humanity entailed a real risk on God's part, laid the emphasis on salvation through love: ‘God can do anything except force a man to love him'. The gift of grace saves, but only in an encounter of love" (Clement, 1993, p. 81). Orthodox theology holds that divine grace must be joined with human volition."
Ancestral Versus Original Sin | St. Mary Orthodox Church of Central Square in Cambridge, Massachusetts
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God loves every human. Only those who have been Washed can stand to be in the presence of His Holiness, even if He just wanted to give them a hug.
And [Moses] said,
“Please, show me Your glory.”
Then [God] said,“I will make all My goodness pass before you, and
I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you.
I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and
I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
But He said,I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you.
I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and
I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
“You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”
And the Lord said,“Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock.
So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock,
and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.
Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back;
but My face shall not be seen.” Exodus 33:18-23 NKJV
So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock,
and will cover you with My hand while I pass by.
Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back;
but My face shall not be seen.” Exodus 33:18-23 NKJV
And Moses was considered the "best friend" of God...!
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That is a false dichotomy. Salvation has limits.
Are You Washed In The Blood? (Joey + Rory)
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Humanity is estranged from God due to the trespass of Adam.
In earthly terms if my 30 yr. old daughter was estranged from me it would be my unconditional love that would draw her back to me. God, the Father of the universe does this very same thing. We can protest but in the end His unconditional love will draw back everyone back to their Heaven Father.
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- Jun 12, 2020
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You seemed to have not read my post. Not sure why anyone would want to do the very least possible to be saved, instead of doing what God asks because you love Him.
Jesus makes it clear that those who do not do the will of the Father will not enter into Heaven. Matthew 7:21-23. I think this teaching that we can do whatever we want and be saved is leading many people down the wrong path. Matthew 7:13-14 Hebrews 10:26-30 Revelation 22:14-15
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Hello Wendy, for clarity's sake, does this "drawing back" of EVERYONE by the Father mean that ~ALL~, without exception, will be justified and saved (at least eventually anyway)?
Thanks!
--David
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