Is God Three, or Two?

[interpreter]

The word Bible is not found in the scriptures either. Is there a good reason for that as well? That is a logical fallacy, argument from silence. I can say, There is one God! The father is God but he is not the son or the holy spirit. The son is God but he is not the father or the holy spirit. The holy spirit is God but he is not the son or the father. There is one God. Or I can say "Trinity."

Too bad for your argument there is no credible, verifiable, historical evidence for anti-trinitarian churches until the late 19th century; JW, LDS, UU, OP, SDA, WWCG, kristadelfian, etc.

I don't know anything about the teachings of JW, LDS or any of the other cults you mentioned. I said what I did because there are 7 holy spirits, not one.

 

[stranger]

I don't know anything about the teachings of JW, LDS or any of the other cults you mentioned. I said what I did because there are 7 holy spirits, not one.

There are other spirits of God mentioned in scripture too, equally needing to be counted if one has some bizarre urge to try to count the countless spirits of God [including that given every human being which returns to God at death]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

How about the evil spirit from God that most want to deny even exists , many unable to see that God uses even all evil for sake of good in the end which cannot be achieved any other way :-

Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit ...

1 Samuel 16:23 ...when the evil spirit from God was ...

--- equally, why count only one son of God , when all saints are equally son's of God with Jesus ?

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

or how about the obedient few Israelites of old too , long before Jesus came ? :-

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

It is bizarre enough that trinitarians count two discrete, separate, different kings of 'things' in their
myth and call the spirit a person as if God is a human being ... rather than Jesus showing us perfect love by means of God's spirit, by which we can know God through him...
It is bizarre enough that they think God is spirit, but think the spirit of God is different than God ..
but it is beyond belief that they count sons of God and find only one in defiance of scripture they say the believe, bizarre that they think there is only one spirit of God when scripture describes so many , and just incomprehensible that they can not only claim that three persons are one 'something' [person, spirit , God ???] and not see that their 'mystery' of three being ons is comprehensively shown by scripture to only be their mistaken belief...

But why do they care even ??? Why should they persecute and segregate folks [as even this site does] who see through the nonsense and try to help them see their beliefs in light of scripture they say they believe ???

 

[Der Alte]

I don't know anything about the teachings of JW, LDS or any of the other cults you mentioned. I said what I did because there are 7 holy spirits, not one.

Perhaps you did not read my post and the scripture I cited. The "seven spirits" are not literally spirits.

Or we could actually read Revelation in context.

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.​

There is another reference in the O.T. to seven spirits.

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD [1] shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom [2] and understanding, [3] the spirit of counsel [4]and might, [5] the spirit of knowledge [6]and of the fear of the LORD.[7]​

Except for the "the spirit of the Lord" none are literal spirits and certainly not sentient beings, as the spirit of the Lord, who has a "self", speaks, sends, is sent, counsels, guides, comforts, can be quenched, etc.

 

[Doveaman]

I can say, There is one God! The father is God but he is not the son or the holy spirit. The son is God but he is not the father or the holy spirit. The holy spirit is God but he is not the son or the father. There is one God. Or I can say "Trinity."

Too bad for your argument there is no credible, verifiable, historical evidence for anti-trinitarian churches until the late 19th century; JW, LDS, UU, OP, SDA, WWCG, kristadelfian, etc.

I can't speak for the others, but I'm assuming that by "WWCG" you are referring to the World Wide Church of God. If you are, this church has long since changed their doctrines and their name, and now believes in the Trinity.

 

[Doveaman]

There are other spirits of God mentioned in scripture too, equally needing to be counted if one has some bizarre urge to try to count the countless spirits of God [including that given every human being which returns to God at death]
How about the evil spirit from God that most want to deny even exists , many unable to see that God uses even all evil for sake of good in the end

The spirit of God does not necessarily mean the spirit is God. God is one divine Spirit who has sovereign authority over all spirits, including human spirits and evil spirits. Therefore all spirits belong to God and He commands them as He so wishes:

"Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits" - Heb 12:9.

"He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey Him." - Mark 1:2.

equally, why count only one son of God , when all saints are equally son's of God with Jesus ?

There is a difference. Jesus was conceived by the Spirit of God and is therefore God. Saints are created in the image of God and are therefore gods.

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'" - Ps 82:6

It is bizarre enough that trinitarians count two discrete, separate, different kings of 'things' in their
myth and call the spirit a person as if God is a human being

God is a person in that He has a personality of His own and is personal in His own divine way.

"How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are!" - 1 John 3:1.

 

[Der Alte]

I can't speak for the others, but I'm assuming that by "WWCG" you are referring to the World Wide Church of God. If you are, this church has long since changed their doctrines and their name, and now believes in the Trinity.

Yes I am aware that since the death of the founder, Herbert Armstrong, many within the church, about 1/4 according to your link, have become more mainline but a significant number cling to the teachings of the founder.

 

[Der Alte]

No, I was not implying that I knew more than all trinitarian scholars. I don't agree with some of the meteorologists who believe that lightning strikes originate in the ground and go upward to the sky. But I don't think that I know more than they just because I don't believe them about that particular thing.

I’ll have some sugar free syrup with those waffles. You did NOT say that some Trinitarian scholars were wrong about some things. You said, "But the [scholars] who are trinitarians are all wrong."

You asked me to prove with scripture that the church is not an organized body. I gave you the scripture (Matthew 16:18), .

Matt 16:18 says nothing either way about the church being an organized body!

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.​

and asked you to show me the church that Jesus built if it is an organized, physical body. All you could do was go into an anti - JW, LDS, UU, OP, SDA WWCG , the Christadelphians, etc. rant. Now, if, as you seem to believe, the church is an organized visible church, please point it out to me and tell me what place in the world it is located. .

I answered your question you blew it off as a rant. If the church was not an organized body all the epistles could not have been addressed to them to be read to specific churches. If the church was not an organized body it would not have had designated leaders.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.​

If the church was not an organized body people could not be brought before it for correction.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.​

If the church was not an organized body it could not meet regularly.

1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.​

No one is saying that the church that Jesus built did disappear for 2000 years just because they do not believe the trinity doctrine. For believing the trinity doctrine is hardly the criteria that must be met in order to be a member of it. The church that Jesus built is not comprised of those who believe the trinity doctrine. Jesus never taught this, nor did he ever instruct his apostles to teach this. .

Then you should have no problem showing me credible, verifiable, historical evidence for a church that believed essentially as you do between 90 AD, when the NT was completed and the late 19th century. That church should be clearly visible shouting the gospel from the rooftops.

Mat 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.​

But it is comprised of those who have no other God before the Almighty God, and who love their neighbors as themselves. And of those who do unto others as they would have others do unto them. This church has never, and will never, disappear from the view of those who see it with a spiritual mind and spiritual eyes.

Jesus never said anything about his church only being visible to so-called “spiritual mind and spiritual eyes” It doesn’t take a so-called “spiritual mind and spiritual eyes.” to hear and see the gospel being preached “upon the housetops.” Also how can a lost world be led to the Lord if they can’t even see his church?

It would take more than 200 posts for you to address all 62 scriptures that you claim show Jesus to be God. And you have not done any such as this.

The scripture themselves address or refer to Jesus as God as I have shown. All you are doing is saying “You’re wrong! Are too! Nuh Huh!”

I really don't know what it would mean if a 'devout Jew addressed someone as "My God, or the God of me' as I do not believe that Thomas was addressing Jesus as such. There really is not enough of the dialogue between Jesus and Thomas recorded in John 20:27-29 to be able to come to any reasonable conclusion concerning this. I have to wonder if all of the original text is presented here.

The standard anti-Trinitarian cop-out. When scripture as written contradicts their teachings they are blown off as “figurative,” “incomplete”, or some such nonsense. You have a Bible, the phrase “my God” occurs at least 125 times in the O.T. and it always refers to YHWH. When Jesus said, “My God, My God” from the cross who did he mean? Who did Paul mean when he used the exact same words Thomas did, ο θεος μου/the God of me in 2 Cor 12;21 and Phi 4:19. Do the exact same words mean two different things in these verses than they mean in John 20:28?

2Co 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Phi 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.​

Thomas was not in disbelief that Jesus was God. His disbelief was all about Jesus coming back from the dead and being alive again. And It makes no sense to me that Thomas, or any other devout Jew would be convinced that Jesus was God simply by seeing or feeling the nail holes in his very human hands and the wound in his very human side. I can understand how this would convince him that this was indeed the same Jesus whom he had seen crucified and entombed, but I do not believe that Thomas or any other of his disciples believed that they had been walking with the Almighty God all that time. That is quite unbelievable.

Observe how many times your argument falls back on what you “think,””believe,””suppose, “makes no sense” to you, etc. Your response presupposes that Thomas could not possibly understand, and Jesus did not show, more than that Jesus had risen from the dead. Logical fallacy, argument from silence.

I did not ignore what you presented about Peter 1:1 and Titus 2:13. I wouldn't know what else you would want me to say regarding it, other than that I do not agree with your presentation.

Notice how you blew off 90+ pages of scholarship with 7 words, and zero discussion, “I do not agree with your presentation.” You very probably didn’t even read it. Yet you keep demanding that I give you similar discussion for the other 61 verses I posted. To what purpose? So you can ignore it.

Are we not told that Jesus reigned for a time and then after all his enemies had been subdued he would hand the kingdom back to the Father? (1Cor. 15:24-28) Of course it is the throne of God and of the Lamb. The throne was God's from the beginning. He turned it over to the Son for a season, and it was returned to him when his will was accomplished. Is it so hard to understand why it would be called the throne of God and of the Lamb, since they both (at different times) had sat on it?

The scripture does not say the lamb and God sat on the throne at different times, in fact Jesus said he sat on the throne with the father. And scripture does not say the throne was God’s and the lamb’s at different times. Also I posted scripture that although Jesus “delivered up the kingdom to God,” Jesus also reigned for ever and ever. Conveniently ignored by you. So you might want to go back and try to harmonize your proof text with the rest of the Bible. For example, these verses.

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.​

I did not concoct any temple in heaven.

Rev. 11:1 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod, and the angel stood saying Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out and measure it not, for it is given unto the Gentiles and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

Rev. 11:19. "And the temple of God was opened IN HEAVEN and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament and there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail."

It was a vision! Not reality! So get over it, and move on, Der.

Vision or not John saw something and he wrote as if it was literal, he was directed to measure the temple and the temple in vs. 11:19 was not in the holy city and the Gentiles did not trample it under foot for 3 1/2 years, vs. 11:1!

 

[Doveaman]

Yes I am aware that since the death of the founder, Herbert Armstrong, many within the church, about 1/4 according to your link, have become more mainline but a significant number cling to the teachings of the founder.

Yes, but they no longer go by the name WWCG. Each splinter group have its own name:

• Philadelphia Church of God
• Living Church of God
• Restored Church of God
• Intercontinental Church of God
• United Church of God
• Church of God's Faithful
• Independent Church of God
• Church of God, An International Community
• Christian Biblical Church of God
• Many other groups

Some congregations of GCI still go by the name WWCG even though they have become more mainline, including congregations in the UK and New Zealand, so calling WWCG a cult or anti-trinitarian is misleading.

 

[Der Alte]

Yes, but they no longer go by the name WWCG. Each splinter group have its own name:

• Philadelphia Church of God
• Living Church of God
• Restored Church of God
• Intercontinental Church of God
• United Church of God
• Church of God's Faithful
• Independent Church of God
• Church of God, An International Community
• Christian Biblical Church of God
• Many other groups

Some congregations of GCI still go by the name WWCG even though they have become more mainline, including congregations in the UK and New Zealand, so calling WWCG a cult or anti-trinitarian is misleading.

OK so I'll say pre-'89 WWCG. My point is there is little to none evidence for any anti-Trinitarian body prior to the late 19th century when the named groups sprung up, under their respective charismatic leaders.

 

[stranger]

The spirit of God does not necessarily mean the spirit is God. God is one divine Spirit who has sovereign authority over all spirits, including human spirits and evil spirits. Therefore all spirits belong to God and He commands them as He so wishes:

"Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits" - Heb 12:9.

"He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey Him." - Mark 1:2.

They obey Him because God is one spirit, there is no other spirit, the spirit is not divisible but men see it only in part so make the mistake that god did not make good and evil for His purpose , even the saints are chastised with terrible evil [even unjust crucifixion as Jesus] to test their love, perfect it , in baptism of 'fire'

Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

No spirit disobeys God, evil spirits are sent for sake of good in the end

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

One cannot divide the spirit , it is one, it is the basis of existence from which physical reality is created , it is more fundamental than what we consider is reality we see... all apparent division on earth is resolved before the end of the new earth for there is no third earth [physical realm] only one spirit, the third heaven, paradise, immortality of the tee of life , garden of Eden, as revealed by Paul... no division , one spirit of all as one...

There is a difference. Jesus was conceived by the Spirit of God and is therefore God. Saints are created in the image of God and are therefore gods.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Saints are baptised of the holy spirit of God , they are one spirit with God, just as Jesus is, and no different as sons of God by just ONE spirit


"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'" - Ps 82:6

God is a person in that He has a personality of His own and is personal in His own divine way.

"How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are!" - 1 John 3:1.

The personality [from the Latin 'persona', a mask] is just a mask , as any general Psychology book will tell one ... God has no mask , which is why He is so dangerous to sinners , takes their lives if they come before him because all sin is so filthy to God , not the pure love He commands as supreme being of any who come near Him

God is STRAIGHT , not a mask like humans hiding from conscience and heart of love God gave all in knowledge of good and evil [chosen by Adam for all mankind]... only man has a personality to hide from the truth of God with for a while...
God needs not to hide from God's truth, He is that truth, STRAIGHT, no mask, no personality of mealy words and gestures covering the filth of disbelief in love that lets men sin...

Sadly sinners cannots ee that it is only sin that separates them from God, and some folks use their personality to even pretend they are holy whilst continuing to sin... sin is unloving and only possible by using a mask , God has no need of a mask, indeed God is required by us not to have a mask and indeed has none... no personality, just raw hard TRUTH that love, not sin, is the only way to be with God in the spirit ... all sin is unloving and God thus commands men to stop sinning , whereupon their past sin is forgiven by MERCY [e.g.Ezek 18:20-21] clearly God cannot forgive future sin and a righteous man who then sins is just as much a sinner as a man who never stopped being unloving ...
our personality is thus what separates us from God, our means to remain sinners and refuse to be loving as He requires ... it is thus a trick of Satan to picture God as an man-like idol with a personality ...God is spirit and man is made in God's image, only Satan would say God is made in [sinful] man's image ...

it is not that hard to see the fawning personality of sinners for what it is, a lie ... equally the saints are STRAIGHT , no mask, just lovingness like Jesus , who could need a mask but sinners, why should a saint hide the holy spirit inside behind a mask of personality... the whole idea that man is not spirit in essence , made in the image of God who is spirit, is of Satan, not God... one will find no justificaton of such a notion in scripture of God...

 

[Doveaman]

OK so I'll say pre-'89 WWCG. My point is there is little to none evidence for any anti-Trinitarian body prior to the late 19th century when the named groups sprung up, under their respective charismatic leaders.

Yes, I understood your point.

 

[stranger]

OK so I'll say pre-'89 WWCG. My point is there is little to none evidence for any anti-Trinitarian body prior to the late 19th century when the named groups sprung up, under their respective charismatic leaders.

Trinity makes no sense as explained above and is non-scriptural , why should anyone bother to oppose nonsense believed by divided denominations of sinners led by sinners in defiance of the unity of truth of the holy spirit and scripture ?

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[Der Alte]

Trinity makes no sense as explained above and is non-scriptural , why should anyone bother to oppose nonsense believed by divided denominations of sinners led by sinners in defiance of the unity of truth of the holy spirit and scripture ?

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

How does this one out-of-context scripture relate to me? I don't believe that Paul was crucified for me and I was not baptized in the name of Paul. Tell me again which "undivided" anti-Trinitarian religious group you belong to that did not exist prior to 1845? Does being anti-Trinitarian make you right? How many "undivided" anti-Trinitarian groups exist today that began about that same time; LDS, SDA, JW, pe-'89 WWCG, UU, OP, kristadelfian, etc?

 

[stranger]

How does this one out-of-context scripture relate to me? I don't believe that Paul was crucified for me and I was not baptized in the name of Paul. Tell me again which "undivided" anti-Trinitarian religious group you belong to that did not exist prior to 1845? Does being anti-Trinitarian make you right? How many "undivided" anti-Trinitarian groups exist today that began about that same time; LDS, SDA, JW, pe-'89 WWCG, UU, OP, kristadelfian, etc?

The scripture relates to anyone who believes that divided 'christianity' can all be of Christ
The assumption that saints go around in groups any longer is unsustainable .
The assumption that all sinners ['religious' or not]are not led by Satan is denied by John and others :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

As for making this a personal debate, no thanks... stick with discussing the scripture

 

[Der Alte]

The scripture relates to anyone who believes that divided 'christianity' can all be of Christ
The assumption that saints go around in groups any longer is unsustainable .

I don't see any scripture supporting these assertions!

The assumption that all sinners ['religious' or not]are not led by Satan is denied by John and others :-
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

False accusation! Nobody here has said anything like "all sinners ['religious' or not]are not led by Satan." So it looks like we got some sinning right here in your post!

As for making this a personal debate, no thanks... stick with discussing the scripture.

If you don't want to make it personal then stop trying to condemn me, and others here, with random out-of-context scripture!

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.​

The church that Jesus built has been in continuous existence, preaching from the housetops, since he spoke 2000 years ago. I am and have been a part of that church for many decades. Anyone who claims otherwise is calling Jesus a liar.

Looks like we got another Jim Jones, David Koresh claiming that the church has been wrong for 2000 years and that he has some special, secret, esoteric revelation from God, that us ordinary mortals don't have.

Edited to add: Here is something I accidentally ran across preparing for Bible study. When your new fangled revelation starts doing this and has these results, let me know.

. . . . .Angola Prison in Louisiana is one of the largest and most formidable maximum security institutions in the United States. The vast inmate population serving life sentences has no hope for a future. Several years ago, the prison hired a new warden who was a Christian. As he assumed his new position, he had no idea what God intended for that dismal, hopeless place. One day, a prisoner was executed for his crimes. The Holy Spirit convicted the warden that he did not know if the convict had been a Christian, but he had assisted in ushering the man into eternity.
. . . . .The warden sensed God wanting to use him to bring hope and salvation to the prison residents. His church had been going through Experiencing God, and he decided to make the study available to every inmate who wanted to take the course. It was also offered to all those on death row.
. . . . .God began to transform lives through the study. Many of those awaiting execution became Christians. In fact, so many prisoners were becoming Christians that seven different congregations were begun throughout the prison with inmates serving as pastors. Violence and drug use in the prison was dramatically curtailed. As the inmates completed Experiencing God, they began to do other Bible studies. Some of the men even sensed God calling them into Christian ministry!
. . . . .Ultimately, a theological seminary began to provide training to the inmates and made the prison an official satellite campus. Some of the residents felt called to missions. As a result, these prisoners asked to be transferred to other prisons where they began leading Bible studies and leading fellow convicts to faith in Christ. These inmates were making such a positive impact on the prison population that wardens from across the country began asking Angola Prison to transfer some of their transformed prisoners to them!

Experiencing God, Henry and Richard Blackaby, Nashville TN, 2008, pg. 52-53​

 

[stranger]

Originally Posted by Der Alter

OK so I'll say pre-'89 WWCG. My point is there is little to none evidence for any anti-Trinitarian body prior to the late 19th century when the named groups sprung up, under their respective charismatic leaders.
​

I think Origen had quite a following
​

 

[Superfast]

god is one, not 2 not 3 not 10 not any number other than one.

thus says the word of God.

 

[stranger]

god is one, not 2 not 3 not 10 not any number other than one.
thus says the word of God.

True indeed...

but the problem highlighted by this thread is that God presents Himself to men as the separate [holy] godhead, the person of Jesus showing us that his love shows us God [insofar as any man can , demonstrating the physical aspects of love, its ability to overcome all sin, and the miracles beyond most physical knowledge of the spirit of truth of God] and the holy spirit of Truth that can enter a man and change his will from will to sin to will to love by means solely of the truth about love...

Some strangely stop counting aspects of God there and proclaim that it proves 'God is three persons' , but frankly there is only one person mentioned , Jesus , and there are 144,000 begotten sons of God even in this world who are the image of Christ because they stop sinning , that before counting the many other sons of God in scripture who will later become sinless too and uncountable many [Rev 7:9-10] saved in the kingdom come... let alone the many other spirits of God mentioned in scripture...

The strange things are then that we know God is spirit and yet many claim the godhead is a person and different than the person of Christ... I truly see no scriptural basis for this claim whatever , God is one spirit that did manifest as the person Jesus and was resurrected as the person Jesus, and was later translated to spirit again..

but then many claim the spirit of God is different than God the spirit and both these are different persons...

Well it is strange invention to me , the scripture says no such thing ...

God has many aspects seen by men , and God's holy spirit has done and will manifest in many persons [all persons in the end of time]

Nowhere is there any three-ness or three persons , it just doesn't exist in scripture at all

All aspects of God are ONE , that scripture says over and over again ... never limited to three aspects, never three persons ... I just can't understand how anyone believes this, but still more staggering is that some folks EXCLUDE others who refuse to pretend this is true... even segregate as in the apartheid of this site on basis of this supposedly important belief ... but I don't even see what one gains by believing God is three persons, how could it help you in becoming loving in obedience to God ???? ... all it achieves is that it makes many folks UNLOVING to others , as on this site ... that just makes no sense at all , it is contrary to all Jesus taught ... about what is important, love , for which the ONE God of all men stands ...

 

[Der Alte]

I think Origen had quite a following

And?

 

[stranger]

And?

and no there

And?

and no there is no evidence of any concept of 'trinity' in his work ... also he believed in salvation of all creation as does Jesus who never taught anything about trinity either and had quite a following :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

since there is no mention of such a concept , one can reasonably assume it is of no consequence , as indeed is obvious from the above logical analysis that it doesn't even make sense conceptually or scripturally ...

So tell me what possible use is there for this idea besides divisiveness and unlovingness to some folks [in disobedience to Christ] is no evidence of any concept of 'trinity' in his work ... also he believed in salvation of all creation as does Jesus who never taught anything about trinity either and had quite a following :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

since there is no mention of such a concept , one can reasonably assume it is of no consequence , as indeed is obvious from the above logical analysis that it doesn't even make sense conceptually or scripturally ...