Is God Real?

Girder of Loins

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Well, what you define as "random" I was guessing were quantum particles. At that point, it comes down to someone's view of "universe". If we use your definition, then quantum particles do exist within the universe, but if we defined it as "space-time", then quantum particles technically do not exist within the universe and, therefore, the universe contains no random patterns.
 
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Shane Plew

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Well, what you define as "random" I was guessing were quantum particles. At that point, it comes down to someone's view of "universe". If we use your definition, then quantum particles do exist within the universe, but if we defined it as "space-time", then quantum particles technically do not exist within the universe and, therefore, the universe contains no random patterns.

Well, I'm under the impression that if it were possible to know everything then it would be possible to predict everything. If quantum particles are truly random, then that idea is obviously wrong. I'm not so sure that they don't just seem random because we don't understand them. I don't know or understand either way. I also don't think that we can ever understand the universe completely, nor can we understand anything completely. What I meant by everything happens at random is they do not happen for a reason. Sure they have causes, but they do not have any purpose.

I'm still not allowed to debate the existence of God yet because I am on probation for one more month. Please don't say that because there is semi-observable order, God must be real. I can't respond to that, because if I do, I will be permanently banned, again.
 
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Shane Plew

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Well, what you define as "random" I was guessing were quantum particles. At that point, it comes down to someone's view of "universe". If we use your definition, then quantum particles do exist within the universe, but if we defined it as "space-time", then quantum particles technically do not exist within the universe and, therefore, the universe contains no random patterns.

Also, I would personally just say that I we don't know exactly what the universe is. We can't just go saying things are true or false if we really don't know enough about the factors that make them true or false.
 
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Girder of Loins

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That would be a stupid argument to make. Let's say I throw some coins up in the air, and half land heads, and half land tails. There is an order to that end, but the event itself was random. So saying that order in a result insinuates a non-random event is illogical. However, just because something is questionable doesn't make it false, it just makes it questionable.
 
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Shane Plew

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That would be a stupid argument to make. Let's say I throw some coins up in the air, and half land heads, and half land tails. There is an order to that end, but the event itself was random. So saying that order in a result insinuates a non-random event is illogical. However, just because something is questionable doesn't make it false, it just makes it questionable.

I was mainly talking to Chany when I asked not to pose that argument. I think that is where he was going with the question he posed to me earlier.

I agree with what you said here. I would also like to add that it doesn't make it true because it isn't necessarily false.
 
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Shane Plew

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It suggests the universe must have a cause, therefore an uncaused cause must have caused it. Why does that supposed uncauseed cause get the special exception to the rule that the argument claims? Why not the coming into being of the universe itself? What leads you to the conclusion that the uncaused cause is God, or any kind of being for that matter?
 
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arvbuddy

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I already understand that, from where I am posting this, the majority of responses that I will read are out to prove, or acknowledge the existence of God. Personally, I'd love for God to exist. I really don't want to lose the people I love and cease to exist when I die. However, no matter how much I want this to be true, there are just so many things that don't line up. As a result of these conflicting feelings, I consider myself agnostic, and wanted to come here to see why so many people follow the teachings of this religion, and maybe even find a reason to get behind it. Below, I'm just going to outline a few of my concerns and maybe I can get some answers.

This following point is probably my biggest concern. I'm sixteen years old, and never in my entire life have I ever gotten a sign of Gods existence. Now I know some people would like to argue that the Bible should be considered a sign, but I don't consider it one at all. With thousands of religions out there, and with a large percentage of them containing some sort of scripture, arguing that text is a sign of that religions validity is absurd. I mean, if every religion argues that their scripture is proof, then where does that leave me? It puts me right back at step one, with no direction at all. This leads me to another point I can't wrap my head around: if God won't give me sign of his existence, but will also punish me for not choosing the right religion, do I really want to follow God anyway? I can't help but feel that it's extremely unfair that I am given so many choices, but that I am also punished for not choosing the right one. Assuming that God does exist, I almost feel that if he's going to damn me for eternity because I couldn't blindly choose the right religion that I guess I belong in Hell. I mean I'm a considerate, kind, loving person that would make sacrifices for anyone in a heartbeat, but I'm still damned for eternity because I'm not the best at blindly ciphering which faith to follow? I guess Hell is where those nice people belong then.

A few smaller questions I have is, what is the point in the existence of our universe if we are the only life in it? Why do we need food to live? Why do we get sick? Why do people all over the world suffer? I have many, many more questions, but I could spend days asking them, so I guess I'll just put this out there and see if anyone has anything to say.

Thanks in advance,

Jared

It looks like nobody has actually answered it yet. I actually gave my life when I was 15, and it was only because I felt the actual presence of God, but that's not where we're going. To answer the big question.

God does NOT send people to Hell. To Him, we are all His lost children, and He is frantically searching for us. Can you imagine losing your little girl? You'd do everything to be reunited with her! And the joy that would come when you were! That is us. We are the little girl that is lost, and He is the father searching everywhere. He wants us so badly to be with Him, but He can't force us. He has given us a choice.

To explain the statement that He doesn't send people to Hell. Picture a road. Now this road is the road to be with God. This is His road, and He's watching over it. You are born and grow up, and you don't ever decide to follow Jesus. You're not on this road of His, but on a separate path. The path you are on doesn't lead to Heaven, but it leads to Hell. God wants you so badly to come to Him, but in a metaphorical sense, "He can't see you," because you're not on His road. You're not on the ONLY road leading to Heaven and to be with God. He isn't sending you anywhere. He doesn't send you to Heaven. You have the free will to decide what road you are going to be walking down, and if you happen to die and you weren't on that road of His. God's road. Then He won't be there to protect you from Satan taking you to Hell.

Satan, the Devil, the Enemy, whatever you would like to call him. He is after you. He hates all of God's creation for what God did to him. That is why he tempted Adam and Eve to sin. (I don't believe the world is 6,000 years old, nor do I believe that they were the first humans, as if you read in Genesis 4, you would know they were NOT, but that's for another time) Pain, suffering, death? That is all Satan's work to hurt God, because with every death, God cries out at the loss of a child. With the fall of Adam and Eve, the curse was brought upon us. Spiritual death, that is Heaven or Hell. If we are not following Jesus, then Satan can steal us away because God isn't there to protect us. God can only protect the ones that decided to come into His territory.

Did I describe it well enough for you? I tried my best, it's harder to put my thoughts together on a computer haha :)

Now to go on about the rules. Rules, rules, rules. Get rid of them. Don't listen to them. yet, anyways. Religion is about following rules, but Christianity isn't meant to be a religion, but a Way. The Way is what it was called. We are to accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour. That is to say we accept He died for us and paid for our sins, now He is our Lord. He is our teacher. We are to follow Him. He says to above all else, love. When you love, then everything will follow. So don't focus on the rules, but focus on Jesus. When you do, eventually you will want to follow them, because it will make you happy to grow closer to God!


Now I just turned 17 last month. I've been a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, for a year and a half now. If you want anything more explained, you can pm me. So anything I didn't make clear, or anything else you want to know, and I will try to answer it to the best of my ability! God bless!
 
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Chany

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Alright, the claim is:

The cosmological argument contains a self contradiction. It holds the first cause to a special set of standards, begging the question of creation.

I will hold that this statement is false and is brought upon by an incorrect interpretation of the argument, mostly likely due to poor presentation on the part of someone trying to use it to defend the existence of God.

Before I begin, I would like to note that my philosophical terminology is rusty, so I may use a term incorrectly and use a different term than the norm. I'm sorry in advance.

The question is, "what is the origin of a being's existence?" Let's consider the possibilities:

1. Something caused itself into existence.

2. Something came from nothing.

3. Something was always existing.

4. Something was a caused into existence by another cause.

Are there any possibilities besides these anyone would like to add?
 
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I believe miracles and prayer are proof of God's existence - or at least proof of a higher power of some sort. I definitely think I have experienced the effects of prayer, and I think that some things that have happened in my life are either an absurdly unlikely coincidence or the work of a benevolent Creator watching over me. This is why I believe in God.
 
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Shane Plew

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I believe miracles and prayer are proof of God's existence - or at least proof of a higher power of some sort. I definitely think I have experienced the effects of prayer, and I think that some things that have happened in my life are either an absurdly unlikely coincidence or the work of a benevolent Creator watching over me. This is why I believe in God.

Nice name. At least someone knows what agnostic means. Have you ever prayed for something and not gotten it? If so, then how do you know that it isn't complete random. You are not actually told 'no' by God when you ask for something. There is no way to confirm that the random things that happened are not complete chance. I've had some stupidly coincidental things happen too. I didn't ask for them and they still happened. I think that most of the things that people think of as unlikely are really not all that unlikely at all. Also, why would you pick the Christian god over all of the others. They can all pose the same valid arguments a Christian can, so why not believe in their god?
 
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Pallas

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Alright, the claim is:

The cosmological argument contains a self contradiction. It holds the first cause to a special set of standards, begging the question of creation.

I will hold that this statement is false and is brought upon by an incorrect interpretation of the argument, mostly likely due to poor presentation on the part of someone trying to use it to defend the existence of God.

Before I begin, I would like to note that my philosophical terminology is rusty, so I may use a term incorrectly and use a different term than the norm. I'm sorry in advance.

The question is, "what is the origin of a being's existence?" Let's consider the possibilities:

1. Something caused itself into existence.

2. Something came from nothing.

3. Something was always existing.

4. Something was a caused into existence by another cause.

Are there any possibilities besides these anyone would like to add?
The Big Bang/Crunch happens over and over, preserving matter and energy, and by amazing chance, the right elements bond and grow into what we see today.
 
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Chany

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The Big Bang/Crunch happens over and over, preserving matter and energy, and by amazing chance, the right elements bond and grow into what we see today.

Are you describing a loop where the same thing happens over and over in the universe, or that the universe constantly dies and gets reborn (so to speak)?
 
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Etheri

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It is my belief that everyone worships "God". Atheists worship His structure and organization. Christians worship a view of "God". Buddhists worship a view of "God". Muslims worship a view of "God". Study each worldview carefully, weighing in on what contradicts what, and what reinforces another, and find what works for you. May you find Truth in your journeys!

Budha said there is no God and people worship him loooooooooool
 
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Girder of Loins

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Budha said there is no God and people worship him loooooooooool

False. Buddhists don't "worship" a Buddha, they follow him. Every Buddhist wishes to reach Enlightenment, which is not contingent upon any Buddha. There are a lot of Buddhas in Buddhism, Christ is actually one of them.
 
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Charbel7

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Guys, Please.. Do me a favor.. If you don't know what are you talking about please don't talk.

Sometimes It's better to stay silent than talking (That's what i'm not doing right now - I'm Talking)

Calm down, Take a deep breath, Relax, Think.

God has created human with minds, But the problem is that the human doesn't want to think and want to refuse everything he hears.

Please stop asking such questions, Because you know no one could prove to you God existence but God himself, You really want to know if he's real?
Pray, and ask him to at least to give you a sign that he exists - If you do it from your heart i assure you the prayers will work, But if you do it refusing his existence it won't work at all.

Now to all atheists who posted in this thread, Please do me a favor and don't argue with me, And don't tell me i'm a kid, At least i'm a kid who can use his mind (God's creation).

And if it still doesn't help you and you don't want to pray, You can ask other Christians, Why do they believe in God? What did he do? How did he help them? What has happened that made them believe?

Seek and you will find brother.

Cheers.
 
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