Is Genetics a Program?

[Hallstone]

If Genetics is a biological program, then how can a bio/electro/chemical program happen by itself? where is the solid evidence of a program ever just happening?
If this is true, then the most sophisticated digital program would seem like child's play compared to Genetic Programming.

 

[Maddox]

Genetics is the study of genes, genetic variation, and heredity in living organisms.

Wikipedia

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The genome isn't an algorithmic program like a computer program, more like a bunch of interacting switches that activate or deactivate the production of particular proteins and are, in turn, affected by the results of what the proteins do. Analogue feedback.

 

[Shemjaza]

I didn't answer the question because I feel the terms are not clear enough.

Genetics are certainly a complicated pattern. But the changes and development of genetics can be explained by chemistry, so I can't see a justification for assuming intent.

 

[Nithavela]

If Genetics is a biological program, then how can a bio/electro/chemical program happen by itself?

It isn't. Thread over.

 

[quatona]

If Genetics is a biological program,

Depends on your definition of "program". Care to share it so that we can answer your question in the way you mean it?

 

[Hallstone]

Depends on your definition of "program". Care to share it so that we can answer your question in the way you mean it?

Program: a series of coded software instructions to control the operation of a computer or other machine.
this is the definition pertaining to a electro-digital-machine, but isn't this a lot like the electro-chemical-biological machine like us and every other "living" thing. In other words, does man's digital programming "mimic" the biological in the sense that they are both operating systems within systems to organize an ordered working result, although the biological is many times more complex being self repairing and self replicating.

 

[Hallstone]

I didn't answer the question because I feel the terms are not clear enough.

Genetics are certainly a complicated pattern. But the changes and development of genetics can be explained by chemistry, so I can't see a justification for assuming intent.

It seems to me that a chemical/biological code is as, or more complex than a digital code, and that the digital code helps us understand the biological in the sense that they both operate systems within systems which their existence implies intent.

 

[quatona]

Program: a series of coded software instructions to control the operation of a computer or other machine.
this is the definition pertaining to a electro-digital-machine, but isn't this a lot like the electro-chemical-biological machine like us and every other "living" thing. In other words, does man's digital programming "mimic" the biological in the sense that they are both operating systems within systems to organize an ordered working result, although the biological is many times more complex being self repairing and self replicating.

Unless we preassume intent or we can demonstrate intent/purpose/goal/program, we can´t conclude intent/purpose/goal/program.
I don´t know that complexity points to intent/purpose/goal/program behind the scenes.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If Genetics is a biological program

It isn't. Genetics are processes of bio-chemistry, subject to / dictated by the laws of nature.

, then how can a bio/electro/chemical program happen by itself?

In the same way that hurricanes happen "by themselves".

where is the solid evidence of a program ever just happening?

Pick a natural process, any natural process.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Program: a series of coded software instructions to control the operation of a computer or other machine.
this is the definition pertaining to a electro-digital-machine, but isn't this a lot like the electro-chemical-biological machine like us and every other "living" thing. In other words, does man's digital programming "mimic" the biological in the sense that they are both operating systems within systems to organize an ordered working result, although the biological is many times more complex being self repairing and self replicating.

DNA are molecules engaged in a chemical chain reaction. Not unlike any other chemical reaction.

And just because we are able to model natural processes in software models (or hardware devices), doesn't mean that the things being modeled are also software or devices

That's like saying that the ice at the North Pole is not natural "because freezers".

 

[Hallstone]

It isn't. Genetics are processes of bio-chemistry, subject to / dictated by the laws of nature.



In the same way that hurricanes happen "by themselves".



Pick a natural process, any natural process.

The intelligent complexity of Genetics goes way beyond displays of physics like weather, or simple chemical processes, Genetics is life processes which are many times more complex and very far from being mindless.

 

[Shemjaza]

It seems to me that a chemical/biological code is as, or more complex than a digital code, and that the digital code helps us understand the biological in the sense that they both operate systems within systems which their existence implies intent.

But the systems governing genetics can change. It gains complexity in measurable and understandable ways.

It would take an incredibly long time to get from the complexity of self replicating DNA or RNA to the complexity of a human or even a modern single celled organism, but it turns out we also have both evidence of a long time and of gradually increasing complexity.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The intelligent complexity of Genetics goes way beyond displays of physics like weather, or simple chemical processes, Genetics is life processes which are many times more complex and very far from being mindless.

It certainly is complex, and it's effective, but in terms of 'design' it's a tangled mess. No intelligent mind would produce a system like that. It makes the banking software I used to work with - full of dead code, uncommented, and hacked around by generations of contract programmers, all with their own idiosyncratic styles, and none of whom stayed long enough to fix all the bugs they introduced - look like a paragon of elegance.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The intelligent complexity of Genetics

what "intelligent" complexity?

goes way beyond displays of physics like weather, or simple chemical processes,

No, there is nothing in genetics that isn't just physics and chemistry.
Complex chemistry, sure. But chemistry nonetheless.

There is literally nothing happening there that isn't just physics or chemistry.

Genetics is life processes which are many times more complex and very far from being mindless.

Again, there's nothing happening there that follows "special" rules of chemistry or whatever.

Just claiming it doesn't make it so.

 

[sfs]

It certainly is complex, and it's effective, but in terms of 'design' it's a tangled mess. No intelligent mind would produce a system like that. It makes the banking software I used to work with - full of dead code, uncommented, and hacked around by generations of contract programmers, all with their own idiosyncratic styles, and none of whom stayed long enough to fix all the bugs they introduced - look like a paragon of elegance.

Exactly. Genomes, to the extent that they look like programs at all, look like programs that have evolved over long periods of time without benefit of software design.

 

[Hallstone]

what "intelligent" complexity?



No, there is nothing in genetics that isn't just physics and chemistry.
Complex chemistry, sure. But chemistry nonetheless.

There is literally nothing happening there that isn't just physics or chemistry.



Again, there's nothing happening there that follows "special" rules of chemistry or whatever.

Just claiming it doesn't make it so.

Chance makes chaos not complexity, complexity must be created and maintained by intelligence, agendas can cause us to disregard the obvious. It is easy to see that someone designed and built a computer or some other machine, but that does not threaten anyone's faith whether it be in chaos or Christianity. But when the design glorifies the intelligence, that's when people start to get nervous.

 

[sfs]

complexity must be created and maintained by intelligence

I think that's the assertion you're supposed to be providing evidence for, rather than just stating. It's not at all obvious to me, at any rate.

 

[Hallstone]

I think that's the assertion you're supposed to be providing evidence for, rather than just stating. It's not at all obvious to me, at any rate.

Don't get sand in your nose.

 

[sfs]

Don't get sand in your nose.