Is forgiveness always mandatory?

[TravisD]

God forgives us if we repent and turn away from our sins. We are told to forgive others if they trespass against us. Holding a grudge against somebody is definitely a bad thing, but are we supposed to forgive somebody who is not sorry and will repeatedly do us wrong? What if they purposefully do wrong against you and you know they will do it again? We have to turn from our sins to get forgiveness from God right? Is it expected of us to forgive others if they do not turn from doing wrong against us? A fictional example follows:

Mr. Stink decides he doesn't like you one day and throws a baseball through your front window. The next day he puts sugar in your gas tank. The next day he kicks your dog. The next day he sets your shed on fire... and on and on and on. Mr. Stink doesn't want forgiveness and laughs at you for not stooping to his level. He is also above the law and nothing can be done to stop him legally.

Do we have to forgive somebody like that every single day? Would it be sinful to beat the crap out of the guy and then tell him you forgive him after he's lying on the ground unconscious?

 

[stormdancer0]

Forgiveness doesn't mean you condone what someone has done. It is saying that I'm not going to let the anger and bitterness of unforgiveness to destroy my life, simply because you are a jerk. There's no reason why you have to put up with Mr. Stink. You can defend yourself and your property. You can do what it takes to keep yourself safe. You don't have to like the guy, and you don't have to be friends with him. You just have to not allow your anger to fester and create a barrier between you and God.

Unforgiveness is a decision. You don't feel it. You don't want to. It's an act of your will. Sometimes you won't see the rewards of your obedience to God's commands until you get to Heaven.

 

[TravisD]

It is saying that I'm not going to let the anger and bitterness of unforgiveness to destroy my life.

Thanks Storm, that makes perfect sense. Holding resentment toward somebody can be damaging to ones self. So forgiving and letting go of that resentment is what God is after. For some reason I was thinking there was more to forgiveness, but after reading your comment and the actual definition of the word I guess that's about it.

 

[Shulamite]

It is tough, but yes, we are commanded to forgive, even as we have been forgiven. Jesus told us that even if our brother sins against us 70 times 7, we are to forgive. At times when I have struggled with bitterness against another, Jesus speaks to me and reminds of the scripture where He spoke of the "ungrateful servant"..... It's difficult, I know, but if we truly love the Lord, we will forgive simply because He forgave us (you and I) a debt we could NEVER repay....

We need to be merciful as He is merciful, even if they don't deserve it. The scripture commands us to leave "vengeance to the Lord, it is His to repay."
Here are Jesus exact words down below:

Matt 18:23-35 Therefore the Kingdom of Heaven is like a certain king, who wanted to reconcile accounts with his servants. When he had begun to reconcile, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. But because he couldn’t pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, with his wife, his children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down and kneeled before him, saying, ‘Lord, have patience with me, and I will repay you all!’ The lord of that servant, being moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt. "But that servant went out, and found one of his fellow servants, who owed him one hundred denarii, and he grabbed him, and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ "So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will repay you!’ He would not, but went and cast him into prison, until he should pay back that which was due. So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were exceedingly sorry, and came and told to their lord all that was done. Then his lord called him in, and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt, because you begged me. Shouldn’t you also have had mercy on your fellow servant, even as I had mercy on you?’ His lord was angry, and delivered him to the tormentors, until he should pay all that was due to him. So my heavenly Father will also do to you, if you don’t each forgive your brother from your hearts for his misdeeds."

 

[Christfan]

I don't see how anyone can be above the law for throwing a bat through your window. The cops would fix his attitude pretty quick. But it is 10x more enjoyable to smile and have your mood unaffected when people do you wrong. At the same time remind them God is angry =D.

 

[stormdancer0]

Plus, refusing to get mad is really irritating to someone who's trying to anger you!!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I believe it is at least necessary to work toward forgiveness . sometimes people cannot . but would like to .

 

[tuantran]

Forgive someone who does something wrong to you? How? I've experience this so many times in my life but I found I still could not get away with the anger, burning feeling inside my body and feel heavy and sadness for the rest of the day.

Preventing fire before it's burn is the key, Once it's burn you're fail.

I've searched for so many methods but none of them work for me. I decided to see a monk at buddism meditation center. In three months, I could prevent the fire before it's even burn.

Buddism Meditation is not a counting breath method or concentration method like we thought. The real meditation is a learning process to wake yourself up from sin, locate your deep inner sin that caused you to get upset and anger.

We have the ability to deal with any problems without upset and anger.

Sin-->anger-->suffer, I don't see my sin when they slap me-->angry, upset. How can I forgive if I don't see my sin. Forgiveness without understanding yourself is like killing weeds without pulling up the roots

 

[B1inHim]

It is our self-centeredness that keeps us from the divine.

WE know that we are truly His when we can forgive... remember, if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven...
forgiving a wrong done to us creates integrate within us and we are actually working on becoming more like Him

Love,
your doulos brother Jerry

 

[Miss Elly]

God forgives us if we repent and turn away from our sins. We are told to forgive others if they trespass against us. Holding a grudge against somebody is definitely a bad thing, but are we supposed to forgive somebody who is not sorry and will repeatedly do us wrong? What if they purposefully do wrong against you and you know they will do it again? We have to turn from our sins to get forgiveness from God right? Is it expected of us to forgive others if they do not turn from doing wrong against us? A fictional example follows:

Mr. Stink decides he doesn't like you one day and throws a baseball through your front window. The next day he puts sugar in your gas tank. The next day he kicks your dog. The next day he sets your shed on fire... and on and on and on. Mr. Stink doesn't want forgiveness and laughs at you for not stooping to his level. He is also above the law and nothing can be done to stop him legally.

Do we have to forgive somebody like that every single day? Would it be sinful to beat the crap out of the guy and then tell him you forgive him after he's lying on the ground unconscious?

He wants you to be angry. Perhaps you could smile at him and say God bless you, Jesus loves you, or just plain old shout out hallejuah, I'm blessed! where he can hear you. Have christian music on, drive him nuts with a sermon on tv (with the door opened). ha ha. I've done this myself and it works!

 

[SolaVeritas]

Have christian music on, drive him nuts with a sermon on tv (with the door opened). ha ha. I've done this myself and it works!

Yeah, and that's probably WHY he threw the bat and did all the other stuff....

Kidding, there's no way around forgiveness. Whether the other guy repents and is sorry or not.

 

[SolaVeritas]

Forgive someone who does something wrong to you? How? I've experience this so many times in my life but I found I still could not get away with the anger, burning feeling inside my body and feel heavy and sadness for the rest of the day.

Preventing fire before it's burn is the key, Once it's burn you're fail.

I've searched for so many methods but none of them work for me. I decided to see a monk at buddism meditation center. In three months, I could prevent the fire before it's even burn.

I think you are making things hard for yourself by trying in your own strength. Forgiveness is not a feeling, it is a firm decision of your mind, an act of your will, The "feeling of forgiveness" (or better, absence of what you call fire), comes as a result of your decision. If there's fire, it is a sure indication that you have not let go of the anger. Buddhist methods are not superior to the work of the Holy Spirit. Come in prayer before God and tell Him that you are willing to forgive so and so. If you are not, then ask him to make you willing to forgive, then acknowledge that you can do so only by His strength and humbly ask for grace. If necessary, repeat. He is the great Fire Extinguisher!

 

[Azureknight 773]

If good God Almighty knows how to forgive, then why not we?

 

[stormdancer0]

And remember, even Jesus got angry at the moneychangers. Be angry, but sin not. Forgiveness has very little to do with the one being forgiven. It is refusing to allow yourself to build up so much anger in you that it blocks your ability to follow Jesus. By all means, don't let other religions woo you into their system. This is a test for you. Remain faithful.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Thanks Storm, that makes perfect sense. Holding resentment toward somebody can be damaging to ones self. So forgiving and letting go of that resentment is what God is after. For some reason I was thinking there was more to forgiveness, but after reading your comment and the actual definition of the word I guess that's about it.

Exactly. Forgiveness is not only for them but for us. My boyfriend and I were listening to this topic discussed the other day on Paltalk and it got me thinking about it. Even if you never agree with something someone has done, let it go, for holding onto anger is never a good thing. It slowly spreads in your system and before you realize it, something has been corrupted or weakened. You must stand us for yourself with pride because you are a child of God, but don't give too much attention to where it's not deserved.

 

[storm9]

Mr.Stink needs prayer, besides it would seem he has a problem with you as a Christian and against God a bit like the pharisees and Stephen... u need t pray for him... dare I say if ur right with God u need to figive as well.... to what glory is it if we only give to friends and not show compassion on our enemies..?

 

[T Man]

Unresolved anger is poison to the body and the soul. It will make you sick to death. Forgiveness is the only antidote that can make you well. Don't make the mistake of thinking that forgiveness is only for the benefit of those with whom you are angry. No. It is for your benefit as much as it is for theirs.
Unknown author sent me this some time ago....

 

[racough]

A Nicky Cruz book Where Were You When I Was Hurting really influenced me that a simple boring, mundane thing that everyone give lip service to is so important for healing—that is to forgive everone regardless of how horribly they treated you—no exceptions.


The Bible says in several places that absolutely we must totally forgive everyone and even love the the person who hurt us so it also says that God will not deal with us all long as we harbor hatred against our neighbor.


Now forgiving one does not mean you are saying that what they did is correct. It does not mean that you cannot take steps to protect yourself.


For example if a person was sexually abusing someone, that person would have the right to protect and even turn that person into the police. God said that government was created by God to provide justice here on Earth. But God gave the government the role, not individuals to get revenge.


Also the Bible does not say it is wrong to become angry, it says “Be angry and do not sin, and do not let the sun go down on your anger.” There is even a limit on how long we stay angry.


But after a period of anger and perhaps taking this person to be judged by the law, we cannot wish harm on him and yes, even love that person. Now again it does not mean you love your enemy or feel emotionally toward them as you do your family and friends. God does not mean you have to socialize or be their best friend, but you do have to truly love them.


Everyone, even atheists, gives lip service to the idea that we should forgive everyone. There is no political lobby or school of thought campaigning against this notion but do people really practice it, even Christians? People will say “Yeah, I guess I forgive so and so,” but their tone tells me otherwise.



Think of the two most brutal mass murderers in history, Stalin and Hitler. I know Stalin had a very abusive father. Stalin did not trust anyone and often put to death his closest friends and colleagues. I wonder if he even had any friends. He was not even close to his family.


Did his bitterness toward his father lead him to do all his murdering and on top of this to cause additional millions tremendous suffering, such as in the gulags?


Could not the same be said about Hitler—perhaps he was wounded emotionally and he ended up taking it out on Jews and many others.


Would not the history of the world be different if these two men could have forgiven from the heart, not superficially, those who had deeply wounded them in their youth?


You know the destruction that these two men committed on mankind is small if you look at all the destruction that bitterness around us causes by even small and insignificant people. Families are destroyed, many relationships are destroyed.


Forgiving is very hard to do, it is humiliating, you feel like you are having crap rubbed in your face, you think “Why should I forgive this person when they did such and such and I was an innocent victim.” I never believe those who say flippantly “Yeah, I guess I forgive my ex.”


You know Jesus said “You have heard that it was said love your neighbor and hate your enemy . . .” You notice He said “you have heard that it was said.” You see I do not believe you can love your neighbor while you hate your enemy—at least harbor deep bitterness. The bitterness is like cancer, it will infect all of a person’s relationships, even poisoning their relationship with their closest friends.


Yet in the long run you cannot hate your enemies and still love your friends. You may not even have any true friends.



Some harbor bitterness against parents, a former spouse or lover, and think when the right man or women comes along they will have a loving relationship. They think they can compartmentalize people into one group who that seethe bitterness and another group (like a boy or girlfriend, a future spouse, their darling lovely precious daughter) who they think they can love.


But when a person harbors bitterness, even toward someone who clearly and severely abused them that bitterness is a cancer that inflects all, and I say all, relationships and will poison them all.



In fact the people who wounded the persons who harbor bitterness much have their own bitterness against others.
So many people who have been wounded think if they just find the right person their troubles will be over—that they will be healed. But even if they did find a perfect mate, or even a close friend who was perfect, their own bitterness will poison the relationship. In fact what could they ever contribute to a relationship in their bitterness.


You know if you take a person who was severely abused, sexually and otherwise, the abuse they suffered, and I am in no way minimizing the suffering that kids go through and I sympathize with them, but if they harbor bitterness, even a “I like to see this person get this done to him” the suffering that a person will cause on themselves will be greater that all the abuse that has been afflicted upon them.


Just look at just a few of the many verses in the Bible commanding us to forgive those (I do not care how severe they abused us)



Matthew 6:12: Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors.


Matthew 6:14-15: “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you don’t forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


[FONT=&quot]I know the power of forgiveness. It is not something you do once but you have to do it constantly. And it can still be very difficult to do even after you have done it many times before and felt the refreshment and relief that comes from forgiving.[/FONT]

 

[tuantran]

I think you are making things hard for yourself by trying in your own strength. Forgiveness is not a feeling, it is a firm decision of your mind, an act of your will, The "feeling of forgiveness" (or better, absence of what you call fire), comes as a result of your decision. If there's fire, it is a sure indication that you have not let go of the anger. Buddhist methods are not superior to the work of the Holy Spirit. Come in prayer before God and tell Him that you are willing to forgive so and so. If you are not, then ask him to make you willing to forgive, then acknowledge that you can do so only by His strength and humbly ask for grace. If necessary, repeat. He is the great Fire Extinguisher!

How can you forgive someone that 100% of the time that the anger was caused by you. It's not the ouside object or someone else. We usually get upset or anger because we always try to blame on someone else. Instead of blame on someone else why don't we look into ourself and ask why can't we deal with the problem without getting upset, anger.

I said 100% of the time that the anger and upset caused by you, how can you forgive someone else that they did not do anything wrong to you. To realize this meaning is a long process of cleaning up your sin that Satan has sneak inside your body for a long time that you don't even realize it.

why do you get upset at someone else when they against you or beating you up? because deep inside us wanted to control everyone on this earth (there are more to this and only you can find it). Ask yourself if you are a King, would you forgive someone that beat you up?

Yes, we can forgive someone else only after when we review the problem with God. Here I am talking about the anger right the monent after they beat you up. We have the ability to kill the root of the anger when we realize that all the upset and anger caused by us not by someone else. When I pray to God, instead of looking at what others have done wrong to me, I look into myself and ask God please help me to find my sin. what's cause me to get upset? why I can't dealing with the problem without getting upset?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Matthew 18

15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"

22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seven times seventy.

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.