Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation:
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those signs are not in the Olivet Discourse.
Jesus doesn't return at Revel.6, those signs are before He comes. Mat.24:29-30. Verse 30 corresponds with Revel.19:11, 15.
The men in the caves are referring to the wrath of the Lamb, not of the Second Coming of which Jesus comes to make war (Revel.19:11). In which those gathered at Har Megiddo., all die by the breath of His mouth.
Nothing like that is mentioned in Revel.6:14-17.
How would those unbelievers even know anything about Biblical theology in order to make such a statement? The wrath of the Lord. Why would they attribute it to Him? They had to have heard something. They had to have believed it on some level.
Instead of just yelling ohsh--!!!
It's my speculation that they would have tortured the saints to get the information and then martyr them.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
When they are in a cave, how would they know that Jesus had arrived in His Second Coming? It doesn't say that the angels announced His arrival. It doesn't say that the angels trumpeted horns.
I submit that they were hiding in a cave because that's where all of their arsenal is hidden. It has happened before that certain Middle East armies who were in an underground catacomb blew themselves up because of casually tending to their weaponry.
Just to prove the point, recently there was the reported explosions due to chemicals stored in the same place as fireworks.
So it's possible that because those armies will be fighting against Jesus and His saints.. just like some Christians call calamity the punishment of God, they likely have that religious conclusion too.
But the incident at Har Megiddo is different enough that the two can't be smashed together into one event.
They aren't hiding when Jesus arrives in Revel.19:11. They are an army ready to unleash all of their military weapons on Him. You couldn't unleash weapons in a cave unless you wanted to get blown up.
Which is what's indicated in Rev.6:14 "The sky split apart like a scroll before it's rolled up." Watch a video of a nuclear bomb explosion and notice above the mushroom blast that occurs, the air, clouds, retreat to the sides as the mushroom cloud rises. Then also there can be seen jagged pillars of cloud as if hanging down from it and touching the ground.
There is .. the fire, the vapor or pillars of smoke. Joel 2:30.
Such a thing is accompanied by an earthquake Revel.6:12.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The angels in heaven were saying it. It wasn't because it had taken place yet.
At the time they did say it, it can be likened to when David told Goliath what was going to happen to him before David threw the stone.
Speaking of a thing to happen before it actually does happen. As God did when He created all things. He said it, and afterwards it was so. As Abraham spoke of having a son before he actually did. As Jesus spoke of the fig tree being dead before the roots died and the leaves withered.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan
Fulfilled in Revel.12:7-9.
and the birth and death of Christ,
Biblewriter has an excellent teaching about this on his website.
None of what you posit is looking back then switching again to looking forward.
The things spoken of in from Revelation 6 onward only pertain to the future seven year Tribulation. Jesus wasn't born in what is to us the future, there's no mention of His death or resurrection in the text, nor will He be caught up to heaven at that time.
That "caught up" is certainly not needed because Jesus has been in heaven since He ascended ten days before Pentecost. And Jesus had brought John up into heaven in Revel.4 to witness events there such as Jesus being given the scroll.
To the Tribulation saints it makes no sense to be reminded of Jesus birth, death and resurrection. Because they've already heard that and got saved at some point before.. John had no reason to pause in revealing to the Tribulation saints of current events pertinent to them and suddenly give an evangelistic message.. then resume his telling them what will happen next in their current lives.
The current will be the notice of the Virgo constellation as described in Revel.12:1-2. It describes a woman close to time to give birth. The Jews will be familiar with that from Gen.37:9 which speaks of the descendants of Abraham.
So that identifies "the child" in verse 4. And corresponds with the 144,000 Jewish tribes Revel.7:4-8.
So the child spoken of is not Christ for it is said that Joseph, Mary and the Child Jesus fled to Egypt to avoid the killings of the babies and children by Hared.
However, Revel.12:5 says that when the child was caught up to God and to His throne, the woman (not Joseph, Mary and Jesus) fled to the wilderness. That corresponds to what Jesus told the Jews when they saw the Abomination of desolation. Flee to the wilderness. So the woman represents all of the Jews .. when the 144,000 are separated from the other Jews and sealed is not clearly indicated.
The phrase "caught up" is the same phrase found in 1Thes.4:17. But Jesus ascended up in the clouds. The action 'ascend' and 'caught up' is not the same.
So the going up is the same as the church going up to be at God's throne in heaven.
who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
That seed is also the church. Written in the epistles Rom.16:20. But promised also to the Tribulation saints. However, that promise doesn't prevent all of there deaths by martyrdom.
They overcame but they loved not their lives unto death. Revel.12:11.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
The tares do not get transformed into wheat. They are only gathered to be burned. They only die and their corpses lie on the ground. Mat.24:28.
It says nothing in Revel.14:6-7 of any souls that were saved or of wheat harvested. Using the scripture to try and directly imply it is assumption which is reading into the text what isn't there.
The Revelation was written according to themes therefore part of the 144,000 is mentioned in Chapter 7, then John returns to them in Chapter 14 to further describe them before they are "caught up" as stated in Chapter 12.
It corresponds to Jerem.51:6-8. Verse 8 says that the nations colluded with Babylon the Great in drinking the wine of the passion of her immorality.
The wine refers to the blood of the saints when they were martyred. Revel.17:2,6.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon
If He did then why would anyone be hiding? Why would any army be ready to shoot missiles and all they've got at Him?
A thief is a thief because he comes without anyone knowing. By the time it is known, it's too late.
Your statement indicates that you're not thinking of them as separate but smashing two separate events into one that aren't the same occasion. The post-Tribbers do the same thing. Putting the rapture at the same time as the Second Coming.
and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
It doesn't happen to the entire planet. But only around Israel and the countries of the Mediterranean Sea. Including the islands located in the sea. The European area. The conglomerate nations are now called The European Union.
Babylon is not the whole earth. It's described as Sodom and Egypt. Metaphors to refer to profuse aberrant sexual practices and the government of Pharoah-Caesars ruling over slaves. But the further description is "Also where the Lord was crucified." That's Jerusalem Israel.
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
Paul isn't talking about the judgement of the dead who're raised up to stand at the White Throne Judgement.
How can Jesus afflict someone who's already dead?
Paul could be talking about the reason why the men in the caves called their calamity "the wrath of the Lamb." Read 2 Thes. 2:6 again "After all, it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you" The further verses are referring to the Second Coming.
Is again referring to the Second Coming and that which follows it, the Messianic kingdom.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18)
I agree with you on that one.
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew
25:31-46.
Yes, there are.. the Jews who'd fled to the wilderness and there being protected by God, and also people out of all nations who are not in the European area.
Otherwise who would Jesus the Messiah reign over for the thousand years? Who would He teach the covenants of God? The church that returned with Him in the Second Coming already knows.
Who would the Jews survived in their flesh bodies teach the laws of God to as they are predestined and called to do?
Revelation
9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.
Do you notice that it's at the same geographical location of the European area?
If the entire planet is going to experience the disasters of the Tribulation, why not put the demons bound at places all over the world?
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The resurrection of Revel.20 is not including being raised from the dead as those whom Jesus raised from the dead.
The two witnesses were raised from the dead, then raptured up to heaven. That's different than those unsaved that were raised from the dead to go to the White Throne Judgement.
Did you notice that Chapter 12 speaks of the child being caught up to heaven? There is such closeness with the two witnesses in Chapt 11 raised from the dead.
I speculate that the apostle John put the two events so closely in chapter sequence so that readers can see the similarity between them.
Exactly as stated in 1 Thes.4:16-17.
I am not implying that it's referring to the rapture of the church age Christians. I am implying a repeat rapture event that occurs during the Tribulation as will occur to the church of this age before the Tribulation begins.
The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".
Exactly. But, it has to be known when and with what verses that it's biblically correct to recapitulate.
