Is faith really a gift?

[Hmm]

Surprisingly, I actually agree with you on some points

Why "surprising" seeing that I'm usually right on all points /s. I can accept a lot of what you say on the proviso it applies to all people, not a just a select few.

 

[Hammster]

Why "surprising" seeing that I'm usually right on all points /s. I can accept a lot of what you say on the proviso it applies to all people, not a just a select few.

Except that scripture doesn’t support it applying to all people.

 

[Hmm]

I don't mean the outcome, I mean the opportunity. I believe scripture says that the choice for salvation will be available to all people.

 

[Hammster]

I don't mean the outcome, I mean the opportunity. I believe scripture says that the choice for salvation will be available to all people.

There’s no “opportunity” to have your heart changed from stone to flesh. God does it, or He doesn’t.

 

[Aaron_Bethlhm]

I don't mean the outcome, I mean the opportunity. I believe scripture says that the choice for salvation will be available to all people.

It does seem it was available to the religious leaders, but they rejected it >
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and experts in the ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/luke/7-30.htm
But the Pharisees and the Scribes rejected the will of God in their souls, because they were not baptized by him. GOD'S WORD® Translation But the Pharisees and the experts in Moses' Teachings rejected God's plan for them. They refused to be baptized. New American Standard 1977

 

[Hmm]

There’s no “opportunity” to have your heart changed from stone to flesh. God does it, or He doesn’t.

Would God create creatures that naturally have hearts of stone? Why would He do that?

 

[Hammster]

Would God create creatures that naturally have hearts of stone? Why would He do that?

He didn’t. It’s the result of the fall. It’s why we must be born again.

 

[Aaron_Bethlhm]

Would God create creatures that naturally have hearts of stone? Why would He do that?

It is His Plan. Everyone is born under sin, dead to righteousness. 'naturally' (worldly, carnal, fleshly) ...
So , the only hope, God's Plan, and God's Purpose, is for those with a heart of stone, dead in sin, to be savedd how ? by their own 'goodness'?? by their own works ? no way.

By grace through faith in Jesus Messiah King above all Kings, Who Alone (no one else) is the "Life-giving Spirit" as written in Scripture.....

 

[Andrewn]

But the seed--the word--really is what causes faith. That's how faith is a gift. The sower sows the seed, and when the word takes root it produces faith, and then faith grows.

We can resist, reject, turn away from Christ. Such happens when the birds pluck the seed, or when it is choked out by the thorns and thistles. But we aren't the ones who cause our faith, it is a gift.

Excellent. I keep saying that Lutherans are closer to Arminianism .

 

[Hmm]

If I transfer money to your bank account, the gift is yours. You can choose to reject the gift, but it's not about you accepting or not accepting it--it's yours, it's been given to you. So it's not a matter of our accepting the gift, but rather what do we do now that we have been given the gift.

As in the Parable of the Sower, the seed is scattered and sown, but if we reject, turn away, and choke out what has been given to us then we, to use St. Paul's words, shipwreck our faith. Like a sailor piloting his ship into sharp rocks.

That is why we are called to abide in Christ. Christ is our assurance. If we abide in faith, then we have the assurance of Christ; but if we turn away we steer ourselves into sharp rocks.

-CryptoLutheran

I like the analogy of the bank account. Am I understanding it correctly? God freely gives us faith as a gift, just like like the seeds is planted in the Parable of the Sower. We can then say that we have faith even though it may be a small, dawning faith that we're barely aware of.

We then need to abide in faith for our faith to grow. This involves us actually doing stuff like obeying his commands, prayer and trusting and loving Him. By doing this, we remain in Him and our faith matures and it's consequent fruits show in our lives?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I like the analogy of the bank account. Am I understanding it correctly? God freely gives us faith as a gift, just like like the seeds is planted in the Parable of the Sower. We can then say that we have faith even though it may be a small, dawning faith that we're barely aware of.

We then need to abide in faith for our faith to grow. This involves us actually doing stuff like obeying his commands, prayer and trusting and loving Him. By doing this, we remain in Him and our faith matures and it's consequent fruits show in our lives?

More-or-less.

Ephesians 2:10 says that we were created for good works in Christ Jesus, to walk in them. That's faith in action. The good works aren't what save us, but it's what the Christian life, lived in faith, looks like. With the careful caveat that we don't get to go around rating one another, or even our own, works and then trying to determine our faith that way.

Luther in his Preface to Romans writes,

"Faith is not that human illusion and dream that some people think it is. When they hear and talk a lot about faith and yet see that no moral improvement and no good works result from it, they fall into error and say, 'Faith is not enough. You must do works if you want to be virtuous and get to heaven.' The result is that, when they hear the Gospel, they stumble and make for themselves with their own powers a concept in their hearts which says, 'I believe.' This concept they hold to be true faith. But since it is a human fabrication and thought and not an experience of the heart, it accomplishes nothing, and there follows no improvement.

Faith is a work of God in us, which changes us and brings us to birth anew from God (cf. John 1). It kills the old Adam, makes us completely different people in heart, mind, senses, and all our powers, and brings the Holy Spirit with it. What a living, creative, active powerful thing is faith! It is impossible that faith ever stop doing good. Faith doesn't ask whether good works are to be done, but, before it is asked, it has done them. It is always active. Whoever doesn't do such works is without faith; he gropes and searches about him for faith and good works but doesn't know what faith or good works are. Even so, he chatters on with a great many words about faith and good works.

Faith is a living, unshakeable confidence in God's grace; it is so certain, that someone would die a thousand times for it. This kind of trust in and knowledge of God's grace makes a person joyful, confident, and happy with regard to God and all creatures. This is what the Holy Spirit does by faith. Through faith, a person will do good to everyone without coercion, willingly and happily; he will serve everyone, suffer everything for the love and praise of God, who has shown him such grace. It is as impossible to separate works from faith as burning and shining from fire. Therefore be on guard against your own false ideas and against the chatterers who think they are clever enough to make judgements about faith and good works but who are in reality the biggest fools. Ask God to work faith in you; otherwise you will remain eternally without faith, no matter what you try to do or fabricate." - Luther's Preface to Romans

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hmm]

More-or-less.

Well, that's better than I usually do on here so pleased with that

Thanks for the Luther quote. A question if I may. When Luther says "unshakeable confidence in God's grace" and "it is so certain" in the quote below, where does this confidence and certainty come from? Are they are result of our own reflections or an indivisible part of the faith that is given to us as gift?

And a follow-up question. If we feel that we do have a faith but it's wavering a bit or isn't particularly making us joyful, is there anything we can do?

Faith is a living, unshakeable confidence in God's grace; it is so certain, that someone would die a thousand times for it. This kind of trust in and knowledge of God's grace makes a person joyful, confident, and happy with regard to God and all creatures. This is what the Holy Spirit does by faith.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well, that's better than I usually do on here so pleased with that

Thanks for the Luther quote. A question if I may. When Luther says "unshakeable confidence in God's grace" and "it is so certain" in the quote below, where does this confidence and certainty come from? Are they are result of our own reflections or an indivisible part of the faith that is given to us as gift?

The arguably more common way Luther's phrasing is translated is "bold trust in God's grace", I've even heard it phrased as "a radical trust in God's grace". It's a bold, radical, cleaving-trust in God's mercy. The confidence here probably shouldn't be viewed as an intellectual exercise, like a confidence built upon reason and sound argument. It's deeper than that. It's not rational confidence, or rational certainty--it's not epistemological. It's that cleaving-trust in God's loving-kindness, His grace. Faith looks to God's word and promises, and trusts that His word and promise is true, and this confidence in God's faithfulness toward us is consolation, comfort. It doesn't depend on our getting all our t's crossed, or i's dotted; it's about God's own extending of Himself to us in love, that He has promised to save us, and He is going to keep that promise. That's the confidence, the happiness, etc that comes from faith.

It is a radical dependence upon God's word, that the word He speaks to us is love, it is hope, it is the mercy and assurance that our sins are forgiven. And the confidence that we are forgiven is that it's not up to us, it's up to God, and God says "You are forgiven". That's the word He speaks to us through the crucified and risen Jesus, the word He speaks through His Gospel: You are forgiven.

We don't have to earn God's love.
We don't have to earn God's favor.
We don't have to earn God.

God freely, unconditionally, wholly, without holding back anything gives Himself to us. You can believe that, trust that, depend on it. That's the confidence of faith, that God is good to His word.

And a follow-up question. If we feel that we do have a faith but it's wavering a bit or isn't particularly making us joyful, is there anything we can do?

Read Mark chapter 9, and take note of verse 24, the father of the child says, "Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief!"

Let "I believe, help my unbelief" be your prayer. Look to Christ, set your gaze upon Christ. See His cross. See the wounds in His hands and His feet. See how He gives Himself to you in His Supper as true heavenly food. Remember your Baptism, where you were washed clean as snow. Hear the word spoken to you, receive that word, confess it.

Confess the Creed.
Pray the Lord's Prayer.

All of these things which surround us are declaring Christ to us day and night. Every hour of every day, week after week, Christ surrounds us in His Word and in His Sacraments.

Look to Him.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hmm]

The arguably more common way Luther's phrasing is translated is "bold trust in God's grace", I've even heard it phrased as "a radical trust in God's grace". It's a bold, radical, cleaving-trust in God's mercy. The confidence here probably shouldn't be viewed as an intellectual exercise, like a confidence built upon reason and sound argument. It's deeper than that. It's not rational confidence, or rational certainty--it's not epistemological. It's that cleaving-trust in God's loving-kindness, His grace. Faith looks to God's word and promises, and trusts that His word and promise is true, and this confidence in God's faithfulness toward us is consolation, comfort. It doesn't depend on our getting all our t's crossed, or i's dotted; it's about God's own extending of Himself to us in love, that He has promised to save us, and He is going to keep that promise. That's the confidence, the happiness, etc that comes from faith.

It is a radical dependence upon God's word, that the word He speaks to us is love, it is hope, it is the mercy and assurance that our sins are forgiven. And the confidence that we are forgiven is that it's not up to us, it's up to God, and God says "You are forgiven". That's the word He speaks to us through the crucified and risen Jesus, the word He speaks through His Gospel: You are forgiven.

We don't have to earn God's love.
We don't have to earn God's favor.
We don't have to earn God.

God freely, unconditionally, wholly, without holding back anything gives Himself to us. You can believe that, trust that, depend on it. That's the confidence of faith, that God is good to His word.



Read Mark chapter 9, and take note of verse 24, the father of the child says, "Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief!"

Let "I believe, help my unbelief" be your prayer. Look to Christ, set your gaze upon Christ. See His cross. See the wounds in His hands and His feet. See how He gives Himself to you in His Supper as true heavenly food. Remember your Baptism, where you were washed clean as snow. Hear the word spoken to you, receive that word, confess it.

Confess the Creed.
Pray the Lord's Prayer.

All of these things which surround us are declaring Christ to us day and night. Every hour of every day, week after week, Christ surrounds us in His Word and in His Sacraments.

Look to Him.

-CryptoLutheran

Wow, thanks very much. That was a great exposition and very useful.