Is everything "meaningless" without God?

[Davian]

 

[Nithavela]

So what would you call a man who spent his entire life watching paint dry and how is his life any less meaningful than yours in the end?

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Why are you so fixated on "the end"?

 

[Davian]

Nihilist Doctor

• Davian
• Jun 3, 2016

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Of course there is, I gave it earlier.

Ah, you must have skimmed my previous post and missed it. Here's the rebuttal again for the claim that "meaning is meaningless now if at the end of the universe there's no one around."j

The word "meaning" has no temporal component, and therefore time isn't relevant when considering whether something has meaning or not.

Of course, you can prove me wrong by finding a definition that defines "meaning" as dependent on eternity.

So I'll be waiting for you to do that, or retract your statement...

You still have not read the op definition of the word "meaningless". I explained the context derived from the hebrew. If something is meaningless, it does not mean "without meaning". It means vanity, futile, pointless, "chasing the wind", ect. The reason why you continue to cling onto your definition of "meaningless " rather than that of the OP is because you know you don't have an arguement. Even you said yourself that " in the end life is meaningless". And that is the point. Anything you do apart from God will amount to nothing in the end.

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[Chriliman]

Not at all. Eternal, everlasting... all irrelevant.

We still differ on the... well, on the meaning of "meaning". You see it as something objective. There is this eternal, everlasting God, you say, and he goes on to "create" a meaning... and that is that. This now is THE meaning of... life, the universe and all the rest. This is the "true" meaning, everything else is just a "copy", or even a false meaning.

I do not see it this way. I see "meaning" as subjective. Meaning is something that every single conscious being creates for himself. Not arbitrary, not isolated... but always by himself.

So why would it be relevant for me if the "original source "is an eternal, everlasting God? While I am here, my meaning is as good for me as his... even better, because it is my meaning. And when I am no longer around... why would I care about his meaning?


So you say, so you say. But beyond throwing the term "logic" around, you have no way to show it.


I cannot prove there is no objective meaning. But I can observe subjective meaning. I know that it exists. That is something that can work with.
But you also cannot prove that there IS objective meaning. We can also not observe objective meaning, anywhere, anyhow. I would even go so far as to say it is impossible to observe objective meaning... how would that work for a subjective mind that always creates his own meaning?

So why would I work with something that cannot be shown, discarding that what can be shown?


That's correct. No one else need to believe what I say about the meaning of anything. Whether that leads to chaos and no true direction to follow... well, if you need spend your life following a meaning, you will sooner or later find that you missed your life while doing so.

See, you, by living your life, found for yourself, for no one else, that the meaning of your life is to love God and everyone else. If you now want to tell others that the meaning of their life is also loving God and everyone else... you would need to have something better than assertions.

Else you are not better than someone who thinks the meaning of your life is to die in heroic combat.

Freodin, you can continue believing whatever you want to believe, whatever gives you meaning, you already know that.

I prefer to believe what's actually true, regardless of the meaning. If it's true that I'm wrong, then I want to know that and accept that I'm wrong, there is meaning in doing that. I don't want to believe falsehood for obvious reasons.

If everyone shares this desire deep in their being, then we can say it's objectively good to believe the truth and objectively bad to believe falsehood and anyone who goes against this objective truth is wrong.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

.

It's not like belief is a conscious choice. Where are you going with this? Even if you found someone to confront your nihilism, what are they going to do?

"I better decide to believe in a god with a great afterlife package, or I'm gonna be really sad. "

You do realize that I am a Christian so I am not a nihilist? You are just in denial about the fact that anything you do apart from God is vanity.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

What units do you use to make such measurements?

Let's just say for arguement sake that it is the number of people who will remember you after you die.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Or, will be [hypothetically] burnt for eternity for reasons beyond your control. What is the purpose of that?

Not for reasons beyond your control. Because you chose to be there because you chose not to fulfill your purpose.

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[Nithavela]

Freodin, you can continue believing whatever you want to believe, whatever gives you meaning, you already know that.

I prefer to believe what's actually true, regardless of the meaning. If it's true that I'm wrong, then I want to know that and accept that I'm wrong, there is meaning in doing that. I don't want to believe falsehood for obvious reasons.

If everyone shares this desire deep in their being, then we can say it's objectively good to believe the truth and objectively bad to believe falsehood and anyone who goes against this objective truth is wrong.

No one wants to know the truth.

 

[Nithavela]

Let's just say for arguement sake that it is the number of people who will remember you after you die.

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Let me just get my matches and burn down a famous library..

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Why are you so fixated on "the end"?

Reread the op. It has everything to do with the end. Think about it. If you knew that today was your last day on earth. What would you not do and why would you not waste your last day on earth doing it?

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Let me just get my matches and burn down a famous library..

I wouldn't do that. Lol

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[ToddNotTodd]

Once again, I am not saying you can't enjoy a fulfilling life. The point is that if God is not part of your life, your life is "chasing the wind". It is vanity.

So you're not really saying that humans are unable to give our lives meaning without a god (because that logically doesn't follow), but rather that you don't like the fact that we call it "meaning" because we're not accepting that you believe there's a "super ultra" meaning that's given by a god you believe in.

The non-theists here don't care.

 

[Davian]

You do realize that I am a Christian so I am not a nihilist?

You simply do not self-identify as a nihilist, as I don't self-identify as an atheist. You depict yourself as a nihilist with the belief that you have a safety belt. If only everyone else could see the danger you do, and belt up like you have.

You are just in denial

No, I am not convinced.

about the fact

Not a "fact", you have opinion.

that anything you do apart from God is vanity.

I am as concerned about this as much as I am concerned that Santa will leave me a lump pf coal in my stocking on Christmas morning.

Perhaps you should spend less time trying to poke holes in the worldviews of others, and look at the shambles your own is in.

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So how do you like your phone? Gimmick or neat edge feature?

I'm still happy with my Note 4.

 

[Davian]

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

but rather that you don't like the fact that we call it "meaning" because we're not accepting that you believe there's a "super ultra" meaning that's given by a god you believe in.

The non-theists here don't care.

I don't like the fact that you are refusing to apply the word "meaningless" in the context that was applied in the op. It is like we were talking about where the best place to get nails for a fence and your calling me stupid for taking lumber to get a manicure!

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[Davian]

I don't like the fact that you are refusing to apply the word "meaningless" in the context that was applied in the op. It is like we were talking about where the best place to get nails for a fence and your calling me stupid for taking lumber to get a manicure!

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If we are free to define words are we please, why do you not simply define "life" as "meaningless biology"?

I will define "religion" as "beliefs that provide the illusion of meaning".

Acceptable?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

So how do you like your phone? Gimmick or neat edge feature?

I'm still happy with my Note 4.

Yeah. I need to figure out how to change that message. I really am not to thrilled about the edge. I can't find a case for it and it keeps hanging up the phone when I put it to my cheek.

 

[Davian]

Let's just say for arguement sake that it is the number of people who will remember you after you die.

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So Stalin got much more meaning from life than your paint-watching guy.

Looks like I have to get busy!

 

[Tinker Grey]

Yeah. I need to figure out how to change that message. I really am not to thrilled about the edge. I can't find a case for it and it keeps hanging up the phone when I put it to my cheek.

Similarly, my Galaxy 5S has buttons hidden in the case. I'm forever bumping something. Irritates the crap outta me.