Is everything "meaningless" without God?

[Nithavela]

But if when you die, all the memories of that beautiful house with the splendid views fade into non-existance along with your consciousness, it would be no different than as if it never existed at all.

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But you don't get it, things do not have to be eternal to have meaning. Things can be transient and still have meaning. Just look at yourself. You can't remember most of your life, can you? Only a small part of your experiences pass into your long-term memory.

You are basically arguing that for all purposes, you might have stared at paint drying during those times.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Exactly.

Exactly wrong. And I think you actually know that, or you'd refute my argument against it. Since you didn't, I'm assuming you can't come up with an argument against it. I do find it very intellectually dishonest to hold a position you know isn't valid...

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

But was end does God's reasons serve? If I serve a king, I have a purpose. But if the king has no meaning or purpose, my meaning appears to lose its effectiveness. So, unless God's self-assigned meaning or purpose serves some end, then we are back where we started. Unless you are claiming a final end. However, I still don't see why I should care. God declared my purpose to love him and others. So?

I already told you what I believe God's purpose is. I don't know for sure because only He knows.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

A straw-man.

Now, back to this "Probably instincts". Can you be more clear on this?

What else could it be?

Does it not seem sufficient for the continuation of a given population?

Ok, then I guess that is how you define meaningless then...a straw-man. What would you call someone who spent his entire life "chasing the wind" to try to catch it?

Animals instinctively protect their offspring in order to ensure the survival of their species.

 

[Chany]

The end goal is to destroy sin and death and only have life everlasting, free from evil. You either want to be a part of this or you don't and would rather cease to exist at the end. God knows who will enjoy the reality of life everlasting and will allow those who don't want what He offers to not exist in that reality.

But why would I want to? That's the point. If there is no compelling reason to buy into God's preordained "meaning", then why should I buy into it?

Why would my life lose any meaning if I did not choose God? If God were loving, why couldn't I exist in a reality apart from him?

 

[Chany]

I already told you what I believe God's purpose is. I don't know for sure because only He knows.

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I am actually going with the meaning you provided. Given that end, why should I care? Why should I care at all, given God's meaning? Why should I love God and others as a reason either for some higher good or as an end in itself?

 

[Hieronymus]

Exactly wrong. And I think you actually know that, or you'd refute my argument against it. Since you didn't, I'm assuming you can't come up with an argument against it. I do find it very intellectually dishonest to hold a position you know isn't valid...

Who are you kidding... smh..

Remember though, that i do not believe life is meaningless.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I provided some clarification in the op. I suggest you read it so we are on the same page. My apologies if I wasn't clear.

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I read the op. And my answer is the same. Things do not need to be eternal to have meaning. Here, let me prove it.

That cookie I'm eating right now? It has meaning to me.

And now it's gone. And eventually, my memory of eating it will be gone.

But it still had meaning when I was eating it.

See, simple.

Why we're still discussing this, I don't know. Actually, I take that back. I do know. The theists here are so unwilling to accept that atheists can have fulfilling, happy lives that they'll invent these ridiculous ideas to try and show us we're not "really" fulfilled and happy...

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Who are you kidding... smh..

Remember though, that i do not believe life is meaningless.

And again, you cannot or will not actually address my rebuttal of your claim.

Until you do, your position that life is meaningless without a god is just an opinion without any merit whatsoever.

 

[Hieronymus]

And again, you cannot or will not actually address my rebuttal of your claim.

Don't flatter yourself, there is no rebuttal.
Bye.

 

[Chriliman]

But why would I want to? That's the point. If there is no compelling reason to buy into God's preordained "meaning", then why should I buy into it?

If you have no reason to believe in God then you won't, but this does not mean God stops giving you reasons in the hope that you will believe in Him. He'll never force you against your will to accept His truth, but He will draw you in and let you make your own choice. This is exactly what we should expect from a loving God.

Why would my life lose any meaning if I did not choose God? If God were loving, why couldn't I exist in a reality apart from him?

You can exist in a reality apart from God. This is why God is coming to us through Jesus Christ, in order to make the wrongs that we caused, right through His forgiveness. If you don't feel you've done anything wrong against God then you won't seek forgiveness from God, but again, this won't stop God from giving you reasons to come to Him, remember He is love.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Don't flatter yourself, there is no rebuttal.
Bye.

Of course there is, I gave it earlier.

Ah, you must have skimmed my previous post and missed it. Here's the rebuttal again for the claim that "meaning is meaningless now if at the end of the universe there's no one around."j

The word "meaning" has no temporal component, and therefore time isn't relevant when considering whether something has meaning or not.

Of course, you can prove me wrong by finding a definition that defines "meaning" as dependent on eternity.

So I'll be waiting for you to do that, or retract your statement...

 

[Davian]

Ok, then I guess that is how you define meaningless then...a straw-man.

Ironically, that would misrepresenting what I meant.

What would you call someone who spent his entire life "chasing the wind" to try to catch it?

A free spirit.

Animals instinctively protect their offspring in order to ensure the survival of their species.

Indeed we do. That's meaning enough for me, and everything else is gravy.

From my perspective, I have never known "gods" to be anything other than fictional characters in books. I don't know what you are expecting to get as a reaction to your shaking of the nihilism stick.

It's not like belief is a conscious choice. Where are you going with this? Even if you found someone to confront your nihilism, what are they going to do?

"I better decide to believe in a god with a great afterlife package, or I'm gonna be really sad. "

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

You don't trust the meaning in the unavoidable, universal, reasonable, good innate desire for parents to take care of their kids.... but you trust a book written by people had never done anything but herd sheep? A book that not one scientist on the planet will stand up and declare is scientifically correct?

When a parent loves a child, when a human gets hungry, when a person doesn't want to die... you don't trust those sentiments you are witnessing at that very moment to be real or reasonable or worthwhile ... but you trust this book, and you don't trust them unless it says so in a book that says donkeys can talk to humans and virgins have kids and that homosexuals deserve to die and two of every animal lived in a boat made by people with no technology or knowledge whatsoever?

3 A man may have a hundred children and live many years; yet no matter how long he lives, if he cannot enjoy his prosperity and does not receive proper burial, I say that a stillborn child is better off than he. 4 It comes without meaning, it departs in darkness, and in darkness its name is shrouded. 5 Though it never saw the sun or knew anything, it has more rest than does that man— 6 even if he lives a thousand years twice over but fails to enjoy his prosperity. Do not all go to the same place?

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

You're acting a fish who swims through the sea over to his fishy friends and begins to argue that Poseidon created water and unless Poseidon is real the water isn't real either. He says that if Poseidon is not real water can't have been made and as he swims in place he declares that water isn't real if Poseidon isn't real. The fish feels that he is on to something mysterious and revels in his confusion because it makes him feel special.

Sounds fishy.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

But you don't get it, things do not have to be eternal to have meaning. Things can be transient and still have meaning. Just look at yourself. You can't remember most of your life, can you? Only a small part of your experiences pass into your long-term memory.

You are basically arguing that for all purposes, you might have stared at paint drying during those times.

So what would you call a man who spent his entire life watching paint dry and how is his life any less meaningful than yours in the end?

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I am actually going with the meaning you provided. Given that end, why should I care? Why should I care at all, given God's meaning? Why should I love God and others as a reason either for some higher good or as an end in itself?

Why should a can opener open cans? Because that is what it was created to do. If it will not open cans, it would be labeled broken and tossed away. Your purpose is to love God and others. If you cannot do that, God will label you broken and your soul will be tossed away.

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[Davian]

So what would you call a man who spent his entire life watching paint dry and how is his life any less meaningful than yours in the end?

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What units do you use to make such measurements?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I read the op. And my answer is the same. Things do not need to be eternal to have meaning. Here, let me prove it.

That cookie I'm eating right now? It has meaning to me.

And now it's gone. And eventually, my memory of eating it will be gone.

But it still had meaning when I was eating it.

See, simple.

Why we're still discussing this, I don't know. Actually, I take that back. I do know. The theists here are so unwilling to accept that atheists can have fulfilling, happy lives that they'll invent these ridiculous ideas to try and show us we're not "really" fulfilled and happy...

Everyone’s toil is for their mouth,
yet their appetite is never satisfied.

Once again, I am not saying you can't enjoy a fulfilling life. The point is that if God is not part of your life, your life is "chasing the wind". It is vanity.

"I denied myself nothing my eyes desired;
I refused my heart no pleasure.
My heart took delight in all my labor,
and this was the reward for all my toil.
Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done
and what I had toiled to achieve,
everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind;
nothing was gained under the sun."

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[Davian]

Why should a can opener open cans? Because that is what it was created to do. If it will not open cans, it would be labeled broken and tossed away. Your purpose is to love God and others. If you cannot do that, God will label you broken and your soul will be tossed away.

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Or, will be [hypothetically] burnt for eternity for reasons beyond your control. What is the purpose of that?