Is Everybody going to heaven?

[Svt4Him]

So Jesus failed on the cross to take away all sin?

Let's see what the Bible says, and we'll use the most famous verse on love:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Who will have everlasting life? Oh, those that believe in the Son. Who again? Oh right, those who believe in the Son. Did the Son fail then? Nope, everyone who believes in Him will be saved. Everyone I say? Yes, everyone. If you consider that failure than I guess He did, but I'd think it's an amazing success that only God could do.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

So Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but offer salvation for all. Will all receive it? Well, perhaps the Bible talks about that as well:

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Why are they condemned? Not because Jesus has failed as you allege, but because they reject God. Why would anyone do that?

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

I'll put those words in red, as they are words Jesus Himself said. Do you think He was confused?

 

[enoch son]

Let's see what the Bible says, and we'll use the most famous verse on love:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Who will have everlasting life? Oh, those that believe in the Son. Who again? Oh right, those who believe in the Son. Did the Son fail then? Nope, everyone who believes in Him will be saved. Everyone I say? Yes, everyone. If you consider that failure than I guess He did, but I'd think it's an amazing success that only God could do.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

So Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but offer salvation for all. Will all receive it? Well, perhaps the Bible talks about that as well:

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Why are they condemned? Not because Jesus has failed as you allege, but because they reject God. Why would anyone do that?

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

I'll put those words in red, as they are words Jesus Himself said. Do you think He was confused?

Stop please fine the word offer in that ver?

 

[DeborahsSong]

Do you think God is incapable of bringing all to the point of belief? He came to destroy the works of the devil, who has darkened the minds of unbelievers. Also, I like Col 1:16: "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisable, whether they be thrones, or dominions or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and for him". And what does he do with all things? The answer is in verse 20 " And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself: by him, I way, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

 

[DeborahsSong]

This is interesting, an no word 'Aion' in sight to squabble over.

Isaiah 66:22-24
"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."

Then let's squabble over "unquenced".

Jer 17:27: "But if you will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched." Fire no longer burns at the gates or palaces of Jerusalem.

Ez 20:45 "Moreover, the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face toward the south, and prophesy against the forest of the south field; and say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the Lord:--Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree, the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therin. And all flesh shall see that I the Lord have kindled it; it shall not be quenched." However, the trees are no longer burning.

A fire that cannot be quenched means that it cannot be stopped until it burns all that is compustible. It is a perfect description of hell's refining fire that throughly burns the dross off mankind.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Stop please fine the word offer in that ver?

John 6:32
Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, Moses didn’t give you bread from heaven. My Father did. And now he offers you the true bread from heaven.
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever; and this bread, which I will offer so the world may live, is my flesh.”

Acts 28:28
So I want you to know that this salvation from God has also been offered to the Gentiles, and they will accept it.”

Romans 2:7
He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers.

Romans 11:12
Now if the Gentiles were enriched because the people of Israel turned down God’s offer of salvation, think how much greater a blessing the world will share when they finally accept it.

Romans 11:15
For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!

 

[Floatingaxe]

Then let's squabble over "unquenced".

Jer 17:27: "But if you will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched." Fire no longer burns at the gates or palaces of Jerusalem.

Ez 20:45 "Moreover, the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face toward the south, and prophesy against the forest of the south field; and say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the Lord:--Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree, the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therin. And all flesh shall see that I the Lord have kindled it; it shall not be quenched." However, the trees are no longer burning.

A fire that cannot be quenched means that it cannot be stopped until it burns all that is compustible. It is a perfect description of hell's refining fire that throughly burns the dross off mankind.

There is nothing scriptural that speaks of hellfire as refining. It is only punishment, unending, and unquenching. It DOESN'T STOP.

Teaching blasphemies such as hell being a place where redemption tales place is a lie of Satan. To believe it is to seriously harm one's relationship with Jesus Christ, replacing Him and the work He has done for a caricature based on folklore and wishful thinking. It's not the real Jesus.

 

[Faulty]

There is nothing scriptural that speaks of hellfire as refining. It is only punishment, unending, and unquenching. It DOESN'T STOP.

Teaching blasphemies such as hell being a place where redemption tales place is a lie of Satan. To believe it is to seriously harm one's relationship with Jesus Christ, replacing Him and the work He has done for a caricature based on folklore and wishful thinking. It's not the real Jesus.

Agreed. I find it interesting that both passages cited are not conditional at all. There is no "it won't be quenched until...". It simply says the fire will not be quenched, PERIOD!

The scripture has to be added to in order for the argument to look correct. Weak, very weak.

 

[Faulty]

Then let's squabble over "unquenced".

Jer 17:27: "But if you will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched." Fire no longer burns at the gates or palaces of Jerusalem.

Ez 20:45 "Moreover, the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face toward the south, and prophesy against the forest of the south field; and say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the Lord:--Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree, the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therin. And all flesh shall see that I the Lord have kindled it; it shall not be quenched." However, the trees are no longer burning.

A fire that cannot be quenched means that it cannot be stopped until it burns all that is compustible. It is a perfect description of hell's refining fire that throughly burns the dross off mankind.

Sorry. You are adding into the passage to make your doctrine fit. Please do better.

 

[Svt4Him]

Stop please fine the word offer in that ver?

Find the words net present value in that verse.

 

[enoch son]

John 6:32
Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, Moses didn’t give you bread from heaven. My Father did. And now he offers you the true bread from heaven.
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Anyone who eats this bread will live forever; and this bread, which I will offer so the world may live, is my flesh.”

Acts 28:28
So I want you to know that this salvation from God has also been offered to the Gentiles, and they will accept it.”

Romans 2:7
He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers.

Romans 11:12
Now if the Gentiles were enriched because the people of Israel turned down God’s offer of salvation, think how much greater a blessing the world will share when they finally accept it.

Romans 11:15
For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!

I'm glad you qoute the ver being talked about. Oh wait you didn't (firgues) I don't know what bible your are useing but the NAS-young's literal and the king james don't write the vers. like you have written them. I would get more then one input to the word. But ha that me and you are. Sorry! I don't know what to call it.

 

[enoch son]

Find the words net present value in that verse.

It's what about written not what one thinks about it. The value of what you speak about is one of man and not of God.

 

[Svt4Him]

Wow, ignore the verse because of why again? You will notice the red was actually Jesus, so it would actually be God speaking.

Let's see what the Bible says, and we'll use the most famous verse on love:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Sadly there is not a poll response to the way I believe. (Actually it would be very complex if there were)

 

[enoch son]

Wow, ignore the verse because of why again? You will notice the red was actually Jesus, so it would actually be God speaking.

Let's see what the Bible says, and we'll use the most famous verse on love:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

It's about the Father by the son. The Him is the Father. The son is the way by which the fact is stated by the Father. Romans 8;1 my friend. This has nothing to do with our salvation. The He is Jesus who believe in the Father and then gave it to us as a gift. Only the self rightous would think there belief saved them.

 

[Svt4Him]

Sorry friend, if I read John, I have to take it for what it says. Nothing self-righteous about believing Jesus, seems that is what we are suppose to do.

And let's look at Romans 8:1

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

There is no condemnation for who? All? No, but for those who are in Christ Jesus. How do you know them? Well, they don't walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. I don't see how this is supporting your view.

 

[Floatingaxe]

What a twisted view of salvation some people have! We must believe to avail oneself of the gift of God in Jesus christ. If you don't avail yourself of the washing of the blood, then you are not washed! Plainly taught!

The unwashed sinners do not find a welcome in heaven. Their names would have never had an opportunity to be written in the Lamb's Book if Life. That's the sad but real truth.


Prayer for people who remain blind to the truth when it is right before them is so necessary! That kind of blindness needs deliverance.

 

[DeborahsSong]

Well, I love the emphasis on the Father that Enoch Son has highlighted. Christ is, indeed, the Father's road to himself, and he will eventually shoo all men upon it. For he (not man) reconciles (changes thoroughly) those who are alienated and enemies in their minds by wicked works.(Col 1:21).

It is the will of God that all men be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). His will is the destiny of all men. "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" (Eph 1:5). God works out everything in accordance with his will (Eph 1:11). No man's puny will can set itself against the will of God. "For the LORD Almighty has purposed and who can thwart him...." Isa 14:27.

It's just a matter of time. Now, some men's theology constrains God to work out his will in a man's lifetime (aion) and more often then not, be thwarted in his attempt, even though they have never produced one scripture to support their restriction. God's word, however, states "That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather togethe in one all things in Christ both which are in heaven and which are on earth; even in him:" Eph 1:10.

 

[Svt4Him]

Have to stick with the clear words of Jesus when He said that those who believe will be saved, those who don't are condemned, forever and ever (aion).

 

[TasManOfGod]

The question of who goes to heaven is not a matter of how we interpret Scripture but rather ultimately what the will of the Father is
Having read scripture it is plain to me that every person ever born, no even conceived, WILL get to meet the Son in heaven and only those not willing not to spend eternity with their creator will be "excused" from doing so.

 

[DeborahsSong]

Have to stick with the clear words of Jesus when He said that those who believe will be saved, those who don't are condemned, forever and ever (aion).

I'll stick with the clear words of Jesus and disagree with you, since I'm not bound by 17th century suppositions. True, belief is required, but God determines when.

In the Greek your "forever and ever" is "eternity of eternities", which is nonsensical. How is it that literal translations of the bible can consistently translate aion as a temporal term, yet it is impossible to consistently translate aion as "eternity"?

When we say in English that a tree will never produce fruit again, there is an implicit understanding that we are talking about a time horizon within the normal life of a tree. However, the Greek aion explicitly conveys this meaning.