Is Everybody going to heaven?

[Cassidy]

39 says burned in the fire

But then there's no clarification of the word 'fire' then is there?

Field = world
Good seed = children of the kingdom
Tares = children of the wicked one
Enemy = the devil
Harvest = end of world
Reapers = Angels
Fire = ?????

Fire is left out! So that leads one to assume that the only part this would be literal is the 'fire'. Since everything else is explained.

Why is the fire the only word left out in Jesus' explanation on what everything means?

 

[Cassidy]

Everyone is raised to life with a glorified flesh body. Without one, one could not withstand the presence of God. The Lake of Fire is a physical fire which has an unquenchable nature, and so do the glorified spiritual bodies that are thrown in.

How can a spiritual body be thrown into a physical fire? I thought flesh was flesh and spirit was spirit. I thought that the flesh is dealt with physically and the spirit is dealt with spiritually.

 

[Floatingaxe]

You know, that's true. Revelation 21:27 says that.

So when the wicked die (physically), they immediately go to hell? And then later face God at the Judgement mentioned in Revelation 20:15?

There is definitely some confusion with the word, "hell".

No one is in hell, as in "Lake of Fire" right now. That is a reserved place for the end of all things. Satan and his angels go there after the battle. Then its gates are opened for the wicked.

Now, however as the wicked sadly lose their lives physically, they go to the place of the unrighteous dead--hell or hades, (not the "lake"). Some people believe they have no consciousness, but sleep awaiting their resurrection to the GWT judgment. Others believe they await, conscious in their spirits. their sentencing.

 

[Floatingaxe]

How can a spiritual body be thrown into a physical fire? I thought flesh was flesh and spirit was spirit. I thought that the flesh is dealt with physically and the spirit is dealt with spiritually.

This fire will burn anything. You should see the element of sulfur's remains at the sites of Sodom and Gomorrah--unearthly! You know, I trust God to know what kind of punishment is fitting. The place of Hellfire is created for Satan and his angels--so if it torments them, who have spiritual substance, then by all means, it shall suffice to torment lost mankind.

We will have fleshly bodies in heaven, so why wouldn't those who are in hell?

Glorified flesh is what we are talking about--that is flesh that can withstand glory. That is the spiritual body we shall be given.

 

[Cassidy]

I just didn't think that those who have rejected Christ received a glorified body. Is there a scripture referring to this?

 

[Floatingaxe]

I just didn't think that those who have rejected Christ received a glorified body. Is there a scripture referring to this?

People dead for centuries have no body. Some dead have been utterly destroyed. They will receive a new one to stand before God. No one can see God or stand before him and live! His glory kills you in the natural!

The only way for people to withstand God's glory without disintegrating is to have a glorified body. Now, if the sinner is not given flesh--I am OK with that, but their spirits will stand before God and their spirits will be cast into the lake of fire along with Satan and his demons--who have spiritual bodies.

Either way, I'm fine with either view, as there is no distinct reference. However, as the first resurrection is for believers, and are given bodies, why shouldn't the second resurrection provide bodies when it clearly says they come to life again? (Revelation 20:5)

 

[Cassidy]

We receive new bodies because our flesh is redeemed through Christ. But our flesh will no longer be flesh because 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God', Our flesh will have to join with our spirit body and change into a spirit body...to enter the kingdom. The non-believer's flesh is not redeemed through Christ. We share in his birth, death and resurrection and our mortal bodies will be quickened by the Holy Spirit. But the unbeliever's bodies will not.

Ashes to ashes dust to dust...their bodies will go back to wence they came, but it's their spiritual bodies that will be raised up to stand before God to give account. And I just can't see how, since our spiritual bodies are filled with a spiritual fire that they can't be thrown into a spiritual fire, since they are spirit.

 

[TasManOfGod]

The poll questions do not embrace the complete understanding of the concept of "hell"

 

[HEisGoodalways]

People dead for centuries have no body. Some dead have been utterly destroyed. They will receive a new one to stand before God. No one can see God or stand before him and live! His glory kills you in the natural!

The only way for people to withstand God's glory without disintegrating is to have a glorified body. Now, if the sinner is not given flesh--I am OK with that, but their spirits will stand before God and their spirits will be cast into the lake of fire along with Satan and his demons--who have spiritual bodies.

Either way, I'm fine with either view, as there is no distinct reference. However, as the first resurrection is for believers, and are given bodies, why shouldn't the second resurrection provide bodies when it clearly says they come to life again? (Revelation 20:5)

The flesh goes back to dust, but the dead spirit because it was not born again in there lifetime is raised a spiritual body, goes to the GWT and bows the spiritual knee and then refined in the firey spiritual lake, and they make it because HIS mercy endures forever, they are fearfully and wonderfully formed and fashioned in there mothers womb, in His image but were not chosen in there lifetime, they will make it, but with no reward

We will rule and reign with Jesus!!!

 

[HEisGoodalways]

We receive new bodies because our flesh is redeemed through Christ. But our flesh will no longer be flesh because 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God', Our flesh will have to join with our spirit body and change into a spirit body...to enter the kingdom. The non-believer's flesh is not redeemed through Christ. We share in his birth, death and resurrection and our mortal bodies will be quickened by the Holy Spirit. But the unbeliever's bodies will not.

Ashes to ashes dust to dust...their bodies will go back to wence they came, but it's their spiritual bodies that will be raised up to stand before God to give account. And I just can't see how, since our spiritual bodies are filled with a spiritual fire that they can't be thrown into a spiritual fire, since they are spirit.

That is why it is my point

The lake of fire or hell fire is spiritual, and as "Our God is a consuming fire" He will consume all of there wickedness, but they won't have any reward

 

[Cassidy]

I still don't buy it because the 'wheat and the tares' parable keeps yelling at me...there's something amiss there.

If it's a spiritual fire why can't it destroy their spiritual bodies the same as if it were a physcial fire and physical bodies? We get the refinement because that is what we chose...but they didn't choose this, instead they choose to reject christ, why are they then given the priviledge of refinement?

 

[brinny]

Found on a tombstone epitaph:

"Remember friend as you pass by, as you are now so once was I - as I am now you too shall be, prepare for death and follow me!"

Someone had written underneath:

"To follow thee I'm not content, until I know which way you went!"

 

[Floatingaxe]

We receive new bodies because our flesh is redeemed through Christ. But our flesh will no longer be flesh because 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God', Our flesh will have to join with our spirit body and change into a spirit body...to enter the kingdom. The non-believer's flesh is not redeemed through Christ. We share in his birth, death and resurrection and our mortal bodies will be quickened by the Holy Spirit. But the unbeliever's bodies will not.

We will be like Jesus--He is glorified flesh. But the unbeliever could be raised to stand in spirit a you suggest, or in the same form as we are ultimately to be...alive in flesh, glorified to withstand the power of devastating glory.

Ashes to ashes dust to dust...their bodies will go back to wence they came, but it's their spiritual bodies that will be raised up to stand before God to give account. And I just can't see how, since our spiritual bodies are filled with a spiritual fire that they can't be thrown into a spiritual fire, since they are spirit.

Spiritual fire? Where did that come from? Waxing poetic?

 

[HEisGoodalways]

I still don't buy it because the 'wheat and the tares' parable keeps yelling at me...there's something amiss there.

If it's a spiritual fire why can't it destroy their spiritual bodies the same as if it were a physcial fire and physical bodies? We get the refinement because that is what we chose...but they didn't choose this, instead they choose to reject christ, why are they then given the priviledge of refinement?

He chose us, and we were drawn by the Spirit in our lifetime, they weren't drawn by the Spirit in there lifetime, the reason they rejected Christ is because they were not chosen and drawn and wooed by His love

 

[HEisGoodalways]

He chose us, and we were drawn by the Spirit in our lifetime, they weren't drawn by the Spirit in there lifetime, the reason they rejected Christ is because they were not chosen and drawn and wooed by His love

We are only saved thru thru Holy Spirits drawing and wooing

 

[Cassidy]

We will be like Jesus--He is glorified flesh. sorry, but you must rethink yourself.

Could you show me a scripture about Christ being glorified flesh? As far as I'm aware, He is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cassidy]

He chose us, and we were drawn by the Spirit in our lifetime, they weren't drawn by the Spirit in there lifetime, the reason they rejected Christ is because they were not chosen and drawn and wooed by His love

That leans on the calvinist side there and I agree with this, however it says in Romans 1 that they are without excuse...so they still don't deserve the priviledge of refinement.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The flesh goes back to dust, but the dead spirit because it was not born again in there lifetime is raised a spiritual body, goes to the GWT and bows the spiritual knee and then refined in the firey spiritual lake, and they make it because HIS mercy endures forever, they are fearfully and wonderfully formed and fashioned in there mothers womb, in His image but were not chosen in there lifetime, they will make it, but with no reward

We will rule and reign with Jesus!!!

The only refining that goes on is 1000 years before where the righteous are to give account to Jesus Christ for their walk. That is a fire that one could consider refining. all the wood, hay and stubble of our works is sifted out and what stands is our works done with correct motives--for Jesus!

There is NO refining fire in Gehenna! Garbage that is incinerated is forever garbage.

Don't rewrite Scripture and pass it off as truth. That is something tha one will be ashamed before God to admit.

 

[Floatingaxe]

That is why it is my point

The lake of fire or hell fire is spiritual, and as "Our God is a consuming fire" He will consume all of there wickedness, but they won't have any reward

God doesn't consume any of their wickedness! That is a fallacy. He pronounces JUDGMENT on the sinner and the sinner who rejected the sacrifice of Jesus will himself pay with his own life for his own sin. The blood doesn't cover the wicked.

It's an understatement that there will be no reward for them!

 

[Floatingaxe]

I still don't buy it because the 'wheat and the tares' parable keeps yelling at me...there's something amiss there.

If it's a spiritual fire why can't it destroy their spiritual bodies the same as if it were a physcial fire and physical bodies? We get the refinement because that is what we chose...but they didn't choose this, instead they choose to reject christ, why are they then given the priviledge of refinement?

If that wonderful parable is yelling at you--it is the Holy Spirit telling you to listen. Stop and listen to Him. The truth is in there.

Wheat is precious and worthy to be reaped and gathered into His barn. Tares, who refuse to bow (literally, tares' heads do not bend at harvest time like wheat heads do--that is what makes them discernible to the reapers!) are worthless and cast into the furnace. No use for them, No getting out, either.