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"Jehovah", or what you personally believe Jehovah was saying?
God does not send people to hell...
Sin does.
Oh he's adorable! I love it!Meet Sir Licks-a-lot, my warrior cat! En garde!
It's basically been shouted from the rooftops around here, though I'm sure unintentionally.
If one believes that God, who knows the end from the beginning, sacrifices His Son on the cross knowing that only a small portion of mankind will believe unto salvation, He is (following their logic) in effect dying for only a small fraction of humanity. By setting up even the tiniest rule that one must do something to be saved, knowing that most will not do that one little thing, He is, in effect, neglecting that portion of humanity.
I still say that the type of salvation which specifically required believing was that of escaping the Judgment which took place during the fall of Jerusalem in AD70. Those who believed on Jesus are those in Judea who would flee to the mountains to escape the foretold events taking place (see Matthew 24).
Take the statement in
Acts 16:31: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved – you and your household." The general understanding of getting saved is that we can only believe for ourselves – our believing in Jesus doesn't automatically save those around us. So obviously there was something on the temporal realm from which believers would be saved that this guy's family would be saved by just his believing alone. That could very well have been Judgment day, AD70.
Amen!
"Perish" is a very broad term; I don't see how it must be limited to just "going to hell when we die" (especially since "hell" wasn't even in the original texts). As I said, I think that the perishing from which belief saved them was that wrought by God's wrath through Jerusalem's fall.
Amen. Those who didn't believe what was prophesied remained in Jerusalem, living life as though the Messiah had not been in their midst, and got creamed when Jerusalem fell big-time in 70 AD.
It's a great analogy just the way it is.And from the AD70 perspective, the dish-washer certainly didn't get off work. Because he didn't believe the Messiah and what was foretold, he chose to remain in Jerusalem "washing the dishes" that come with an old covenant Jewish lifestyle and paid dearly when the tribulation accompanying Jerusalem's Judgment Day arrived.
Could you perhaps address the post and not put words in people's mouths? Thanks in advance!
Well, based on the overall feedback I've been getting, it would seem to me you are the only one having trouble understanding my posts.ok. whatever it is you're attempting here or path you're trodding...or why you even post in this thread is beyond me haha
...gotta say, i did not know anything about UR, but i have learned, according to your posts here, it's the epitome of lack of clarity.....
semms kinda a muddled mish mash of jibberish to me.
Was this post meant for a different thread? I'm not sure which post you're addressing here....Hmmmm...Floatingaxe has a point...come to think of it...it's just a round about way to say...Doth God really say....is Jesus really the only way to salvation?
That's as old as that conversation between Eve and the serpent, isn't it?
I agree, belief makes all the difference in the world. However, God is the one who alone chooses who believes on Him now and who doesn't.
Those He doesn't choose to have believe on Him now are not going to be cursed eternally for something that they could not do for themselves apart from His granting it to them in the first place.
"Jehovah", or what you personally believe Jehovah was saying?
Hmmmm...Floatingaxe has a point...come to think of it...it's just a round about way to say...Doth God really say....is Jesus really the only way to salvation?
That's as old as that conversation between Eve and the serpent, isn't it?
FA, again, remember what you rightly said in post #470:
Pigeon-holing is not appropriate here... Now on to impersonal discussion, please!
1. "Hell" is not in the bible.
2. Jesus went through quite a bit of trouble to take away the sin of the world so that it wouldn't have any victory over us.
3. Assuming there were a "hell", God is omniscient. He knows the end from the beginning. If He, armed with this knowledge, knows that an individual will reject Him and land themselves in "hell", and yet He creates them anyway, in spite of knowing this about them, then He is, in effect, sending them to "hell".
Amen! And who causes us to be reborn?Only those in Christ will live. Eternal life is found only in Christ. All those born into Adam's race will suffer death because of their sin. That is our destiny--but in Christ, that destiny is altered. All those reborn into Christ will live. Those who do are not reborn in Him will meet their default destiny and die as sinners.
"Just the way it is", is not good enough. A rudimentary reading is insufficient.
Your analogy isn't the Word of God, Jesus is the Word of God. Again, I was referring to your analogy when I said that it was great just the way it is.When we read the Word of God, we must always remember to ask the Holy Spirit to open our eyes to what He is telling us.
What are you distinguishing as being two events?Matthew 24 refers to two events.
I'm sorry, FA, but the statement about Jesus lying was yours, and yours alone. Again, please try to avoid putting words into other people's mouths. If that's is the best you can do at this point, I will conclude that you simply don't have any solid responses to what I've been communicating thus far, and must resort to setting up straw men just to have something to argue against.
Stop telling the world that Jesus lies whern he tells us that few will find Him. I will always defend His Word.
Since you are the one making this assertion, it's up to you to provide Scriptural references to back it up. Or, at the very least, show us where anyone here has said "if one does not believe in Jesus Christ as Savior, will not pay for their sins with death".
Please give us the Scriptural reference that tells us all that if one does not believe in Jesus Christ as Saviour, is not going to pay for their sins with death.
It would seem you beat me to it. Which is fine, because I wouldn't say such a thing in the first place.Tell us that they can forget about God's great sacrifice in providing salvation in this life and they can defer it until later
You are making this assertion, so it's up to you to back it up with Scripture.Please tell us how God has plainly told us this truth, so that it is unmistakeable--in other words, that salvation in this life is deferrable until the next.
Me too. Where are you getting this? What do you mean by "bothering to know" Jesus? It is God who grants this knowledge, so any "bothering to do" anything towards that end is for Him to bring about.I want to see it. I want to see how God has told us that the wages of sin is NOT death, and that the gift of God which is eternal life is for all those who didn't bother to know Jesus.
Amen!Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
We could add to that list, but it might make some in this section of CF extremely uncomfortable.It's as plain as the nose on my face. It is as simple as refuting a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon or a Muslim, or any other cult.
True. The word "hell" was not in the original God-breathed texts. Translators added it in later.
FALSE.
That's for sure!TRUE. Too bad it is treated so nonchalantly.
"Armed with knowledge" is a figure of speech. It's a U.S. thing, I guess.Why should He be "armed"?
Yes, yes He did! Amen.God created us to know Him.
Very true.We all have that inner knowledge of God, and we need to know Jesus.
Who is behind the receiving and rejecting? Who hardens Whom He will harden? Who has mercy on Whom He will have mercy?We are given that choice to receive or reject---some of us many times, some of us, once only.
Please show me the verses that say "what we do with Christ in this life is what determines our eternal destination."What we do with Christ in this life is what determines our eternal destination.
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