Is Everybody going to heaven?

[imperfectchristian]

Hitler, Stalin, Osma bin Laden, Nero, Bloody Mary, fill in the blank...

???


Just curious to hear everyone's answers and explanations...

 

[Faithful Love]

Hell is much bigger than what people think.

Heaven is much smaller than what people think.


Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[darkshadow]

Hell is real, look at the book of Revelation. Talks about the second death and the burning lake of fire.

 

[enoch son]

This is a joke right???? The hell doctrine that came from RCC chruch has been around for what 1000 yrs. and 90 percent of the world is still going there. Now that sounds like a work of man not God to me. To ask for one to take out the book and study it in the greek and heb. on this subject is to much to ask. Man would rather sit it the pew like they did 1000 yrs. ago and paid money to stay safe.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Truth has never been the province of the majority -- nor does it get determined by polls or majority votes. So it really does not matter how many vote one way or the other. The Truth bes established beyond the veil of human perception. Perhaps the narrow path bes called narrow because it bes the opposite of what the majority believes. Ever think of that? Seriously -- if the way of life bes narrow then clearly Truth does not reside within the big broad highway spectrum of what the majority swallow as fixed and absolute when it comes to God. Clearly it resides elsewhere.

The reason it bes called God's "strange act" would be because it does NOT turn out to be what everyone anticipates. Strange means unfamiliar and therefore in this case, unforeseen. If the majority throughout the centuries have been waiting for God to roast or annihilate into oblivion everyone perceived to be "disagreeing" with Him (which in reality bes only those disagreeing with the arbitrarily-designated "orthodoxy" of whatever locale and time period they live in, yawn, more human vanity thinking that constitutes disagreement with God ...) then a STRANGE act would be one that exists OUTSIDE those expectations rather than fulfilling them.

 

[ANM29]

This is a joke right???? The hell doctrine that came from RCC chruch has been around for what 1000 yrs. and 90 percent of the world is still going there. Now that sounds like a work of man not God to me. To ask for one to take out the book and study it in the greek and heb. on this subject is to much to ask. Man would rather sit it the pew like they did 1000 yrs. ago and paid money to stay safe.

and to add, they made sure to translate it to FOREVER!....The enemy had a plan to pervert the word of God, but God has a plan to make ALL things alright.

 

[Faulty]

This is a joke right????

That was my thought. Of course everyone's not going to Heaven.

God spent thousands of years bringing about a solution to reconcile man to Himself, suffered the humiliation of the cross, then spent almost 2000 years since to show His mercy and continue to call us to repentance. I've never known God to do useless things, and His grand plan would have been worthless had separation from God only been a temporary glitch.

 

[icedtea]

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Now the bible is either correct or lying with this verse. I say its true.

 

[DeborahsSong]

FaultySurplus. It's a pretty poor solution if the majority of Adam's race are going to Hell. It's a grand solution, if all go to Heaven. Christ came to destroy the work of the enemy. He's earned an A+.

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, 'All things are put in subjection,' it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all." I Cor 15:22-28

Note that death, which is separation from God, is the last enemy to be destroyed. So, the "end" Paul references cannot occur at the white throne judgement or during the lake of fire experience. Indeed, the very term "second death" demonstrates death is active. Fire, a purifying force will consume death. This process does not go on for "ever and ever", for the Greek text uses a temporal term "age of the ages".

Also, Paul is very careful about the way he uses "all things". He specifically notes the one exception even though it could be inferred from the text.

Isa 1:24-26 describes God's way of dealing with His enemies. He smelts them and burns away their dross, restores their judges (rulers) and makes them into a righteous city. Since death is all dross, all of it is destroyed. Adamic rebels are destroyed as metal ore is destroyed. The slag is separated from the metal, then the precious metal is removed. That is why Jesus said the wicked would be thrown into a fiery furnace, kaminos, which in the Greek is a refining furnace.

 

[icedtea]

That was my thought. Of course everyone's not going to Heaven.

God spent thousands of years bringing about a solution to reconcile man to Himself, suffered the humiliation of the cross, then spent almost 2000 years since to show His mercy and continue to call us to repentance. I've never known God to do useless things, and His grand plan would have been worthless had separation from God only been a temporary glitch.

You have wisdom.

 

[Svt4Him]

It's a pretty poor solution if the majority of Adam's race are going to Hell. It's a grand solution, if all go to Heaven.

As nice as this sounds, it is simply not a good picture. it's not a solution to go to hell, it's a consequence of sin. Since all have sinned, all should pay that consequence. They paid it in the OT they paid it in the NT. Now in the new testament, Jesus became a perfect sacrifice, that is totally true and eternally amazing if you really study it. But the sacrifice in the OT was a shadow of the NT, and you never ever find anywhere in the OT or the NT that a sacrifice made, either yearly or the perfect one, atoned for all sins of all people who never repented. The message Jesus preached was repent and believe that your sins may be forgiven, not repent and believe, or do whatever, because your sins are already forgiven.

God resists the proud, gives grace to the humble. Always has, always will. I don't see a verse that God has changed that, and you can find Him resisting the proud in the NT.

As for the other misuse of the greek, here's some other things that use the same 'temporal term'

Universalists assume that "aion" is denoting "a period of time" or "an indeterminable amount of time." If this is true, several problems are introduced and are contradictory to the attributes of the most High God. Not to also mention, that acceptance of this definition for "aion" also contradicts and denies the universalist defintion of endless life. How can we live endlessly with a God that is "temporarily" righteous, is not immortal, has no glory, is not wise, has no endless kingdom, and does not abide endlessly?
Let us examine some attributes of God within the context of the verse's with the word "aion" contained within these verses:[SIZE=+2]If and only if, "aion" is temporary then the following assumptions must be true[/SIZE]

• The glory of God is temporary (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, Revelation 22:5, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, Galatians 1:5, Romans 1:23 and Philippians 4:20)
• The righteousness of God is also temporary, which is implying that God is a sinner! (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1 Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, John 12:34, John 14:16 and 2Corinthians 9:9)
• God lives only temporarily, God eventually dies. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)
• God's Kingdom is temporary, (contradicts: Revelation 22:5, Daniel 7:18, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, and Ephesians 1:21)
• God is only wise temporarily, God is apparently unwise later on. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, Romans 16:27 and Jude 1:25)
• God is incorruptible temporarily, (contradicts: 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, 2Corinthians 9:9 and Romans 1:23)
• God is not immortal, God eventually dies. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)
• God abide's only temporarily, (contradicts: 1Peter 1:23, John 12:34 and John 14:16)

1Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal[aion], immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.
1Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they (his servants---Rev. 22:3) shall reign for ever[aion] and ever[aion].
Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible(1 Cor. 15:52), by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever[aion].
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever[aion]. Amen.
Revelation 10:6 "And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are,..."
1John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever[aion].
Matthew 6:13 "...For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever[aion]. Amen."
John 12:34 "...that Christ abideth for ever[aion]:..."
John 14:16 "...the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever[aion];..."
Romans 1:23 "...And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God..."
Romans 1:25 "...the Creator, who is blessed for ever[aion]. Amen."
Romans 9:5 "... Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever[aion]. Amen."
Romans 16:27 "To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever[aion]..."
2Corinthians 9:9 "...his righteousness remaineth for ever[aion]."
Galatians 1:5 To whom [be] glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Philippians 4:20 Now unto God and our Father [be] glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.

Quoted from http://www.1john57.com/aion.htm, [SIZE=-1]by Don C. Hewey[/SIZE]

 

[MrSnow]

I voted undecided.

I tend to think that most people's doctrine of 'hell' is far too elaborate than what is given in Scripture. I don't like to even use the word 'hell', it not being a scriptural word, and all the theological baggage coming with it.

I find Rev 20:13-15 to be pretty intriguing.

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

So Death and Hades (more or less the Greek equivalent of Sheol from the OT) give up the dead that they possessed. After that, both Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Then all who are not written in the book of life are thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the Second Death.

Well, we know what the First Death is (to a degree). But in this book of very elaborate imagery, what exactly is the nature of the Lake of Fire? In what way is it the "Second Death"? How does that compare to the First Death? What is the significance of Death and Hades giving up their dead? What is the significance of the First Death being thrown into the Second Death? I can't say I know the answer to those questions.

 

[enoch son]

I voted undecided.

I tend to think that most people's doctrine of 'hell' is far too elaborate than what is given in Scripture. I don't like to even use the word 'hell', it not being a scriptural word, and all the theological baggage coming with it.

I find Rev 20:13-15 to be pretty intriguing.

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

So Death and Hades (more or less the Greek equivalent of Sheol from the OT) give up the dead that they possessed. After that, both Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Then all who are not written in the book of life are thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the Second Death.

Well, we know what the First Death is (to a degree). But in this book of very elaborate imagery, what exactly is the nature of the Lake of Fire? In what way is it the "Second Death"? How does that compare to the First Death? What is the significance of Death and Hades giving up their dead? What is the significance of the First Death being thrown into the Second Death? I can't say I know the answer to those questions.

Read it agian my friend where does it say any of the dead where throw in. Death was hades was. I see no people here to speak.( the flesh is not a person) People have mixed up things with people.

 

[enoch son]

People must understand that flesh and blood don't make it. But flesh and blood is not what a person is.

 

[Rajni]

Hitler, Stalin, Osma bin Laden, Nero, Bloody Mary, fill in the blank...

???


Just curious to hear everyone's answers and explanations...

I believe everyone's going to end up in heaven, yes.

Whether one is Hitler or Anne of Green Gables, in God's eyes we are all in the same boat sin-wise. When God's standard of perfection is taken into consideration, comparing each other's sins is pointless. The fallen human condition under which one person builds a concentration camp is the same fallen condition under which someone else tells a "white lie".

Jesus is the Savior of the world, not just Savior of a small percentage of it.




.

 

[enoch son]

As I said flesh and blood don't make it. Everybody was placed on the tree of shame. Oh-bye the was He didn't ask you if He could do it! It was just done'

 

[LeadWorship]

So let's live like hell and enjoy the ride because no matter what I'm going to heaven!!! WAHOOO!!!!!

I'm glad the truth has been presented to me in this thread. And here I thought that a sacrifice had to be accepted as that before it could be claimed! I didn't know that God could accept our salvation for us! Praise be!!

 

[icedtea]

Very good points, leadworship. Some cannot see..

 

[icedtea]

And all the many verses which clearly state hell and forever are misinterpreted. They Really mean something else, all of them. or maybe they are all huge mistakes left there by mistake.

 

[Rajni]

So let's live like hell and enjoy the ride because no matter what I'm going to heaven!!! WAHOOO!!!!!

So that's the only tangible difference between a believer and a non-believer -- their status after death? You don't see any real benefit, or difference, in having a relationship with the Lord here on earth, now?

1 John 4:19 says "We love Him, because He first loved us." It doesn't say "we love Him because He first threatened us with torture or annihilation if we didn't."

I didn't know that God could accept our salvation for us! Praise be!!

Like pretty much everything else in our lives, including our very existence, our salvation was decided without our vote or permission in the matter. So, yeah, Praise be is right!