Is divorce a sin?

[sioleabha]

How does a divorce with a restraining order protect you more than a legal seperation with a restraining order? I'm assuming that you'd get a restraining order, otherwise neither is much protection at all. If you think an abusive person will stop hurting you just because you aren't in the same house anymore, well, that's naive.

The only difference between these options is whether the marriage is dissolved, right? With a divorce, you deciding to leave the marriage behind you and move on. You'll probably date again, maybe remarry. With a legal seperation, you intend to keep the marriage. You're away from the abuse, but you keep your marriage vows. You don't date, and you can't remarry. You pray for your husband, and trust God. Maybe you stay apart for the rest of your lives, but as long as you stay faithful both in celibacy and prayer, you have not violated your marriage.

Some people would say you "deserve" a new love. You "deserve" to remarry and be happy. But are your "rights" more important than God's commandments?

 

[MangoTheCat]

What constitutes adultery? Lusting after another but not acting on it? Kissing someone else? Does it have to include a complete physical sexual encounter? What about sexual abuse of a child? Would divorce be wrong in any of these situations?

 

[sioleabha]

Sexual abuse of anyone would definitely be adultery (and worse). Kissing someone else would be as well. And, yes, lustful thoughts are adultery:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:28)

But I think that divorce on those grounds might be following the letter of the law rather than the spirit. If you really felt that betrayed, you should pray about it and see where God leads you.

 

[JillLars]

Why not make use of all of the legal options that fall short of what we are told not to do instead of trying to justify what our minds have been told is right by society?

Your logic about using legal seperation instead of divorce really doesn't make sense. The bible says not to send your husband or wife away except in the case of adultery, wouldn't legal seperation be sending them away. There was no legal seperation in biblical times, so I don't see how we can logically say its a sin to divorce, but not to legally seperate, in biblical times they would have been the same thing. I don't think its dangerous to assume we misinterpreted something about marriage and divorce in the bible, I do think its dangerous to assume that God wants people to stay in abusive relationships, and I don't think you understand the persecution many women face from Christians who criticize her efforts to provide herself and her children with a safe home. I understand that you are saying "legal seperation, not divorce", but playing legalities with it isn't a safe approach either. I guess we just have different interpretations, but nothing in the bible makes me think that Jesus would encourage someone to remain in an abusive marriage.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

You directly contradict Christ's very words in what you say though, how is there nothing to convince you? Christ stated very plainly the one ond only reason for divorce, there is not any wiggle room so to speak. You either believe Christ's words to be the final authority or you don't, that is your choice to be sure, as we all have free will.

Your analysis that legal seperation would constitute divorce in Biblical times is incorrect. There was a decree then as well, read what the men that were questioning Christ said to him, they refer to the documentation required. We have many things that were not available in Biblical times but that does not mean we shouldn't use them. Christ never spoke of driving on freeways but we do that daily. We can make use of the legal means we have to remain in marriage and still protect ourselves and not be in violation of the scriptures. The point is what the end result will be. The end result of divorce is a dissolving of the marriage and the end result of a seperation is the healing of the marriage.

Where is the conviction to follow what Christ said? Where is the respect for His authority? It seems to be absent here. This is a dangerous trend in the church, we find stuff we don't like in the Bible so we just don't follow it and come up with reasons why we don't, such as "nothing in the bible makes me think that Jesus would encourage someone to remain in an abusive marriage". This is justifying a pre-decided belief and nothing more. The plain and simple fact is that there is nothing in the Bible to back that postion and in fact may things to refute it. This is a sign of the moral relatavism of the world creeping into and corrupting the church. We should stand firm in faith and follow the scriptures, not try to figure out why we don't have to follow them.

While I don't advocate persecution of anyone, someone seeking a divorce for non-Biblical reasons should be corrected. This should be done in a loving manner and in accordance with scripture as well. There is in fact a set of instructions on how to do just that. That is correct someone, not correct someone for divorce specifically. This rampant embracing of the destruction of a union set forth by God is quite frankly wrong. The scripture says "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." I know for a fact that I don't want to be the man that seperates what God has put together and why you would advocate that is beyond me. There are plenty of other options that you seemingly brush off in your rush to justify divorce in a manner that is not justifiable according to scripture. These verses are plain even in the original Greek, which I would happy to post as well.

The plain and simple fact is that Christ gave one reason for divorce and excluded all other reasons as well. The wonderful thing is that we do have grace and even if a woman goes against God in this situation, His grace is sufficient for her forgiveness. The problem that comes from this is people saying that is allright and nothing is wrong with it. This leads us into not confessing our sins and admitting we were wrong. When we assert that we are right and the scriptures are wrong then there is a bigger problem in our lives than just a divorce. We are setting our flawed thought processes against the God breathed scriptures. I certainly would not want to be leading someone into sin and telling them that it wasn't sin the whole way down, but that's just me.

 

[JillLars]

What if saving the marriage is not an option? What if the options are Divorce? or be killed? Believe it or not, many times those are the only options, many abusers refuse to change, they refuse to get counseling, they refuse to do anything to save the marriage, or to keep their vows, what would you suggest people do in this situation?

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Honestly, I thought about that long and hard last night. I came to the conclusion that I would rather die being 100% certain that I was not sinning than live and be 100% that I was. To quote Paul "To live is Christ but to die is gain". Why all of this focusing on death? Death for a Christian is a glorious thing, we get to go home! I think that if you research it simple divorce in those situations is not enough though, you have to move away, get restraining orders, and sometimes even more than that. Why do you tack divorce onto the front of it, and where is the option to call the police and have this abuser put in jail? Wouldn't it be better to have the abuser locked up? You can do all the things necessary to protect yourself and your children without tacking divorce onto the issue.

 

[JillLars]

And just to point out, Jesus doesn't condemn divorce in the verses you speak of, he says that marrying another, except when the divorce was because of fornication, is committing adultery. Adultery is the sin Jesus speaks of, not divorce.

Mat 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

 

[JillLars]

Why do you tack divorce onto the front of it, and where is the option to call the police and have this abuser put in jail? Wouldn't it be better to have the abuser locked up? You can do all the things necessary to protect yourself and your children without tacking divorce onto the issue.

Mat 5:31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

This is why I am tacking divorce onto the issue, would you not consider moving away, and putting your spouse in jail "putting them away"? I think you are putting waaayy too much emphasis on the legalities here, you seem to think that "legal divorce" is the sin, when really that's not what its about. We may have to just agree to disagree on this issue, you have obviously never lived in an abusive home, and probably don't understand the gravity of the decisions families are faced with when it comes to this issue. I am not convinced that divorce is a sin, nothing in the bible addresses divorce as the sin, it addresses adultery as the sin (as mentioned above).

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I cannot in good faith agree to disagree, I feel that is a cop out. The Bible is clear

Matthew 19:3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
7 They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"
8 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

He states that divorce was only allowed due to the hardness of mens hearts and that from the beginning it was not that way. The pharisees could see that he was divorce is wrong, which is why the questioned him futher. Paul also comments on it as well

1 Corinthians 7: 10 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband
11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
12 But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.
13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.

Adultery is specific to marriage. So we can easilt reason out these scriptures, especially Matthew. A divorce for any reason except for adultery is not recognized by God, if it were then you would not be commiting adultery if you remarry. This is easy to see and is accurate with the Greek. So even if you go really liberal here and allow for divorce then you cannot allow for remarriage. However Christ said that it was not allowed in the beginning and the only reason it was ever allowed was because of the hardness of mens hearts.

How can you make assumptions of what I have lived through and been reedemed from? Just because I see things differently than you? That assumption is baseless and borders on offensive. I do understand the gravity of the situation, I just happen to be willing to put God's will above mine in all things. I fail at this sometimes but I strive for it.

 

[JillLars]

A divorce for any reason except for adultery is not recognized by God, if it were then you would not be commiting adultery if you remarry.

Now, you say above that a divorce for any reason besides adultery is not recognized by God, this I would initially agree with, but why is divorce recognized because of adultery and and not because of any other betrayal of the vows, and does a marriage end when someone committs adultery, or does it end when they legally divorce because of it?

However Christ said that it was not allowed in the beginning and the only reason it was ever allowed was because of the hardness of mens hearts.

To specify, if Christ says it wasn't ever allowed, then why is it allowed in cases of adultery? I hope you can understand my confusion.

How can you make assumptions of what I have lived through and been reedemed from? Just because I see things differently than you? That assumption is baseless and borders on offensive. I do understand the gravity of the situation, I just happen to be willing to put God's will above mine in all things. I fail at this sometimes but I strive for it.

I apologize if I offended you, I just find it hard to believe that it is God's will is for people to suffer at the hands of an abuser. If you have lived through a situation like that, then I apologize, but if you have not, then I fail to see how you can pass judgement on those who have.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I am not passing judgement. All I can do is state what the scriptures say and offer the legal options that we are allowed that fall short of divorce.

As for why adultery is the allowed reason for divorce, that one I can answer. When two people are married that are brought together as one flesh in the eyes of God. The theology of sex is such that it is theorized that this happens based on the act of sex. This is why sex outside of marriage is not permitted as well as adultery. Adultery dissolves that one flesh bond. Mind you this is mostly conjecture although there is some scripture to back it up but I would have to find it for you. This is taught by many theologians and makes sense when you look at the way things tend to work in concert with spiritual and physical. It is the one flesh bond that God recognizes and not the vows that we take, so if that is broken we have two options essentially: 1. Walk away or 2. pray that God will restore the bond between husband and wife. If you search my posts you will find that I do not tout divorce even for adultery save as a last resort.

 

[charligirl]

If we are going to look at this passage literally then women cannot divorce men ever as it only speaks of a man divorcing his wife. I understood that Jesus was addressing a situation where men were divorcing their wives on personal whims and told them this was not acceptable, adultery was the only reason you could divorce.

Having done a study of the word adultery, it is also used with regard to people breaking God's covenant... so it would then follow that breaking the marriage covenant would constitute adultery too. Physical abuse would be a breaking of the covenant.

With regard to God only recognising the 'one flesh' bond and not the vows I cannot accept this. With Abram, God made vows and the cutting of the covenant with the animals, was the sign to seal it. With Abraham God made vows and the sign of this so people would remember was circumcision. So the vows are vital and the act of cutting covenant seals the vows.

The spoken Word creates, words are powerful, when we speak vows we release power and create a covenant which is sealed by the act of sex.

 

[JillLars]

The theology of sex is very complicated, and I don't want to drag the thread too off topic talking about it.

Charligirl, I think you have a good point!

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I have to disagree with adultery being used in regards to other things outside of marriage. The word used in the New Testament is specific: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3429&version=kjv there is not another meaning for it. The Hebrew word http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05003&version=kjv has only one other meaning and that is relating to idolatry.

If God recognizes the vows then the we should never divroce. Marriage vows, at least none that I have heard, do not have the caveat of "if you keep your vows I will keep mine". The wifes swears her fealty to the husband and he does likewise to her. They are seperate vows taken in and of the person taking them. And most include 'til death do us part, this signifies the reality of marriage. I would say that if you are not willing to suffer anything and everything that a marriage could bring then do not get married in the first place. This is what Paul reccomends as well.

 

[JillLars]

Mat 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Notice Jesus does not use the word adultery when explaining the reason for a divorce, he uses the word fornication.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1074163836-6997.html#9

Even in the greek, Jesus uses the word for fornication, not the word for adultery, why is that?

From Easton's Bible Dictionary

Fornication: in every form of it was sternly condemned by the Mosaic law
But this word is more frequently used in a symbolical than in its ordinary sense. It frequently means a forsaking of God or a following after idols

 

[JillLars]

Marriage vows are taken together because when two people become one, both physically and spiritually, they take care of one another, and sleep with only one another. Now, you have explained how the physical bond can be broken by breaking the vow to sleep with only your spouse, so why then can't the spiritual bond be broken as well through disobeying the vows taken to love, honor and cherish one another. If two people can walk away because the physical bond is broken, then I fail to see why they are not allowed to walk away if the spiritual bond is broken as well. To be honest it saddens me to see women wishing that their husbands would cheat on them so that they can walk away from an abusive marriage. IMHO, that is taking the legalities of it too far.

 

[Micaiah]

What if saving the marriage is not an option? What if the options are Divorce? or be killed? Believe it or not, many times those are the only options, many abusers refuse to change, they refuse to get counseling, they refuse to do anything to save the marriage, or to keep their vows, what would you suggest people do in this situation?

If a persons life is threatened, they should take moves to protect themselves, including separation IMO.

It is not clear why you would need to divorce to save your life in those circumstances. If it is to enable a person to remarry, then that contradicts the teaching of Scripture.

 

[JillLars]

IMHO, if you have to worry about your spouse killing you then the marriage has already ended, legally divorced or not, the covenant has been broken. The bible says if you send away your spouse you are to give them a certificate of divorce, seperating without intending to get back together (why would you go back to someone who wants to kill you) is the equivalent of divorce, even if its not called that by the law.

 

[Micaiah]

Are you saying that breaking any of the vows made at the alter constitutes reason for divorce? That is not what Scripture says.

God joins two people together when they are married. The bond formed is for life and is not something that is dissolved by a human court. There are a number of verses in Scripture that make it clear God hates divorce.

Malachi 2:16
"For the LORD God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one's garment with violence," Says the LORD of hosts. "Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously."
(Whole Chapter: Malachi 2 In context: Malachi 2:15-17)